quote:It seems Spiner has turned into quite an Enterprise addict, even going so far as to share the experience with some special friends. "Enterprise is a wonderful show, I watch it all the time. I get in my uniform, I sit down, I line up all my action figures, and we all watch the show together. And to be honest, they enjoy it even more than I do!"
What a fucking nerd. There are only a couple months left until Enterprise is back, so I better get my yellow uniform out of storage and prepare myself.
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
So he's basically saying that an inanimate plastic object enjoys Enterprise more than he does.
Posted by Futurama IV Skin (Member # 968) on :
Yet he wants nothing to do with TNG anymore?
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
Sounds like UPN asked him to do some positive PR spinning for the show. Either that or, God forbid, he's actually being serious.
Posted by Ultra Manjuice (Member # 239) on :
Brent Spiner > deadcujo
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Here's a crazy idea. What if he was joking? I mean, I realize that's a completely mind-blowing notion, but still...
"Kate Mulgrew's (Kathryn Janeway) question and answer session reportedly generated some controversy. According to a report at StarTrekHQ.com, Mulgrew, the wife of Tim Hagen, the Democratic candidate for Ohio governor in 2002, attacked President George W. Bush and urged fans to vote for John Kerry instead."
Holy shit! A private citizen expressed a political opinion! What the fuck is going on?!
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
Well, I'm sure that if it weren't for the liberal media elite we'd hear about Republicans advocating the re-election of a Republican president all the time. Oh, wait. . .
Posted by deadcujo (Member # 13) on :
I prefer to think he was being completely serious about it.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
I cant see how anyone from TNG could look at Enterprise and not like it: Enterprise has a great story arc (last season anyhow), incredible effects and solid acting....alll things that would've really made TNG great instead of just several great episodes focusing on mainly Picard, Data and Worf.
Posted by UFPSFMC-Colonel Mike Captain (Member # 709) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jason Abbadon: I cant see how anyone from TNG could look at Enterprise and not like it: Enterprise has a great story arc (last season anyhow), incredible effects and solid acting....alll things that would've really made TNG great instead of just several great episodes focusing on mainly Picard, Data and Worf.
i cannot find any validity in this contention.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Then you should watch anything TNG focusing on Alexander, Troi, Geordi's mom, Exo-comps or the crew mutating into monsters....
Posted by Ultra Manjuice (Member # 239) on :
Four episodes, okay.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Hey, where did my post go? I MADE A POST AND NOW IT IS GONE. Well, that is par for the course, it seems. I hate things.
"Spiner talks about Enterprise" "Spiner Keeping Mum On 'Enterprise' Gig"
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
THere were at least five focusing on Alexander alone and six or seven focusing on Troi, her mom and her blocked memories of a sister or some shit...then you've got 90% of first season, 80% of seventh season (particularly bad was that whole "Korgano" nonsense), their boring time-travel two-parter, the equally boring and silly "pirate adventure" that was resolved by thinking happy thoughts, Descent (both parts) was so horrible as to boggle the mind, The Child was abyssimal (and a Troi episode) and the worst episode of Trek of all time: Dr. Crusher's "scottish ghost romance" episode.
Stack these up against what we've seen on Enterprise and you'll see that the latest show is far surpassing TNG (as of teir third season, at any rate).
TNG has some amazing episodes, but fans want to only focus on those when someone compares Enterprise (or even Voyager) to it.
Posted by Ultra Manjuice (Member # 239) on :
In your pee onion.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
I just wish TNG had the benifit of today's writers, directors and most of all special effects.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
Are the writers of 1990 all dead then?
Posted by Cartman (Member # 256) on :
Because today's writers and directors always get everything right, right?
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Welllllll No, they sure dont, but even Hoshi's most plaintive whining sounds FAR more believable than anything Troi ever spouted out onscreen. Marina Sirtis makes her mentor (Calculon) so proud.
Even episodes like "A Night in Sickbay" far outshine almost any "holodeck adventure" IMHO.
Posted by Cartman (Member # 256) on :
It's just that lumping all seven years of TNG on the same pile after a single modestly good season of ENT may not be the most reliable sequitur ever, you know?
