quote:

---

warren ellis
BAD SIGNAL

It was rumoured the other day that US networklet UPN was considering
replacing STAR TREK: ENTERPRISE producer Rick Berman. WIth that in mind, I
decided to watch a few recent episodes, to see how bad it had gotten.
Longtime readers will know that I occasionally keep an eye on US genre TV
for professional reasons as well as for purposes of comedy. ENTERPRISE, in
particular, is something I've been interviewed about for American media.

In its second season, ENTERPRISE had the authentic chill of doom on it,
faithfully following the sausage-machine formula of lightly rewriting
episodes from previous Trek series in order to pleasure the extant Trekkie
audience that watches the show for comfort. By the end of the season, the
show was choking hard, and a revamp was in order.

The revamp took the form of the science-fictional trope of mapping a
present-day event onto future territory for distanced consideration. The
contemporary event was predictable. Towelheads From Beyond Space
perpetrate a terrorist attack on Earth -- I allow that there may have been
a kinky sense of humour in having it happen to Florida -- and Enterprise is
loaded up with Marines and dispatched to the foreign caves of The Delphic
Expanse (where nothing makes sense) to bomb the bastards.

This gives them an actual story arc for the third season. But structure
was not necessarily what the show needed.

Last time I covered ENTERPRISE, I noted that the addition of the Marines
cuts the actual crew off at the knees. Our Heroes, it says, aren't
actually hard enough to beat the Space Gooks alone. Not that we've seen
much of the Marines, it seems -- and the excellent Steven Culp, as Head
Marine Bloke, is both misused and underused. Patrick Stewart in a
wifebeater can kick the shit out of a dozen cyborg goths on his own, but
big Scott Bakula needs a bunch of jarheads to hold his hand.

STAR TREK: NEXT GENERATION was and is frequently laughable -- I mean,
beyond the basic anodyne nature of the thing, having the ship's therapist
sitting next to the captain on the bridge just cracks me up.

"Starfleet pigdog, God will roast your stomach in Hell."

"Captain, I detect... anger."

Poor Marina Sirtis. She can actually act, but you'd rarely know from
watching Star Trek. Star Trek, in general, is really not very good TV much
of the time, and criticising it sometimes seems beside the point. But in
its previous iterations, it had, y'know, actors. And actors who were
reasonably well-cast. Next Generation was rich with serious actors --
Patrick, Brent Spiner, Colm Meaney, LeVar Burton. Jonathan Frakes, I
think, missed his calling as a comedy actor, but I thought he did a
terrific job as a shamelessly, enjoyably showy director on the FIRST
CONTACT movie. Deep Space Nine had the brilliantly charming Avery Brooks,
Rene Auberjonois, Nana Visitor and Andrew Robinson. (And Alex Siddig from
that show did a blistering turn on the BBC's SPOOKS last year that should
have put him back on TV for good somewhere.)

VOYAGER, of course, had nothing and no-one, and alarm bells should have
gone off all over when they sat down to plan ENTERPRISE.

Scott Bakula is a gifted stage and screen actor, but over the years has
been revealed to have little range. He works a virtuous boyish innocence.
He sounds apologetic when he's angry. He's surrounded by polite
middle-class bots with punchable faces. The security officer has no chin.
The communications officer spends her time looking like she's going to
burst into tears at any moment. The pilot has all the soft half-formed
personality of a baby's foot. I'm sure all these actors could excel in
other parts in other shows, but ENTERPRISE remains perhaps the most
hideously miscast show to reach three seasons.

And removing the producer isn't going to cure that. If the scripts stink
and the actors don't work and not enough people are watching the show, then
it needs to be killed. Insisting on bulling through because Star Trek
Shows Last Seven Seasons is just shitty business. If it's old and it's
tired and it's not working, then it's time to clear the decks and come up
with something new.

Of course, TV's natural reaction is to dig up something old again.

I was given the opportunity to watch the recent BATTLESTAR GALACTICA TV
miniseries the other day. Its inaugural screening on America's Sci-Fi
Channel was very successful, the third most-watched programme they've ever
broadcast. Which is still only, you know, four and a half million people,
but I'm given to understand that for a niche cable channel that's pretty
damned good.

It doesn't quite have the courage of its convictions.

