First of all, yes, Siegfried is back after spending about five days in final examination hell. One exam left and then I'm free for a month.
Anyway, here's a link to a recent story at TrekWeb: click here.
It's the summary of a scene from the episode "Sleeping Dogs," which is supposed to be either the second or third of the new-run episodes of 2002. A couple things about the spoiler information in the article...
First, the script is saying the crew encounters a Klingon Raptor. A we going to see a new Klingon ship? I certainly hope so, but there's no other information available about it. Reed mentions that this particular vessel is of strategic military importance. I can't wait to see more information about this come out as the episode premiere date approaches.
Second, we're going to hear about the Orions. Whatever disease is being spread about the Klingon Raptor, the Klingon Captain (via his log entries) suspects that the Orions infected them with it. It would seem that Earth also isn't yet familiar with the Orions since Reed and Tucker don't seem to be familiar with the species.
Posted by Spike (Member # 322) on :
quote:A we going to see a new Klingon ship?
Yes, here's the first picture of the new ship:
Posted by Siegfried (Member # 29) on :
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Actually, shrink it down by quite a bit, remove all the surface details, and you have a kind of nice upswung scoutish looking thing.
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
"Bu'kaH: When the birds of prey I've called arrive, your people will die. All of them." (from [URL=http://www.trekzone.de/cgi-bin/tzn/nph-tzn.cgi?name=dt&file=home#01120924228 ]here[/URL] )
Great, now the Klingons have warbirds, battlecruisers, raptors *and* birds of prey!
"Bu'kaH: We raided an Orion outpost. We took slave girls for the men... and some whiskey."
Slave girls! Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
quote:Originally posted by Sol System: Actually, shrink it down by quite a bit, remove all the surface details, and you have a kind of nice upswung scoutish looking thing.
You mean give it the Akiraprise treatment? Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
As that would involve designing a new ship that looked like the old, no.
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
quote:You mean give it the Akiraprise treatment?
I think that was the point Spike was making with his pic.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
I think Simon was implying that the "Akiraprise treatment" involves creating a ship from scratch, but making it look like another ship.
What he was suggesting about the Vor'cha was taking the same ship and just removing the details. More of a "reverse-K't'inga treatment".
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
It's sounds like we're internal decorators...
"Yes...I think I'd like the two story effect...and give the walls a nice Akira treatment, hmm?"
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Uh...that should be interior...not internal. Wow.
Posted by Jack_Crusher (Member # 696) on :
actually, that ship looks alot like a vor'cha class BOP, like the ones seen in "End Game".
Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
Are you kidding Jack?
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jack_Crusher: actually, that ship looks alot like a vor'cha class BOP, like the ones seen in "End Game".
Err...what?
I confused.
-MMoM Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
There's something else to speculate on in that spoiler snippet, too. The Klingons here respond to an uprising - is this "Xarantine" a Klingon conquest, perhaps, so that Klingons would be concerned about an uprising there? And what does it spell when the Klingons are defeated there by a superior enemy? They come in a starship to quell a riot on an already conquered planet, and have to retreat? Perhaps the ENT-era Klingons aren't that superior after all...
What
Posted by Vogon Poet (Member # 393) on :
*decorates internally, with muesli*
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
quote:actually, that ship looks alot like a vor'cha class BOP, like the ones seen in "End Game".
OK. As nicely as I can, I will explain some things to you.
1. The Vor'cha class is a battlecruiser, not a BoP.
2. The Vor'cha class was not seen in "Endgame." Those were Negh'var/Voodieh class ships.
3. Since Spike's joke obviously went over your head, suffice it to say that that pic IS a Vor'cha, turned upside down. The point of Spike's joke (and correct me if I'm wrong, Spike) was that since the NX-01 looks like an Akira with the nacelles pointed upward, so this new ship will look like a 24th century Klingon ship with the nacelles pointed upward.
There, I'm finished.
Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
very nice.. i was wondering who would explain this one..
by the way, Vor'Cha is an attack cruiser, not a battle-cruiser.
But it sure as hell isnt a Bird of Prey.. those are much smaller vessels
StupidFan47: But Mike, the DS9 Tech manual says that the upsized BOP is 10 times the size of the other ships, with a crew of 1,500.
*uses phaser to rearrange StupinFan47's grey matter**uses DS9 TechManual as silencer*
where were we?