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
I suppose, but we cant really compare untill Enterprise's seven years are up. Comparing just the first three seasons, I'd still give it to Enterprise as a better overall series. TNG never really got into full gear untill later (fourth-fifth season for me) while more is expected of Enterprise.
Back to Spiner, I would'nt be suprised if a great many former-Trek cast are Enterprise fans: look at how many of them direct episodes Posted by UFPSFMC-Colonel Mike Captain (Member # 709) on :
I'm clucking my tongue at you, fanboy.
PS what's a Korgano?
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
"...the equally boring and silly 'pirate adventure' that was resolved by thinking happy thoughts..."
I don't know about pirates, but the only "happy thoughts" plot I can think of is TOS' "Day of the Dove".
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
quote:I don't know about pirates, but the only "happy thoughts" plot I can think of is TOS' "Day of the Dove".
I refer to the "aincent Vulcan superweapon" that does dick if you're opponent can relax and clear their thoughts of violent feelings.
quote:Originally posted by UFPSFMC-Colonel Mike Captain: I'm clucking my tongue at you, fanboy.
PS what's a Korgano?
Again with your chicken fetish.....
"Korgano" was one of the characters Data was posessed by when Enterprise D encountered a space library that started turning whole decks of the ship into a temple and.... Fuck it. If you missed the episode, you're better off. Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
I quite liked the sets in that one. Even if they were done on the cheap and only the interior of the ship got Azteched.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Notice a total lack of crew (extras) in that episode?
"Cheap" is right. Posted by Ultra Manjuice (Member # 239) on :
You're stupid! And you're gonna be stupid and dead!
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
You love that episode? It's laughably bad.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
"I refer to the 'aincent Vulcan superweapon' that does dick if you're opponent can relax and clear their thoughts of violent feelings."
Oh, right. "Gambit".
"'Korgano' was one of the characters Data was posessed by when Enterprise D encountered a space library that started turning whole decks of the ship into a temple and...."
So, you couldn't remember it was called "Masks". And yet, of all the ways you could have described it, you picked some obscure character name that no-one would recognize.
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
I said I liked the sets.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
*raises hand* I liked Masks.
"Mishaka is COMING...!"
It wasn't BAD, it wasn't "Shades of Grey" or "Too Short a Season" or "Threshold" or "Favourite Son" or "Muse" or "Rivals".
Posted by MarianLH (Member # 1102) on :
Originally posted by Jason Abbadon:
quote:Even episodes like "A Night in Sickbay" far outshine almost any "holodeck adventure" IMHO.
Although I normally stay out of these discussions (because I don't watch the show), I'm going to jump in and disagree with that. "A Night in Sickbay" is one of the few episodes I've actually seen, and I would sit through all the holodeck eps of TNG, VOY, and DS9 combined, with "Q-Pid" as an aperitif, before watching it again.
However, for all my dislike of the show, I freely admit that ENT has had some damn good writing here and there among the crap. "Fortunate Son," for instance. Or Reed & Archer's scenes in "Minefield." And that Admiral's speech in "Broken Bow," about wading in the ocean of space, still brings a lump to my throat--and not just for the show's wasted potential.
It has been my impression that the ratio of crap to good writing is higher on ENT than on TNG. But then, I've only seen about a dozen episodes.
Marian
PS: I liked "Masks" too. "Ooh, Gilgamesh in Space!"
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
I didn't like the episode, but I liked the design of the of the icons and of the mask that Data made.
"A line as the unending horizon. A curve as the setting sun...."
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
quote:Originally posted by MarianLH: PS: I liked "Masks" too. "Ooh, Gilgamesh in Space!"
It was NOT Gilgamesh in space.
No.
I remembered Spiner saying "Koegano" because he uses such a strange tone of voice when he says it...good acting on Spiner's part but really bad acting on everyone else's. The ship being converted into some temple thing and no one seems terribly concerned....theres no sense of urgency or drama at all in the entire episode. Though not as bad as Shades of Gray or Threshold, it's pretty damn bad.
Also on my list of bad TNG is the episode where Worf becomes paralized....when it first aired, I immeadeately said "He'll be just fine by next week" and, of course, he was.
Possibly no TNG episode reeks as bad as the one with Luxwana showing Alexander the mudbaths on the holodeck..(shudder)...better the entire series had been spontaneously cancelled than to have made that steaming pile of crap.