I watched it because I did a Bad Signal some months ago about the response
to the writer/producer Ronald Moore from hardcore fans of the original TV
series. Fifty-odd ageing fanatic followers of a bad 70s sci-fi TV show
with heavy Mormon overtones, given the opportunity to submit questions to
Moore for a website interview, subjected him to a bizarre inquisition
reminiscent of HUAC interrogations. These people purely radiated hatred
for him, based upon a smattering of earlier comments he made about his
intended approach to the work.

His intent was to jettison everything that made the original stupid --
which was quite a bit, as the original was barely passable as children's
television -- and build a realistic adult sf drama around what was left.
Lose the dumb names, remove idiocies like sound in space, get rid of the
Erich Von Daniken-via-Salt Lake City messianism, maintain a dramatic tone.

He didn't lose nearly enough to make it a serious piece of work.

The first obvious failure of courage is, in the opening scenes, the
presence of, guess what, sound in space. Which is oddly jarring since the
special effects are excellent. Taking their cue from things like the
effects work of FIREFLY, the camera zooms and shakes to capture vessels in
flight from unusual POVs, the result of Moore's conviction that the
spaceborne "camerawork" should reflect not an omniscent floating POV, but
actual thinking about where the "cameras" might be located. At the
conclusion of the opening scene, in fact, the "camera" is struck by flying
debris, and our POV spins off into space before fading into black. This is
what's going to be lifted by the copycats -- a return to long- and
middle-distance focus in visual sf to communicate scale. (The AUTHORITY
trick, if you like, borrowed from sf manga)

These very realistic images, occasionally inspired by such things as the
cameras mounted on Apollo spacecraft, rub hard against the goofiness of
Cylon fighters sounding like racing cars as they zoom past our field of
vision.

The original show starred some frankly awful actors. Lorne Greene,
heartdead from years of TV Westerns, had a good voice and little else, and
was surrounded by pleasant yet giftless presences like Dirk Benedict,
Richard Hatch, and The Crying Girl Whose Job Was To Tell The Crew That
Everyone Was Dead. If I wanted to be cruel, I'd note that in the new
version The Crying Girl is now black and gets to smack the tonsils clean
out of a wimpy political aide with her tongue.

Edward James Olmos, in Lorne Greene's role, is twice the actor Greene was.
Katee Sackhoff, as Kara Thrace (callsign "Starbuck"), plays against her
looks -- in repose, she is strikingly pretty, but she spends most of the
piece grinning and gurning -- with wild abandon, entirely prepared to make
her character an unpleasant living shitbomb blasting everyone around her
with shrapnel. Mary McDonnell, whom I haven't seen onscreen since
SNEAKERS, wears an emotional quirkiness close to the surface as the dying
education secretary promoted to President in the wake of human society
being destroyed by the bad old Cylon robot things. She, in particular,
suffers from frame-fucking -- hard cutting and dialogue overlapping shots,
denying her complete in-frame performances.

What Moore can't leave alone are the elements that made GALACTICA fantasy.
In the new version, everyone has English (or, at least, Terran) names --
but they all pray (a lot) to The Lords Of Kobol, and at the end they revive
the whole thing about Earth being a mythic "lost colony". So the
commander's name is William, but Earth was colonised at the same time as
their twelve worlds? I call bullshit on you. It's a logical hiccup, an
element of out-and-out fantasy in something that had been otherwise
rigorously imagined with strong internal logic. How hard would it have
been to have Earth as the original source of the twelve colonies, thereby
closing that loop? That gives you the Lords Of Kobol (dumb name) as the
leaders of the original colonies, perhaps in the mode of Roger Zelazny's
LORD OF LIGHT. I don't mean to rewrite the guy -- my point is that he
works hard to persuade a viewer to sit down and commit to the piece, and
then leaves a leg off the chair.

I think maybe as a writer working in a visual medium I watch these things
differently to someone looking to be entertained. I was bugged by every
officer on the ship having a different salute, for instance. One service,
one style of salute. Internal consistency is important in sf , because it
asks the viewer to process so much new information. (This is part of why
Star Trek is considered to be worthy of continual renewal -- the audience
is already educated in its world.) We need things to recognise, and we
need to be taken in. Show me eight different forms of salute in ten
minutes and I'll show you a bunch of bloody actors. And a writer-producer
that's thought hard, but sometimes not hard enough.

There's a lot of sound acting, some intelligent (and callous) setpieces,
and in general it's a lot better than it has any right to be. You find
yourself allowing for some occasional tacky and cheap-looking bits, because
it's trying very very hard. You just about forgive it for Boxey -- the
orphan kid from the original, cloned here, and, somehow, with the same
Seventies haircut.