Posted by targetemployee (Member # 217) on :
Captain Mike,
In one of the last episodes of DS9, Gowron in a conference with other Klingon 'generals', for a better word, called the Vor'Cha Class ships, "battlecruisers". IOW, canon says Vor'Cha are battlecruisers, not attack cruisers.
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
So? Worf said in "Way of the Warrior" that it *was* a Vor'Cha class attack cruiser. And has been doing so as far back as the fourth season of TNG (the one where Geordi got brainwashed), when he called it an attack cruiser (no name).
So, either Martok was gaffing, or perhaps there was a variant of the Vor'Cha that was classified as a battlecruiser. Or Klingons called 'em battlecruisers and Starfleet calls 'em Attack Cruisers. Or the Vor'Cha could be called either interchangeably. Who knows?
Mark
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
So what's the real-world story behind these designations?
In WWII terms, a "battlecruiser" is called that because it's a hybrid between "battleship" and "cruiser" - it has the mission and armament of the former, or at least aspires to this, while it's only protected by the feeble armor of the latter. And while the words "battleship" and "cruiser" have their own complex origins, they are refreshingly logical and descriptive: a battleship is a ship that does not shy away from battle with its peers, while a cruiser is a vessel that would prefer to cruise around, hunting for easy targets or relaying targeting information, and not engage in battle against other warships unless numerically superior. A battlecruiser then is a cruiser that boldly goes to battle (think Steven Seagal's "combat chef" roles for a similar contradiction in terms).
"Attack cruiser" doesn't sound as if it could be such a hybrid between two established ship types, a cruiser and an "attack-something" - mainly because there is no established type known as "attack-something". It sounds more like a simple alternate spelling for "battlecruiser", and would probably be identical to one.
"Strike cruiser", however, has historical origins. In practice, I think it's a cruiser that doesn't have the battleship-like armament of a battlecruiser, but nevertheless is sent out to engage enemy capital ships in a more or less suicidal manner. That is, a cruiser becomes a strike cruiser when the captain receives new orders and kisses his ass goodbye. One could say that the Klingon attack cruiser is closer to this in concept than to a battlecruiser, considering that it has not demonstrated tactical or technological superiority to what the Feds consider a mere "heavy cruiser" (say, Ambassador).
Or one could pull out of the discussion before it turns into yet another Trek ship designation argument...
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by Austin Powers (Member # 250) on :
Err, Dukhat, I haven't seen "Endgame" yet, but didn't you think of "All good things"? Were there really Voodieh/k class ships in "Endgame" too?
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
Yes, there were Voodieh class ships in both "All Good Things..." and "Endgame." I'm sorry if I spoiled that for you. I was under the impression that everyone has seen "Endgame" by now.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Yes, but what does that have to do with the thread topic?
Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
Well the aliens who wore those masks in ST:TMP were Zaranites, not Xaranites. And that pic is of a character from ST:IV who is wearing a Zaranite mask but doesnt have Zaranite makeup on (i.e. a huge bulbous forehead).. it seems like it is also possible that there is a supplier of facemasks in the Federation that sold facemasks to both the Zaranties and whoever else this is, .. seems more likely then there being to wildly different looking Zaranites in my opinion
Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
what the hell does this have to do with sleeping dogs anyway?
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
The newest ST:The Magazine has a picture of a pre-TOS Klingon ship which, from what I've heard, was apparently supposed to be the Klingon ship seen in "Unexpected," but wasn't used because they couldn't CGI it in time, or something. Of course I don't know the veracity of this info, but if I get the copy, I'll scan the pic & email it to someone to post here.
Oops...it's not ST:The Magazine, it's ST Communicator. And the pic is only a drawing. And I must say that the ship didn't look much like a 22nd century ship anyway.
Some more info: According to the Communicator, the Vulcan ship Ti'Muur is indeed a Suurok-class ship, not a Surak-class.
Also, The Magazine will finally have an article about the Freedom & Niagara class ships in next month's issue, although the Fact Files had this information for years. I'm curious as to just what, if any, new info we will get from the article.