Marian, you should really download some of Enterprise's season three...there's some really great episodes and performances there.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
QPid was funny though, so that was okay. And was it even a holodeck adventure? Didn't Q just create it all?
Rivals was okay too. The plot was far too silly to take with anything but a tonne of salt, and the O'Brien/Bashir stuff was nice.
quote:Originally posted by Lee: I said I liked the sets.
Suuuuuure you did.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Rivals had Prince Humperdink in it... So I'm ok with it. Plus, it's the first time we found out the name of Guninan's race. Also, the scene where Sisko and Dax phaser all the little machines wasd cool.
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
Yes, I did. In fact I'm rather fond of "Masks" generally. It had this funny atmosphere. There was the germ of a good idea in there somewhere, let down by the overall suckiness. Like when Data is by the fire channelling all the different aliens. Some of them were your basic Spiner Acts Manic characters, but others like the old cold one were well done.
And I feel I should mention that ep, granted not a Picard one really, with that holodeck Colony of Individuals or whetever they were. Christ, the ep was already going to suck because it had Lwaxana Troi in it, then they went and outdid (or should that be underdid?) themselves on the awfulness front.
Posted by Topher (Member # 71) on :
Wasn't Korgano the moon dude that Picard impersonated?
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Lee, that holodeck one with Worf's brother was indeed craptackular.
As was the episode whith Luxwana trying to convince the guy from M.A.S.H. not to kill himself. Somehow they managed to waste an entire episode on her wailing.....
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
No, the one you mean is the one where Worf's brother transports the aliens from their doomed planet using a holodeck. Although that one sucked too. The one I mean is where Lwaxana has lots of mudbaths with Alexander on the holodeck. That REALLY sucked.
"Half A Life" can be summed-up thus:
Major Winchester: Hey I'm old, time to die. Lwaxana Troi: That sucks! Major Winchester: Yeah, you're right. Actually, I suppose I'd better anyway. Lwaxana Troi: Oh, OK.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Oh Half a Life wasn't THAT bad - it marked a turning point in Lwoxana episodes. Her best episode is the DS9 season 1 episode of hers... "The Forgotten"?? "Muse" and "Fascination" are among DS9's worst though.
"Half a Life" and "Dark Page" are good TNG Lwaxana episodes. Oh - Menage a Troi was good for a larf.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Back to Spiner's comment - do yo think it was a dig at the fans... that the plastic figurines would enjoy it than the cynical Star Trek fan? I'd say he'd still be bitter over Nemesis. Can't he and Stewart just admit they shouldn't have stuck their fingers in the pie. They ruined the movie. I.e. stick to acting and not Producing/Writing the movie.
Posted by Dat (Member # 302) on :
It wasn't the production or writing... or even the directing. It was the lousy editing and the scheduled release date.
Posted by deadcujo (Member # 13) on :
I don't think Nemesis even made a profit. Lord of the Rings totally destroyed it.
Posted by deadcujo (Member # 13) on :
As for the context of his comment: I still think he was serious and is a nerd.
Posted by UFPSFMC-Colonel Mike Captain (Member # 709) on :
a fucking nerd...
i share Jason's hatred of TNG season 7 and shitty TNG era eps in general, but until i see a few more "good" ENT eps, i'm going to have to not condemn TNG on that basis. The shitty holodeck/shitty altered reality/budget savers/whiny guest star episodes are still in the minority, especially if you are willing to bring s3 through s6 into consideration..
what i'm wondering is if Spiner wears his yellow TNG uniform, his red TNG uniform from "Chain of Command," his Generations uniform or his First Contact uniform. OR if he actually has an ENT uniform.
This is what I am wondering.
Posted by Cartman (Member # 256) on :
You fucking nerd.
Posted by Dat (Member # 302) on :
No, I'd be the nerd for pointing out that Spiner had gotten his red TNG uniform from "Future Imperfect".
Posted by UFPSFMC-Colonel Mike Captain (Member # 709) on :
That was an alien holosimulation and he wore a DIFFERENT PIN.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
Would it be nerdy to point out that he actually wore two different "regular" TNG uniforms? And that it was more mustardy-gold than yellow?
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
"It wasn't the production or writing... or even the directing. It was the lousy editing and the scheduled release date."
The writing sure didn't help it, though.