It's worth watching. It puts most, if not all, recent sf tv in the shade.
It's not as charming as FIREFLY (too late) became, but it shows ENTERPRISE
up as the plain, thin thing it is. And if it's Trek alumnus Ron Moore who
illustrates, even with a revamp, that sf tv needs to grow up a bit, then
that seems kind of just to me.

-- W

(I think I'm working up to a piece on revamping in general.)

---

 

---

Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
 
Wow. I want to marry this guy.
 

---

Posted by MrNeutron (Member # 524) on :
 
Fun read. I don't agree with him about Galactica, though. Actually, he was too nice to it. I agree with all his nits, but I also found it deadly dull and half the cast was awful.
 

---

Posted by Kazeite (Member # 970) on :
 
Hmm... I'm kinda confused about that it is supposed to be about, because he starts talking about Trek, only to switch to Galactica halfway through.

VOYAGER, of course, had nothing and no-one,
And with this I strongly disagree.

What about Robert Picardo, for example?

What about Tim Russ, who was generally praised for being able to create second best Vulcan?

What about Kate Mulgrew, who managed to remain consistently inonsistent (in addition to being able to, like my friend once said, "cut the glass with her whisper" )?

Although I do agree that Voyager had its share of problems and is generally considered second-worst Trek, I certainly wouldn't say that it "had no-one".
 

---

Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
 
"second-worst?"
 

---

Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
 

quote:

---

What about Tim Russ, who was generally praised for being able to create second best Vulcan?

---

Very best IMHO: definitely the best full-blooded Vulcan depicted without them coming off as smug bastards.
 

---

Posted by TheWoozle (Member # 929) on :
 
So.. he doesn't like science fiction... right.
 

---

Posted by Mucus (Member # 24) on :
 
He's got a pretty good point...
...and it appears as though a good portion of Flare can't follow the development of an idea past a handful of paragraphs.


Yay.
 

---

Posted by Wraith (Member # 779) on :
 
A good portion? You mean the one person who expressed confusion? And who isn't even a native English speaker? Being slightly harsh there, IMO.
 

---

Posted by Kazeite (Member # 970) on :
 
Me non comprendo

I think that I was confused because I assumed that I would be article only about Trek.

And by saying "second-worst", I mean that I consider Enterprise to be the worst.
 

---

Posted by Ultra Magnus (Member # 239) on :
 
Warren Ellis likes Science Fiction.
 

---

Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
 
And that's reminded me; I really should go out and buy Hostile Waters.
 

---

Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
 
Anyone who says ENT is worse than VGR obviously has some sort of chemical imbalance in their brain that causes them to say crazy crazy things.
 

---

Posted by J (Member # 608) on :
 
ENT and VOY are equally bad but for different reasons. VOY had no story line, ENT has no integrity.
 

---

Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
 
Oh, Voyager had storylines, they just sucked a lot of the time and weren't the stories anyone wanted. And what do you mean, Enterprise has no integrity? To what? Itself? Trek? Decent God-fearin' down-home Mom's apple pie American values?
 

---

Posted by Kazeite (Member # 970) on :
 
Enterprise is worse than Voyager - that is a statistically proven fact

And yes, Enterprise has integrity only when it is required by plot - witness Vulcans reactions after P'jem accident, for example.
 

---

Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
 
But third season ENT is a *lot* better than the first two.

The only problem I see with this show is that it NEEDS a Big Giant Reset Button at the end of it, to reconcile it with the rest of Trek. Because all this Time War and Expanse stuff clearly can't exist in the 'real' Star Trek universe.
 

---

Posted by Kazeite (Member # 970) on :
 
Well, the third season is indeed better than the first two, but it still leaves us with two bad seasons

And yes, this show does need a big reset button
 

---

Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Harry:
The only problem I see with this show is that it NEEDS a Big Giant Reset Button at the end of it, to reconcile it with the rest of Trek. Because all this Time War and Expanse stuff clearly can't exist in the 'real' Star Trek universe.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Harry:
The only problem I see with this show is that it NEEDS a Big Giant Reset Button at the end of it, to reconcile it with the rest of Trek. Because all this Time War and Expanse stuff clearly can't exist in the 'real' Star Trek universe.

---

Why?

There has been only ONE real, undeniable continuity error between ENT and the rest of Trek: The Romulans having cloaking devices. Everything else only violates fan speculation or Okudaic conjecture.
 

