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Posted by Trip Tucker (Member # 297) on :

In the new TV Guide, Rick Berman is going to address whether or not there will be a gay crewman on Enterprise.
Who knows, maybe it might be one of the senior crew?
My vote's for Charlie Tucker, he is a cutie

Thoughts?

Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :

Don't...care...

Posted by Ryan McReynolds (Member # 28) on :

Then... why... comment...?

Seriously, as a straight-but-not-narrow man, I'm all for a gay main character, or at least a gay recurring character. There have now been, what, forty main characters (including Enterprise), so statistically, it's just about time for at least one non-straight to come around, even if they're bi.

Posted by MeGotBeer (Member # 411) on :

Will Riker was a homosexual.

It's quite painfully obvious to anyone who has ever watched Star Trek: The Next Generation.

Posted by Jack_Crusher (Member # 696) on :

Do you have paper work to back that up?

quote:
I'm the princess of Canada, but I can't back that up with paperwork. Dr. Evil on the Jerry Springer Show, from the deleted scenes from Austin Powers: The Spy Who Shagged Me

Posted by targetemployee (Member # 217) on :

Let me say this very carefully.
I am a proponet of homosexual rights. I would like to see a gay character in a sci-fi show.
However, I would not like to see a gay character in Star Trek. Star Trek is written by conservative men and women. Their views are shaped by the ideology of their beliefs. A gay character would be a cliched gay character. So, no, I don't want a gay character in Star Trek.

Posted by First of Two (Member # 16) on :

A gay character, added simply to HAVE a token gay character, will already BE a cliched character. Anything used to refer to the character's homosexuality will be cliched.

Se, that's the problem with this idea. There's not a whole lot of original ideas you can do about a gay character that aren't comedic.

With different races/creeds, generally all you need is to be SEEN, and people go 'oh, he's Patagonian. Cool.' But only rarely will stories revolve around a non-alien character's race, because humans are supposed to have progresed beyond that. 'Beyond the Farthest Stars' being a notable exception, but the only one I can think of. Further focus on a character's ethnic heritage runs the risk of becoming a 'Chekov joke' - "It vas inwented in RUSSIA!"

It's not worth creating a character JUST for a throwaway reference.

I can see it now...

"Lieutenant, these aliens live according to the Arisiotaelian Ideals."
"Aristotle was gay, you know."
"Oh, shut UP about it already!"

Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :

So basically, you're saying they'll turn him into Michael T.

Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :

Well, I don't think it'd be appropriate to have a 'gay character' for the reasons stated above - like having the character gay just for the sake of it. I think another main reason is that as they've stated before this still isn't the "perfect" Federation that we've seen in TOS and TNG eras... so it's like well we've never seen gay characters in the 'perfect' eras... but we'll see them in the still reaching perfection era... doesn't sound right to me.

Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :

quote:
In the new TV Guide, Rick Berman is going to address whether or not there will be a gay crewman on Enterprise.

Duh...just the fact that Berman is going to address this topic is proof enough for me that there WILL be a gay character.

How do I feel about it: One word: "Different?" (yes, the question mark is intentional).

If Berman is introducing a gay character simply because he thinks it's going to be different or innovative, then I have news for him. It's not. Just watch shows like Six Feet Under, Survivor, Big Brother, or even older shows like SOAP for that matter.

Honestly, I really don't care if there's a gay character in Star Trek. I would care more if he or she couldn't act, or on the flip side, OVERacts.

Mr. Berman, if you really want something different, create an alien character who considers the intake of food to be something not done in the presence of others, but has no compunction about shitting all over the mess hall's floors during lunchtime. Now THAT's different.

[ August 19, 2001: Message edited by: Dukhat ]

Posted by The Red Admiral (Member # 602) on :

I think many areas of the general makeup of the series 'Enterprise' is on shaky ground already - meaning, as a television enterprise (no pun intended) the creators are uncertain whether it will be a hit or a miss. This goes for any show really, only the ratings after the first season will tell if it is so. In this situation it might be a bit foolhardy to take a potential risk by a having a recurring gay role on a show which is such an important institution whose future depends heavily on early ratings. This is not necessarily how I believe it should be, just what I expect is the reality of the situation with the studios.

So I don't think there's any way there can be a gay character in the immediate future. Maybe in the second or third season (if the show's a success) one might be introduced if it is universally agreed upon.

But I 'think' I have to agree with targetemployee on this. In fact, my mind isn't totally made up because I do have concerns, however. But let's think about it for a minute...

