quote:
Scene 232
"Twenty or so other Klingons stand below them, including numerous armed guards. Most are Klingons as we've seen them but a few appear completely HUMAN."
Could it be that, even if there's no discussion, there are going to be original-series Klingons in Enterprise afterall? Sure seems like it to me... at least as of May 11. Maybe they changed their minds since then. It's a shame if they did.
[ September 06, 2001: Message edited by: Ryan McReynolds ]
I'd love just leaving it at 'We don't like to discuss it' but then they go and make a prequel
Timo Saloniemi
quote:
Originally posted by Timo:
So where's this final draft script to be read?
Boris Skrbic sent me my copy. It's a PDF, heavily annotated by "The Facer." Most of the commentary is negative, of the lame "Berman and Braga suck" variety rather than something useful... but, it is the May 11 final draft, and as far as I can see it's genuine. I have the May 1 plain-text version as well, and the differences are relatively minor, as one would expect from a final draft. However, there are some major changes, most notably...
BIG SPOILERS CAPTAINMIKE!
...T'Pol making out with Tucker in the decon chamber. Seriously. After Tucker says that Vulcans are predictable in the May 1 draft, the May 11 draft continues...
quote:
T'Pol stares at Tucker enigmatically.T'POL: You consider us predictable?
Without warning T'Pol embraces Charlie and KISSES him hard on the mouth. He struggles, startled at her strength - she's almost crushing him! - then CHARLIE RESPONDS.
And from there it continues as normal with Archer waking up. It makes Charlie's glance at T'Pol when Archer asks him what they've been doing in the next scene make more sense. At the same time, there is no further discussion and no ultimate explanation or closure to the issue. It may, in fact, be a fabrication by The Facer or someone else, as may be the human/Klingon thing. Who knows? Given that the rest seems accurate, I'm assuming it's all real until I have reason not to.
Soon, it became forbidden or taboo to do so... or something.
quote:
Hey, guys, let's make the Klingon first contact date 67 years earlier than what was canonically said before!"
Please not again. I think there are now at least 10 posts where people explain what McCoy really said.
quote:
Originally posted by Spike:
Please not again. I think there are now at least 10 posts where people explain what McCoy really said.
Here's one more, just to be sure:
In "Day of the Dove" (TOS), set in 2268, it was said that there had been fifty years of hostilities with the Klingons. No mention of when first contact was.
In Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country, set in 2293, it was said that there had been seventy years of hostilities with the Klingons. No mention of when first contact was.
In "First Contact" (TNG), it was said that first contact with the Klingons was centuries prior. That episode was set in the 2360s... so first contact, canonically, was prior to the 2160s. Enterprise is set in 2151, so it fits perfectly with the only canon reference to first contact with the Klingons.
Pull the anal probe out and get a life.
The U.S. and the U.S.S.R. had "hostilities" from WWII until the end of the Cold War.
There were "hostilities" before World War II, but there weren't any hostilities (to speak of) during the War.
However, to say that the U.S. and the U.S.S.R. were best buddies before WWII would be inaccurate.
No matter what you hear, you always try to think up a new way for it being 'inaccruate'. Well sir, you need a life. And yes, I'm known to say it alot, but this time I'm serious. Shut the fuck up and play else where little boy.
The story was about several "subject planets" who decide to rebel and withdraw from the Klingon Empire. One of these planets had an old Klingon Battlecruiser...
I answered the whole bumpy/smooth issue as follows, when the commander of a rogue Klingon battlecruiser is brought aboard the Enterprise...
INT. ENTERPRISE - TRANSPORTER ROOM (OPTICAL)
Worf, still in dress uniform, watches the transporter as COMMANDER KAGH materializes. Kagh wears a klingon-esque uniform. Worf's expression sours.
WORF
(under his breath)
tlhInganqoq.
KAGH
Is it Starfleet protocol to greet
representatives of foreign governments
with curses?
Worf takes a step towards Kagh. They size each other up.
KAGH
(smooth but insulting)
A Klingon in Starfleet. How the mighty
have fallen.
WORF
You dare to wear the traditional uniform
of the cha'DIch tlhIngan? You are
forbidden to wear the uniform or use the
name.
KAGH
And what are you to tell us who we are
and what name we may use?
WORF
When you were stripped of warrior status
you lost your fleet as well. How did you
get a warship?
KAGH
You did not manage to confiscate all our
weapons, Klingon. We have hidden away
many such things.
(he smiles insultingly)
But enough of this amusing banter.
Where is your commander?
In a later scene, Kagh explained something of his history to Picard and Co.:
KAGH
In the case of my people, the
Klingons simply seized control
of our system. At first they
found us useful... made us warriors.
We were the cha'DIch tlhIngan,
the "Second Klingons."
Worf gets a disgusted expression on his face at that.
KAGH
(oily smile at Picard)
We fought many battles... some
with your Starfleet.