---

Posted by WizArtist (Member # 1095) on :
 
Perhaps its Enterprise that is the TRUE trek and at the end of the temporal war there will be no Constitution class or Kirk etc.....
 

---

Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
 
Somewhere, for reasons he doesn't fully understand, Brannon Braga has just come in his pants. . .
 

---

Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
 
He lives with Jeri Ryan. I think he understands fully.
 

---

Posted by Kazeite (Member # 970) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by J:
Ok... VOY didn't have a good storyline,

---

Well, I think that "Kazon spy" and "B'elanna/Tom romance" storylines were pretty good

And there's another "real, undeniable continuity error" in ENT, straight in the beginning - Klingon First Contact. Archer himself thought after that that Klingons "owe us one", and now we know that it's not the "disastrous" FC that is (probably) going to lead to hostilities with Klingons, but battle with Duras, escape from Rura Penthe (which is another continuity error ), etc.

WizArtist, I don't know if you like James Dixon or not, but right now you actually agree with him - he also thinks that Enterprise is Trek reboot
 

---

Posted by Balaam Xumucane (Member # 419) on :
 

quote:

---

He lives with Jeri Ryan. I think he understands fully.

---

quote:

---

Patrick Stewart in a wifebeater can kick the shit out of a dozen cyborg goths on his own, but big Scott Bakula needs a bunch of jarheads to hold his hand.

---

No, but Warren Ellis is superexcellent.
 

---

Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
 
I'd say a human farmer shooting at a crash-landed Klingon in the middle of a Kansas cornfield is pretty disasterous. And even though the High Cuncil grudgingly thanked Archer for bringing them the DNA info intact, there was already tension there and hostilities began immediately thereafter, as seen in "Unexpected." Besides, without first contact being made, there would never *be* any hostilities, so under any circumstances one could say that it "led to" them.

However, you're right about Rura Penthe. That's one other genuine gaffe. Of course, it may be rationalized by saying that Archer didn't really "escape." His crew paid off an official to ge him released. Either that or Martia was just playing up the "no one has ever escaped from Rura Penthe" bit to arouse Kirk's egomaniacal tendancies...

-MMoM
 

---

Posted by J (Member # 608) on :
 
To plan from the beginning to reset an entire work is no different than saying it isn't good enough to stand forever. Of course, the fact is that is true with ENT even if they don't reset.

And as for fan spectulation--- what is so wrong with 30 years of fan spectulation, which I might add has never really been contradicted. Since Balance of Terror we have known that the Earth-Romulan War was a and more likely THE primary factor in the creation of the Federation. We have also known that it was the Romulans who attacked, however there has never been anything definative on if the Romulans attacked Earth. We also have known that Earth was totally unprepared for such an attack, and that it was the first alien conflict. None of this jives with ENT, yet it has been accepted gospel to the majority of fans--- including many casual fans [people who'd faithfully watch the show but never send the time of day to this forum]. I don't know why, perhaps it's because they never agreed with this anyway, but people who aren't shaking their heads and saying "yeah, that's how it is" to this, you're only apologists for B&B and their no talent writing staff.

There is more drama within a framed universe, and that's what was Trek before ENT.
 

---

Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
 
That's true. ENT has to contend with 30+ years of 'pre-TOS' fandom, which at times was pretty much a consistent history.

Another apparent inconsistency with other Trek seems to be the existence of the *huge* Delphic Expanse obviously very close to the core worlds. Not to mention the Xindi attack.

And of course, the Temporal War and all that stuff might not 'have happened'. But thinking about time travel makes my head hurt.
 

---

Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
 
But the Delphic Expanse is caused by the Xindi Spheres, so once they are deactivated it will no longer exist...
 

---

Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
 

"...it has been accepted gospel to the majority of fans--- including many casual fans [people who'd faithfully watch the show but never send the time of day to this forum]."

Um... People who watch the shows, but aren't like us, don't care what a bunch of fans have made up as backstory. If they're lucky, they remember that there was some episode of TOS that mentioned an old war with the Romulans. For them to even know about this "gospel" you describe, they would have to read Web sites like this, or the pre-Internet fandom publications.
 

---

Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Harry:
Another apparent inconsistency with other Trek seems to be the existence of the *huge* Delphic Expanse obviously very close to the core worlds. Not to mention the Xindi attack.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim:
I'd say a human farmer shooting at a crash-landed Klingon in the middle of a Kansas cornfield is pretty disasterous.