There would be only one reason to introduce a gay character, and that would be the important and very relevant issue of pushing for gay equality etc. I'm all for it, but (and this is my opinion only, and I hope I do not upset anyone in saying this) is that I would prefer Star Trek to be not too in-your-face as far as being a soap box. I prefer the subtle allegories that have always been a strength, and gay allegories have been done very well in TNG and DS9 (Outcast, Rejoined), and there's always room for this type of story, but I don't think a recurring gay character would be the popular answer. One fears the camp cliche's, and precisely how interesting would it be for the majority when following the romantic adventures of this gay character? I am not homophobic, nor do I have any problem with homosexuals, I just fear Star Trek is not the suitable place to explore these issues in any depth. Star Trek is already a genre specific show, and although the characters are possibly the most important element, it is not a soap opera, and indeed, the heterosexual romantic relationship issues have in the past fallen short, and ended up being a little uninteresting to tell the truth. So I can't see how it would be any different in a gay environment.

But by the same token, I'm not adverse to simply 'having' a gay character in the cast, whether recurring or semi-recurring, ie to simply show them as an equal member of the crew, but that would be in a way a cop-out, because if you're not going to do anything meaningful with a gay character, then why have a gay character in the first place...?

This is a difficult issue, with plenty of room for further debate....

Posted by Vogon Poet (Member # 393) on :

Maybe Archer is gay. White Captain, Bald French Captain, Black Captain, Female Captain. . . Gay Captain? 8)

Posted by Obese Penguin (Member # 271) on :

My only problem with having a gay Character on Trek is that I'm betting it will turn out to be a stereotyped character, I'm sure they will have him speaking in a soft voice and make him some sarcastic twit who's first line once he enters the ship will be "Oh my god who was the interior designer"

That would be totally wrong , I also disagree with them just having some token gay character , if hes going to be a character I better see some development.

The bad part about Star Trek is that alot of the time these characters are all Stereotypes , I was reading some boards yesterday and came upon a post from a british trek fan who was wondering about which accent Lt. Reed will have , he pointed out that though England is a small country there are many distinct accents , he was hoping that this character didnt have some forced accent like Alex Siddig as Bashir who he says sounds more like a South African then a Englishman

Lee , I can see Archer being gay I mean the way he snaped at T'Pol , I'll expect a cat fight mid season , That maybe their ace in the hole incase of a ratings slump

[ August 19, 2001: Message edited by: Obese Penguin ]

Posted by The Red Admiral (Member # 602) on :

I can tell you, being English that Siddig El Fadil (a good old fashioned English name, lol), had a straight English accent, without any regional dialect. The guy IS English, and certainly there was no hint of South African.

But in England there are literally dozens and dozens of region accents, all distinctly different than the other. Although we all speak English, some people may find it hard to understand people from other cities/counties etc. The accents, dialect and slang are very thick and play a big part. But I guarantee that Reed will speak straight 'southern counties' English, (that which we call stright and un-accented, ie no regional accent).

Posted by Ryan McReynolds (Member # 28) on :

You know, the fact that there has to be a thread about people's opinions regarding a potential gay chartacter shows how important it may be to have one. Could you imagine someone posting a thread saying, "What if Enterprise has a black character?" or "What if Enterprise has a female character?" It's an intersting look at how far our species has to go before we can claim to be truly accepting. A gay character should be no more shocking (or worth mentioning) than a black character.

And in regards to Enterprise needing high ratings, shows like Will and Grace prove that even a total "gay show" can do well, and both Buffy and Xena show that the younger action fan set doesn't give a shit. Given that Star Trek fans generally pride themselves on being openminded anc culturally cutting-edge, I can't imagine Enterprise suffering from a single character, even if a few backwards individuals choose to balk.

So I say, yes, please give us a gay character on Star Trek. Not because it's socially revolutionary, not because it will be a good chance to explore complex issues regarding gay rights, but simply because gay people exist and after forty main characters it's time to see one. For that matter, a Middle Eastern character wouldn't hurt, either.

And all of this from a young white male from Texas.

Posted by Obese Penguin (Member # 271) on :

But God Forbid any Hispanic Characters.

Posted by Mr. Christopher (Member # 71) on :

What about Muniz? He was hispanic.

And how come none of the humans ever come from Canada, hmm? Or any country other than the US or the UK?

Posted by The Red Admiral (Member # 602) on :

Other than full US characters, there's been, from the major cast members:

Chekov - Russian
Sulu - Japanese/American
Scotty - Scottish
Picard - French
O'Brien - Irish
Bashir - English/Arabic
Kim - Japanese/American
Chakotay - Native American
Torres - Hispanic (with some Klingon)

Not many there really, and only Picard and Chekov one would suppose come from non-English speaking countries (with the exception of Torres whose whose hispanic origin wasn't really explored). There was also a Hispanic Ensign on TNG called Sonya Gomez, and several minor characters of different extractions. But it's a US TV series, made primarily for the US market, the rest of the world market is merely secondary.

Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :

Harry Kim was Korean-American.

Eddington was Canadian; ref. his line in "Blaze Of Glory"--"it's my 'lucky Loonie.' It's been in my family for generations."

Riker was Candaian to ben the waiter & Sam Lavelle, & Sam's grandpappy was Canadian.

Ted Koppel was Canadian. He got better.

"Dead or Canadian?"--topic on "Remote Control."

Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :

Dukhat: Bwwwaaaaahahahahahahaha!!!!

Posted by Identity Crisis (Member # 67) on :

Oh come on. Is this really a surprise to anyone?

When, a while back, I read in the show bible that "As previously revealed, Reed is also rather contradictory, shy around women and soft spoken despite his regulatory personality" my first thought was 'he's gay'. My second thought was 'what a cliched way to write a gay character'.

Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :

I just have to post this I've just got up to Dukhat's post on the first page - and well, I haven't laughed so hard in a long time. LOL! It's given me a saw head and jaw and I'm crying! LOL!

Andrew

Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :

Getting serious!?! again... Bashir/Sid was born in the Sudan... so he's going to have a bit of a slight accent. Presumably Bashir was of Arabic decent too. I wouldn't say "Muslim Character" cause well, the only religion we've seen in Trek has been the Bajoran Faith.

Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :

Nella Darren (Picard's love intrest in "Lessons") is an Australian actress, so one would assume that she is Australian!

Posted by Stingray (Member # 621) on :

quote:
Finally, in keeping with the attempt to present a more 'out there' look at the cosmos, TV guide revealed that one of the male crew is set to become pregnant. Connor Trinneer (Charlie Tucker) said that his character would experience the "first human male pregnancy" in an episode that he described as "very funny."

There it is, folks. Enjoy.

Here's the links for you skeptics. Be warned, Trek X spoilers at the bottom.

http://www.trektoday.com/news/200801_02.shtml

[ August 20, 2001: Message edited by: Stingray ]

Posted by Michael_T (Member # 144) on :

I just read the TV Guide article myself...after passing out from seeing what happend to the First Contact spacesuits. Anyway... I really don't know if there should be a gay/lesbian character on Star Trek. Personally I would like to see one just as long as there is a good storyline for him/her being there. Oh, before I forget, if anyone thinks I fall into the typical gay stereotype, I do and I don't and that's the kind of character I would want to see on Star Trek: someone who would hate the ship interiors with a passion and someone who would be as interesting as Garak.

[ August 20, 2001: Message edited by: Michael_T ]

Posted by The Red Admiral (Member # 602) on :

Now I immediately recognised Garak as possibly being gay, but it was never developed, or confirmed. I think in many ways that was a good idea, because after all, Garak had an abyss of secrets from all facets of his life, and that in my opinion made him one of the most fascinating characters ever seen in Trek.

Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :

Why does everyone always talk about potential gay Trek characters like they have to be male? Who's to say they won't stick a lesbian in somewhere? (This, of course, is not counting the bis in the mirror universe on DS9.)

Actually, a lesbian character would be the most beneficial to the producers. The "gay community" is happy because there's a gay character, and all the fanboys start to tune in every week so they can masturbate to the ships and the lesbians...

Posted by Wes1701E (Member # 212) on :

TSN made the post I was gonna make. and whats wrong with liking a bit of lesbian action.. err um....

Posted by Wes1701E (Member # 212) on :

this lesbians would have to be the long-hair big breasted "im just experimenting" type right??...

not ellen degeneres

Posted by Vogon Poet (Member # 393) on :

As regards Reed's accent, it's plain from the trailers that he speaks in that fake English accent which Americans think we all speak in. The one that Liz Hurley does (yes, she is putting it on).

Posted by Wes1701E (Member # 212) on :

LOL Dukhat.

Posted by Stingray (Member # 621) on :

Ya know, I've been to England, I've heard real English people talk. And the fake stuff and the real stuff seem pretty close. You'd probably say the same thing about Britons faking American accents. And most of them (stage anyway) are pretty damn bad.

Posted by Quatre Winner (Member # 464) on :

As a gay male, I could NOT care one bit if there is or isn't a gay character in Enterprise. It's not important.

QRW.

Posted by Michael_T (Member # 144) on :

You may not but from what I can tell, the Gay and Lesbian community wants one on. I think they did try to blow Garak out of the closet during DS9's run.

Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :

So the gay & lesbian community is dictating terms to Star Trek & Rick Berman? If that's the case, I wish the gay & lesbian community would tell him to design a more original looking ship.

