This isn't another bash thread, but it will probably get shut down, like all of mine do...
People have flaming each other because of first contact with Klingons and Ferengi early, and why it is named Enterprise. This is something we hear about all the time... it's classified. They found that Klingons and the Raptor in 2151, but becuase of security or some such the didn't *offically* record first contact until 2218. Like important matters of the Federation are classified below the rank of Admiral. Another theory of why the Vulcans wasn't logical was they haven't became totally seaparate from the Romulans yet. Some people belived Surak and became 'logical' but later the concept became popular and turned in to the 'present day' Vulcans. The problem with Phlox being a Denobluan (sp.) was that they was against the Romulan Wars and dropped out and became isolationists.
It's all a theory. So if you don't like it don't belive it. No flaming please.
[ May 22, 2002, 17:24: Message edited by: The Defiant ]
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Yes, all the billions of threads you've started that have been locked.
Or is that number more like zero?
At any rate, your theory doesn't seem objectionable in itself. But it does seem rather useless.
Posted by Krenim (Member # 22) on :
I've been trying to come up with a good response to this for a while now, and I just keep failing. To make it short and sweet, there's not much we can nail down for absolute certainty until the Temporal Cold War arc is brought to an end (which might not be until the end of the show). Depending on if the Temporal Cold War is a predestination paradox (or not), it could be used to explain everything (or not).
Posted by Mucus (Member # 24) on :
It is an interesting thought though, unless the whole development of the Mark 5 (Warp 5?) engine is a complete departure from what "should have happened", even without the Suliban-Klingon chase, why would humans be sitting around on their ass with a working warp drive for several decades delaying first contact with the Klingons for 67 years (going by Defiant's numbers) which were only a few days of travel away?
Could the Vulcans really have convinced humans to stay for that long in the "real timeline"? And how do the Daedalous and other pre-1701 starships fit into this?
Posted by The Defiant (Member # 818) on :
Well, it's a possibility that the Suliban cleared the Enterprise's memory banks. No, that's not it. Dang. Oh, Oh, I know. They witheld the technology because, uh, the people of Earth were accostomed to Dadelii technology and it would mess up their 'classification' thing if they put NX 01 advanced technology on the Dadelii. Nope. Anyone care to give their two cent's on that? Boy, talk about a catch 22...
[ May 22, 2002, 18:25: Message edited by: The Defiant ]
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
What's the point, though? Why what isn't in the future? What exactly are you getting at?
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Well, none of the things mentioned are actual continuity violations, so explaining them away in this manner is unnecessary. And, besides, I find it hard to believe that the Enterprise could have been classified. Remember that the crew was making special appearances for classrooms and such. Obviously, the ENT's explorations are a big deal back on Earth, so there will be plenty of records of the ship.
And what exactly is the "problem" w/ Phlox' being Denobulan?
Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :
One thing that still gets me is that people still obsess over the whole 2218 thing. I mean, as soon as I read that, I know that the whole argument that they're about to lay out about how "Enterprise never happened" is going to be of AICN Talkback grade.
Posted by The Defiant (Member # 818) on :
quote: It is an interesting thought though, unless the whole development of the Mark 5 (Warp 5?) engine is a complete departure from what "should have happened".
It may point to a recalibration of the warp scale, like it did in The Voyage Home, I think. It would be nice if B&B departed from a whole Temporal Cold War thing. Whlie it sounds cool, they could throw in a little bit about how the NX01's engines passed Warp 5, however briefly, later in the show, and found out gradually that the Warp Scale was innacurate. The argument is that Vulcans gave them the Warp Scale, while an illogical act acually saved a ship from destruction, and led to a recalibration befor the Great Experiment was cancelled. And a drunk old man invented Warp Drive for money, and gave hope to Earth. Now that's not logical.
[ May 23, 2002, 06:21: Message edited by: The Defiant ]
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
I don't believe this. Are we really going to do this again? People are trying to discuss your topic. They don't all agree with you. That's ok. That's what having a discussion is about.
The issue with Phlox is that Denobulans have never been mentioned before...so we have no way of knowing what their politics or any thing else is like. There's no continuity problem with having a new species on Enterprise. I think what you were trying to say is that it's odd we never heard of Denobulans in the series that take place at a later time. While Denobulans becomming isolationists and wanting nothing more to do with Earth is one possibility...keep in mind, we've only seen a tiny little fraction of the total crews in Starfleet. So we may very well just never have run into any more Denobulans.
Discussion does not equal flaming. It's kind of the whole point of coming here.
Posted by The Defiant (Member # 818) on :
quote:Originally posted by TSN: Well remember that the crew was making special appearances for classrooms and such.
Well, it could have been that the Terrans were mislead and that it was an entirley different ship, probably without Warp 5 engines. They could of had strict orders from Starfleet to not to reveal Warp 5 capability. But thats a theory.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Don't edit your posts after people respond to them to completely change what you said...
Posted by koy'peled Oy'tio (Member # 796) on :
Um…some information, assuming that the novels are accurate to the trek universe. The Romulan’s departed Vulcan millennia ago, when they brought in the logical era and in the time of Surak, so in actual fact they are completely separated from Romulan. And you definitely need some editing help not to flame you or anything *coughs and say's Moron under breath*
Quote: by The Defiant This isn't another bash thread, but it will probably get shut down, like all of mine do... (pointless it’s going to happen anyway)
People have flaming each other because of first contact with Klingons and Ferengi early, and why it is named Enterprise. This is something we hear about all the time... it's classified. They found that Klingons and the Raptor in 2151, but because | of security or some such the didn't *officially* record first contact until 2218. Like important matters of the Federation are classified below the rank of Admiral. Another theory of why the Vulcan’s wasn't logical was they haven't became totally separate from the Romulan’s yet. Some people believed Surak and became 'logical' but later the concept became popular and turned in to the 'present day' Vulcan’s. The problem with Phlox being a Denobluan (sp.) was that they were against the Romulan Wars and dropped out and became isolationists.
It's all a theory. So if you don't like it don't believe it. No flaming please.
Posted by Dat (Member # 302) on :
Well, this is a first. Koy being the smart one and giving out advice. Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
He still needs to learn how to quote someone, though. Check out UBB, Koy.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
I'm not sure who to feel sorry for...
Posted by koy'peled Oy'tio (Member # 796) on :
The Defiant cause i actually do know how to Quote but it was too much work at the time...oh well
Posted by The Vulcan (Member # 633) on :
All his "theories" are irrelevant and well, not really believeable.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Well, I don't know how to quote either...but I was talking more about the "moron" part... Why in the world would you go there? I mean, geez. Just play nicely.
"Hello, Kettle? Yah, this is Pot...you're black."
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
quote:Originally posted by koy'peled Oy'tio: Um…some information, assuming that the novels are accurate to the trek universe.
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