---

Not from the Klingon perspective.
According to novel, Klaang is actually grateful that farmer shot him in the chest, as opposed to Sulibans who tried to shot him in the back. (and while we're at it, while running away from Sulibans he was wondering whether he can run backwards. No, really.)

quote:

---

And even though the High Cuncil grudgingly thanked Archer for bringing them the DNA info intact, there was already tension there and hostilities began immediately thereafter, as seen in "Unexpected."

---

Please, don't remind me this episode
(is this true this idea was deemed "too stupid" when originally brought up as possible Voyager scenario idea?)
And even though Klingons acted hostile at the beginning of this episode, it was not because of "Broken Bow", and Enterprise crew ended up doing them a favor. Once again.

quote:

---

Besides, without first contact being made, there would never *be* any hostilities, so under any circumstances one could say that it "led to" them.

---

This is possible, but rather unlikely. Picard used the Klingons example to show that botched first contact can lead directly to hostilities, not that one should avoid all contact because alien races he may meet may in future turn hostile.
 

---

Posted by japol (Member # 1149) on :
 
Anyone who is interested in Ellis' fiction should pick up "Transmetropolitan."

Yes... it IS a comic book, but it is really quite wonderful. I'd recommend starting at the beginning and checking out the first year or so. There are trade paperbacks available.

And if someone else has mentioned this already, I apologize.
 

---

Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
 
Transmetropolitan has the most feared hand-weapon in all of fiction.

I cant find me a pair of Spider's glasses for blood or money though....
 

---

Posted by WizArtist (Member # 1095) on :
 
It has the "Ultimate Nullifier"?
 

---

Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
 
I still can't believe you're claiming that ENT is worse than frigging VOYAGER. I mean, come on...
 

---

Posted by Kazeite (Member # 970) on :
 
What?

I honestly can't think of anything that hasn't been done better in Voyager than Enterprise.
 

---

Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
 
Character development?
 

---

Posted by Kazeite (Member # 970) on :
 
Yes, that has been done better in Voyager too
(hint - the helmsman actually had more that one line per episode )
 

---

Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
 
Too bad the first officer didn't.

Well, worthwhile lines, anyway.
 

---

Posted by Mucus (Member # 24) on :
 
A Vulcan that actually kinda acts Vulcan?
 

---

Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
 
Meh. That's not automatically good. After all, Worf was a Klingon who barely acted Klingon, and he was still a good character.

(And as an aside, it's a tribute to Robbie McNeil that Paris was even half a good a character as he was considering that his total character development for the series was 98% done by the end of the pilot.)
 

---

Posted by Kazeite (Member # 970) on :
 
So, changing from rebelious outsider to member of the team, befriending Harry, acting as a decoy to capture spy, getting married and getting second job doesn't count as character development?
 

---

Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
 
No. It counts as points on a checklist. I mean, liked his friendship with Harry, but it wasn't really "Character Development". He was friends with him by the second episode, if I recall correctly.

The marriage thing, maybe. I don't even remember him getting a second job, though...
 

---

Posted by Mucus (Member # 24) on :
 
I hope he doesn't mean becoming a nurse.
 

---

Posted by Kazeite (Member # 970) on :
 
Why yes I do

I'm curious... if all those events count only as point on checklist, then what so important happened in last episode that counts as 98% of character developemnt?

And exactly how is Enterprise better in this regard?
 

---

Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
 
Except Paris was drafted into medical duty in the pilot, if I recall correctly, which just reinforces Liam's point.
 

---

Posted by Kazeite (Member # 970) on :
 
No. He merely got down to sickbay with Harry when it was blown up. And it was mainly Harry who was doing nurse job
"Tricorder." (Harry hands one) "Medical tricorder!"

And there's still that getting to be part of the team and falling in love with B'elanna thingy
 

---

Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
 
Paris was part of the team AND a nurse by the second episode. The only real aspects his character had were a love of flying and an interest in the twentieth century. The only change his character went through was an interest in B'Elanna.

Compare the third episode of Voyager to the end of it. What changes are there? B'Elanna isn't QUITE as angry, and the doctor is almost human. Kes grew up a bit, but then left. Seven didn't change much between her fourth ep and almost the very end of the series, and that last change was never dealt with. So aside from the Doctor and Kes, show me any characters in Voyager whose personalities in their third episode weren't just the same as their personalities in the last. THAT is lack of character development.