Posted by UFPSFMC-Colonel Mike Captain (Member # 709) on :
quote:Originally posted by PsyLiam: Would it be nerdy to point out that he actually wore two different "regular" TNG uniforms? And that it was more mustardy-gold than yellow?
and on that, we would wonder: the correct, more common "lieutenant commander" insignia or the accidental, rare costume screwup that occasionally made him "lieutenant junior grade."
This would be like the fucking nerdiness reaching some type of climactic "nerdgasm" if, after all that, we recall the half-season transition running several episodes after the end of the season 1-2 uniform, the season 3 uniforms having two seams up the front until altered sometime in the middle of that year.
Posted by Captain Boh (Member # 1282) on :
He also probably had more than one of each, since they would likely get rather worn...
And don't they generally sell those off anyway?
Posted by Dat (Member # 302) on :
So to sum up the uniforms Spiner wore... regardless of ranks pips, communicator pins, duplications, different fabrics or color brightness... 1. Season 1 uniform in gold 2. 1st half season 3 uniform in gold (collar design as in later TNG series uniform, two seams along front on left and right sides, form fitting like season 1 uniform, no belt) 3. 2nd half season 3 uniform in gold (used in rest of series) 4. Yesterday's Enterprise alternate uniform in gold 5. Season 3 dress uniform in gold (design used in rest of series and different from seasons 1 and 2 dress uniform design) 6. 2nd half season 3 uniform in red 7. DS9 season 1 jumpsuit in gold 8. FC uniform in gold 9. Insurrection dress uniform in gold (though he didn't get the uniform until Nemesis)
Posted by Tora Ziyal (Member # 53) on :
quote: As for the context of his comment: I still think he was serious and is a nerd.
I seem to recall Spiner saying some years ago that he was never a Star Trek fan. For him to go from that and barely tolerating fan obsession to this comment seems very out of character.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
"Engineering work uniform" is another uniform worn sporadically throughout the series. Lore wore it in "Datalore" - I'm pretty sure Data wore it on a few other occasions.
Seriously - I wonder if they were given a uniform at the end of the series? I know Marina Sirtis said at a convention that she stole a few of the dresses. Like the Lilac Season 4 dress. Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
Proto-Data wore an Engineering uniform in NEM.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
My guess is that most of the uniforms are kept for extras use (see the occasional infuriating appearance of TNG uniforms on DS9), but the main cast most likely got some authorized and unauthorized mementos.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
quote:Originally posted by Tora Ziyal: I seem to recall Spiner saying some years ago that he was never a Star Trek fan. For him to go from that and barely tolerating fan obsession to this comment seems very out of character.
It strikes me that he was taking the piss, if anything.
Posted by Ultra Manjuice (Member # 239) on :
This discussion, all threads within, is the worst thing that humanity has ever spawned.
Posted by Obi Juan (Member # 90) on :
quote:Originally posted by Dat: It wasn't the production or writing... or even the directing. It was the lousy editing and the scheduled release date.
So it wouldn't have been a shit movie if it hadn't been released around the same time as The Two Towers? Does that mean Threshold would have been a great episode had been released at a different time so that Cop Rock was its stiffest competition?
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Of course it still would have been shit if it had been released at a diferent time. But it would have made more money.
Posted by Futurama IV Skin (Member # 968) on :
shit money, desperate shit money.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
quote:Originally posted by TSN: Of course it still would have been shit if it had been released at a diferent time. But it would have made more money.
Be thankful it did not make big money: otherwise we'd already have a new film in the works written exclusivly by Spiner/Stewart and it would involve even more car chases, clones and "reset-button deaths".....but no scenes for Geordi, Riker or Crusher, of course.
...and I still think Nemesis was better than STV. Probably better than STVI as well, frankly.
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jason Abbadon: ...and I still think Nemesis was better than STV.
Most. Ludicrous. Statement. Ever.
TFF had some really great character moments and probably did the best job overall of capturing the feeling of the series it stemmed from when compared to both its predecessors and successors. This cannot in any way be said of Nemesis.
quote:Probably better than STVI as well, frankly.
As much as I roll my eyes at so many parts of TUC, I still have to give it more credit than that. It was effective and entertaining where it needed to be. Nemesis is the worst Trek film. Of ALL of them. The WORST. I stand by this opinion even after multiple re-viewings.