[ January 08, 2002: Message edited by: Dukhat ]
Posted by Austin Powers (Member # 250) on :
Dukhat, thanx for the info. No, you didn't spoil Endgame for me, rather the contrary. I like spoiler information. You know, I'm one of those sad-acts not living in the U.S. or the U.K. and therefor won't be able to see Endgame anytime soon. Actually, it might still be months before SAT1 will air the show here in Germany. Posted by Seven Of Nine (Member # 633) on :
quote:Originally posted by Sol System: Actually, shrink it down by quite a bit, remove all the surface details, and you have a kind of nice upswung scoutish looking thing.
heheh Posted by Siegfried (Member # 29) on :
$$$ Spoilers for the Preview for "Sleeping Dogs"
I need to hunt down and download a copy of the "Sleeping Dogs" promo that aired tonight. My eyes might be deceiving me, but I think that we are going to see to a new design for a Klingon ship.
Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :
Yup... new scout ship. I've gotten my hands on an .mov file from http://www.outpost6.com but I can't grab from that too easily. Best I can describe it is as a cross between a BoP and a Vor'cha.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Well, I managed to take one shot of it, but I don't have a place to put it online...
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
[ January 24, 2002: Message edited by: Harry ]
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
Not a very animal-looking ship, this one. The wings are quite unlike bird wings, the bow is an angular monstrosity quite unlike a head, and the posture doesn't indicate crouching for attack or speeding through air or anything. Well, at least the wings have feather patterns.
No obvious weapon ports, although the bow has lots of greeblings. Is that an honest window there, instead of a forward viewscreen? The warp nacelles aren't very Klingonlike - the Jem'Hadar might sue for copyright (and then you die).
The targ is nowhere as cute as the "Where No One" version (let alone Molly's dolly), but a nice touch anyway. Are those kept for food, as pets, for hunting, for guarding...?
The cook must be out of uniform - we can barely see the cleavage. And Hoshi, Reed and T'Pol have mastered the fine art of sitting up when unconscious, later demonstrated by Kirk and pals in "Spock's Brain" (and pioneered by Mr Bean in "The Ultimate Disaster Movie"). Is that underwear regulation color? Shouldn't Reed wear red?
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
They're not quite unconscious... they're in the decon chamber, trying hard to sit in the pose the director told them to sit in.
Oh, yeah. The sickbay screenshot with the Klingon woman. Is that a gun, and if so, one we have seen before?
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
It looks like the business end of the standard ENT plasma rifle, which we have seen before a few times. And that is a modification of the Jem'Hadar rifle, which we saw quite a few times, too. And THAT was modified from the Hunter rifle of DS9 "Captive Pursuit", which in turn was built on a weapon used in a variety of TNG eps.
Frankly, the current version looks like a glue gun to me.
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by Vogon Poet (Member # 393) on :
I've already tried my hand at diagramming the rifle, based on the Jem'Hadar one:
. . . although for some reason I missed the forward pistol grip. Problem is, I didn't have a lot to work with when I did it as we'd never seen it very clearly (see my page http://www.leenet.demon.co.uk/phaser/2150/class3.htm for an idea of the available images I had at the time). I now have some more images to add to the page (including these ones, if that's OK?), when I get round to it. . .
Posted by Grokca (Member # 722) on :
quote:Frankly, the current version looks like a glue gun to me.
I thought it looked like a grease gun. I like that ship.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Regarding the "cuteness" of the targ... Perhaps they're more like dogs than we'd think. Look at the variation between, say, a Chihuahua and a great Dane. Or a Doberman pinscher and a shih tzu.
[ January 24, 2002: Message edited by: TSN ]
Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :
...or those beasties on the Klingon ship aren't Targs. Maybe more closely-related to Kruge's little K'orthos in TSFS.
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
Or Kruge's beast was also a Targ, going with the dog-theory.
Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :
At the risk of turning this post into another starship thread, it looks like Eaves' cable-stayed motif has indeed cropped up on this scout (you can see the cables in the close-up of the aft end). I wonder if the battlecruiser design from the magazine will also turn up?
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
Hopefully, since at least it would help tie together this design and the other known Klingon vessels. So far, the similarity isn't that striking.
On the same vein, perhaps we could also see the evolutionary steps that led to the classic Klingon Bird of Prey, again a design that was quite dissimilar from the previously established Klingon vessels. Something with inboard warp engines and wingtip weapons, at least.
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
We can pretend that the D7 from Unexpected was actually the cable design if we squint. I know Bernd wants to join me in this one
Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :
A little birdie has told me that the Sleeping Dogs script refers to those little fellas as Targs. I guess production design decided to go with the many breeds of dogs theory.
Posted by Ryan McReynolds (Member # 28) on :
They look like targs to me... television-budget CGI targs, but nothing blatantly different from the original.
![[Frown]](frown.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