Compare to Enterprise. Mayweather may be MIA, but T'Pol, Tucker, and Archer at the very least have changed some since the show started, and that much I know wihtout having even watched half the series. THAT's character development. It's no B5, it's no DS9, but it's better than Voyager.
 

---

Posted by Kazeite (Member # 970) on :
 
Let's see... Tuvok. Paris. B'elanna. Harry. I think that with possible exception of Janeway everyone got some character development in Voyager.

And let's compare it with Enterprise... Hm... So T'Pol got sick. And Trip lost sister. And Archer switched to badass mode. And Hoshi isn't easily scared now.

OK, so I grant that there was some change in Archer - he actually starts acting like responsible adult. But besides that and Hoshi I haven't noticed any character development.
 

---

Posted by Cartman (Member # 256) on :
 
Kim got developed? When?
 

---

Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
 
Of course, all of this depends on whether you like to see Trek as character-driven or plot-driven.

Personally, I found 7 years of "We're lost in the Delta Quadrant trying to get home, facing random forehead aliens trying to take over the ship, and the BORG!" to wear quite thin indeed. Now, ENT has had a number of quite interesting and distinct plot archs. (Temporal Cold War, Vulco-Andorian conflict & Earth's role therein, developing hostility with the Klingons, internal social conflict on Vulcan, Romulan first contact, Xindi attack, MACOs vs. Starfleet, to name a few, and that's only been the first three seasons!)

Also ENT is much less filled with nonsensical as opposed to sensical technobabble, (though it has its guilty moments too) rushed and unfullfilling climaxes, and abandoned/inconsistent premises than VGR.

-MMoM

[ February 15, 2004, 04:12 PM: Message edited by: The Mighty Monkey of Mim ]
 

---

Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kazeite:
I'm curious... if all those events count only as point on checklist, then what so important happened in last episode that counts as 98% of character developemnt?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Cartman:
Kim got developed? When?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Balaam Xumucane:
Maybe in the episode where he secretly yearns for the murderer's thoughts. Or when he's stuck on the planet with Tank Girl. But not Tuvix. I don't want to talk about Tuvix.

---

Tuvok was never so much developed as Tim Russ managed to make the chracter his own.
Tuvok is probably Voyager's main redeeeming feature, IMHO.
 

---

Posted by Kazeite (Member # 970) on :
 
Cartman, Harry Kim was developed in "Demon", for instance. And yeah, sure, it was kinda sudden, I agree

Tuvok - well, I consider him "dancing" for Neelix a character development

B'elanna - falling in love and getting married pretty much counts as character development, doesn't it?

ditto for Tom.

Neelix - his girlfriend dumped him. Also, although he was cook pretty much all the time, his other respinsibilities rather fluctated.

Psyliam - Doh! My mistake (and no, I don't consider getting promoted a character develompent )

MMiM, as you probably imagine, I disagree.
Here you can read part of the ENT bible - count how many abandoned/inconsistant premises are there.
And I consider ENT technobabble not bad, but terrible. Remember "Rogue Planet", for example?
Their intensive plot recycling doesn't help either.
And Archer is just plain stupid.
And ongoing plot arches doesn't make much sense, too, with the possible exception of Xindi arch, which is getting weirder and weirder with each episode

The funny thing is, some of those plots would not be present at all, if certain species acted like they are supposed to.
 

---

Posted by Cartman (Member # 256) on :
 
No, he wasn't. His clone was, insofar as a puddle of silver goo attaining sentience and longing for more than a puddly existence can be considered development. And what does it say about a show when a member of the main cast doesn't get his due until the third-last episode of the fourth season?

Tell me, how is Ensign Boy at all different in Endgame from the character he was in Caretaker? I can think of only one episode where they did anything with him (Nightingale), and even that was wasted labor, because his changes didn't stick.
 

---

Posted by Kazeite (Member # 970) on :
 
Yes he was.
It was original Harry, before they even landed on the planetoid.
And the question was if he got any character development, not when it happened.

Now, how is he different? He has a different haircut

But seriously, your question partially answers itself - I see actions of "Nightingale" as a consequence of "Demon" and "The Disease".
 

---

Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
 
You're going to cause an emoticon shortage if you keep this up.
 

---

Posted by Ultra Magnus (Member # 239) on :
 
Hold on.

So, Desolation Jones!
 

---

Posted by Ultra Magnus (Member # 239) on :
 
Read Switchblade Honey.
 

---

Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
 
Isn't that one of Simon's favourite bands?
 

---