[ August 22, 2001: Message edited by: Dukhat ]

Posted by Vogon Poet (Member # 393) on :

*shudders at what the gay & lesbian community might consider an original design*

Posted by This space for rent, 810-553-2676 (Member # 417) on :

The big thing is the focus on any particular character, they haven't overplayed the black or pointy eared ones, so don't go through and froce a bunch of crappy acting on now.

Maybe a gay vulcan, or worse, Horta.....

Posted by The Red Admiral (Member # 602) on :

A gay Horta, now there's a picture...

But I have to speak up and say it would be wrong to just 'introduce' two atrractive lesbian characters simply for the fanboys. I for one, being completely straight and being all for gay rights have no interest whatsover in lesbians and their sexual activities. They could be blond and beautifual or whateer, but the mere act of them kissing and getting down to it does not appeal to all straight men. Besides, if they are to do a gay character, be it male or female it should be for the right reasons.

Posted by Treknophyle (Member # 509) on :

"Lieutenant, these aliens live according to the Arisiotaelian Ideals."
"Aristotle was gay, you know."
"Oh, shut UP about it already!"

LOL

Seriously, a gay character sounds great - in fact, I hope that they pay attention to the actual percentage of gays in the general population (estimated at 10%) [http://www.sexualitybytes.ninemsn.com.au/adult/sexuality/Percentage.asp]. In a ship of 100+ persons, we should have at least 10 gay crewmen. Having just one makes him 'token'. Having 10 or more would make them a part of society.

Also seriously, they could make GREAT strides by totally eliminating that 'accent' - you know the one - Jack Truman uses it on Will & Grace. I had a friend who came out - and started using it. I had to remind him that 'I knew him when' - and that he was aiding a stereotype ("please use your Westcoast Canadian accent when around me, okay? Gay is a lifestyle, not a speech impediment"). Sure enough, he could turn it off and on like a lightbulb.

If they can keep from using OGSB (obviously gay stereotype behavious) on the show, Enterprise could conceivably go far in aiding the acceptance of gays in primetime - not as a gag or theme, but as a simply accepted 'of course'.

Posted by Spike (Member # 322) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Ryan McReynolds:
and both Buffy and Xena show that the younger action fan set doesn't give a shit.

Who's gay in Xena?

Posted by Stingray (Member # 621) on :

Xena. der.

Posted by Ryan McReynolds (Member # 28) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Spike:
Who's gay in Xena?

I've never watched it, so I wouldn't know any names, but isn't her sidekick supposed to be a lesbian? My girlfriend used to watch it, and she tells me that Xena and Gabrielle, while both have been with guys, have kissed and dreamed about having sex with each other. Sounds like they're at least bi to me. Point remains: gay characters don't hurt ratings.

Posted by Ryan McReynolds (Member # 28) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Michael_T:
You may not but from what I can tell, the Gay and Lesbian community wants one on. I think they did try to blow Garak out of the closet during DS9's run.

You can't really blame them, since Andy Robinson intentionally played him as bi. He even wrote it into his Garak biography novel, A Stitch in Time.

If you really want to know exactly what involvement the gay community has had in trying to get a gay character, see this webpage.

Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :

There were straight characters on Xena?

Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :

Oddly enough, up until the whole Ziyal thing, I never thought of Garak as straight, gay, or bi. He seemed to me like someone who just doesn't have sex...

Posted by Stingray (Member # 621) on :

Ya, I never thought of him as sexual in any context really. I just thought of him as, 'plain and simple Garak.'

Posted by TheF0rce (Member # 533) on :

me too....i had no thoughts about garak's sexual preferences

the only "gay" characters on DS9 seem to be weyon and the vorta...some would argue kira too.

jadzia was not gay...it was just the feelings of dax that overided her's

Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :

I highly doubt the Vorta are gifted with any sense of sexuality.

Personally, I wouldn't mind a gay character, as long as they don't overact it. But I think Star Trek so far has never overacted it (apart possibly from "The Emperor's New Cloak").

Posted by TheF0rce (Member # 533) on :

Who knows...maybe the vorta do have sexuality for strategic purposes.

Even if vortas are all cloned or engineered.

Why else bothering having male and female vorta...?
Unless its just for "looks" as to decieve races that meet them for the first time.

[ August 25, 2001: Message edited by: TheF0rce ]

Posted by Stingray (Member # 621) on :

Well, it remains a mystery.

For all we know, the Vorta could be gluttonous, alcoholic, sex-maniacs.

(god I LOVE DS9)

Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :

Sex can be an effective tool of diplomacy...

I said tool.

Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :

Huh-huh. Huh. Huh-huh.