(glares at Worf)
Later, the Klingons turned on us.
We did nothing to deserve this.
WORF
Nothing? You established relations
with the Romulans and gave them
advanced warp technology!
KAGH
And the Empire profited, because in
return we obtained the secret to the
Romulan cloaking device!
...At which point Riker interrupted...
So, my idea was that "Klingon" was a caste name...that anyone who is a warrior of that culture is Klingon, and a certain group of swarthy bushy eyebrowed humanoids were once that, but they screwed up in the eyes of their superiors and were "demoted" to subject status.
By a quirk of bad luck, I submitted my script right after the time that "Sins of the Father" was in production, and that script went in different directions than mine, especially where Klingon history was concerned. 
They could go this way on Enterprise...except that they brought back TOS Klingons on DS9 and made them bumpy, so that screwed that up.
[ September 08, 2001: Message edited by: mrneutron ]
http://www.wunderground.com/US/NE/Broken_Bow.html
Mark
quote:
So, my idea was that "Klingon" was a caste name...that anyone who is a warrior of that culture is Klingon, and a certain group of swarthy bushy eyebrowed humanoids were once that, but they screwed up in the eyes of their superiors and were "demoted" to subject status.
There was a Star Trek: Phase II script which had this as its essential premise. "Klingon" was not the race name, but the name of the warrior caste of the species. It's really too bad this episode was never translated as a TNG or DS9 script, because a race entirely of warriors is a bit hard to accept (and seems to be refuted in "RoE" -- I think that was the title -- when the Klingon prosecutor, describing the Klingons allegedly killed by Worf, lists "poets, children, students..." etcetra, instead of lumping them all as "warriors")
Oh well. I guess we should consider ourselves supremely lucky that the Klingon didn't crash in Montana...
(Where the wind comes sweeping down the plain.)
(And, incidentally, the waving wheat can sure smell sweet.)
quote:
Originally posted by MeGotBeer:There was a Star Trek: Phase II script which had this as its essential premise. "Klingon" was not the race name, but the name of the warrior caste of the species...a race entirely of warriors is a bit hard to accept."
"Kitumba", by John Merideth Lucas. I read about that. Anyway, the script I wrote materialized in part because of a line (I'm forgetting who uttered it) that said that every Klingon wishes to die in battle. Which got me thinking...do Klingon nursemaids and carpenters want to die in battle? And if you take it at face value, and you have an entire civilization of Warriors, who does the unglamorous work of building ships and making blood pies? So, the idea I had was that as the Klingon Empire grew in power, they subjugated various worlds and made THEM do all the infrastructure stuff, and thus all the "Klingons" became warriors...their whole race became the "caste".
That was a mechanism I used to explore what these Empires would have to be like. That there are usually other civilizations under the thumb of the Imperial power, and how does the Federation justify allying itself with a nation that would conquer, exploit and perhaps destroy entire cultures.
quote:
who does the unglamorous work of building ships and making blood pies
Dennis Bailey ("Tin Man", "First Contact" - the ep, not the movie) pitched a treatment about a ship designed by the Klingons. It was a garbage scow, essentially designed to "clean up" the Empire -- literally. Except the Klingons programmed it a bit too well, and it went off to start a war with the Federation. It was a bit more complex then that, of course, and it wasn't as corny as it sounds ...
:One upon a time, there were two sub-species of Klingons. The dominant race had ridges on their foreheads. In the other race (a surpressed minority on the Homeworld), the genes responsible for the ridges, were dormant, and so this group of Klingons was distinguished by smooth heads.
Around 2218, an influential family of smooth Klingons seized control of the Empire. A harsh, dictatorial and dis-honourable new government was formed, which fought long wars with the Federation. The Faith of Kahless was outlawed. The smooth Klingons were known to be ferocious killers, completely different from the 24th century honourable warriors.
Ridged Klingons were sent to prison camps. The only hope of survival for them was to alter their appearance. Today, Klingons are reluctant to admit that they once were dishounorable smooth Klingons.
In the late 2260s, the smooth Klingon dictatorship was overthrown. The smooth Klingons were either slain or genetically altered to have ridges. The new ridged Klingon government quickly realized that their relations with the Federation had deteriorated, and was quick to start the negotiations that led to the Khitomer Accords.
And that's about it.
[ September 10, 2001: Message edited by: Harry ]
Once the flatheaded madman is gone, some people react to their former submissive cowardice with such shame that they immediately restore their ridges, or then commit suicide. Some never changed their ridges in the first place, and can use their stubbornness as leverage for power now that the flathead has been deposed of. In very short order, the society is ridged again, or at least the smoothbrows are in a subjugated position, out of sight.
Timo Saloniemi
Klingons genetically altered their foreheads after contact with the Federation. They later realized this was stupid, and stopped.
and it still burns when they pee
This is, of course, somewhat out of date because we now know that the rumpled foreheads were the original klingon look.