-MMoM
P.S. Just to clarify, I don't mean to say that there was absolutely nothing entertaining or effective about NEM, just that there was decidedly more in every other Trek film.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
NEM left me cold and cheated. Moreso than any episode could. The film had no heart. Heck, it didn't even have a gimmic. Fuck those who say Trek fans argue of tech stuff (yes we do here) BUT we know when a MOVIE SUCKS. NEM sucked, it sucked Naussican Grombaa.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jason Abbadon: ...and I still think Nemesis was better than STV. Probably better than STVI as well, frankly.
*slaps Jason around with an oily rag* you get 2 hours W.O.O. Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Nem and STV suffer from the same major flaw: actor's egos were allowed to dominate what should've been a good story- okay, not in STV's case: that plot is just BAD).
STVI just gets worse and more obviously cliche' each time i see it: it's like watching Red Dawn in it's obvious hackened political overtones from the time the movie premiered.
Klingons rely on one small moon for all their energy? Somehow the moon's destruction will destroy their homeworld's ozone layer? the fuck?!? The whole premise for the movie is nothing but sound bytes from 1990's CNN. Klingons have pepto Bismol for blood? Their security is so lax that they allowed Kirk to wear a big black tracking device -that Enterprise SOMEHOW can track sectors away?!? All of starfleet is out smelling gaseous anomalies? Dumb. Add to that Valeris' role was obviously supposedly to have been Savvik... and the hideously cheesy "operate on a torpedo scene".
For all it's crappy moments, Nem has some good acting on Marina Sirtis' part 9and I normally loathe her performances), brief cameo by Wesley and a nice line between Worf and riker about Romulan honor....showing that Worf at least developed since TNG.
Everything dropped from Nemesis should have been dropped though: all those scenes with the new first officer were worthless in the extreme.
Posted by Cartman (Member # 256) on :
STX: -EVIL PICARD CLONE -DUMB DATA CLONE
STVI: -COLD WAR ANALOGIES
STV: -ROCK MONSTERS -GOD
HAH YOU LOSE AMERICAN ASSHOLE
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Toss my salad, loser: STVI- no plot meant for absent actresses and involving cheap headlines and sound-bytes instead of story. Nice Excelsior scenes, admittidly. 250 lb Kirk fighting himself in the snow. Everyone in starfleet's a bigot. Scooby-Doo ending.
STV- 76 decks on Enterprise, a crew of what? 15? Spock's long-lost-never-mentioned-idiot-brother. God, Uhura making everyone in the theatre wretch up their popcorn by dancing nekkid, Scotty knocking himslf out on low-hanging-exposed pipes ON A FUCKING SPACESHIP!
Gimmie Picard's dumbass dune-buggy over that horseshit any ol' day.
Posted by The Captain from M.I.K.E. (Member # 709) on :
i would enjoy looking into a wierd funhouse mirror where Nemesis is somehow better than ST6, but i havent found the right drug to make it possible..
hints?
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
quote:Originally posted by AndrewR: Fuck those who say Trek fans argue of tech stuff (yes we do here) BUT we know when a MOVIE SUCKS.
Your argument is shot down (or validated, possibly) by:
quote:Originally posted by Jason Abbadon: STV- 76 decks on Enterprise,
quote:Originally posted by Jason Abbadon: Klingons rely on one small moon for all their energy? Somehow the moon's destruction will destroy their homeworld's ozone layer? the fuck?!?
...
All of starfleet is out smelling gaseous anomalies? Dumb.
And I'm not saying that I agree with the stuff I cut out. But not liking ST V on the basis that they count the number of decks wrong (which immedietly means that First Contact must be a dreadful, dreadful film), or hating ST VI because all of Starfleet's ships have been modified to catalogue gaseous anomalies (my god, how far out crazy shit mad is that? With rabbits!) doesn't excourage my belief that Star Trek fans really know what is good and bad about a film.
And I'm no scientist, but the idea of a moon exploding (a moon used for mining some super amazing gas, no less) somehow damaging the atmosphere of the planet it orbits doesn't really strike me as that daft.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
It's only daft to think that an entire interstellar empire would crumble at the loss of a single world.
It's like saying the Federation would fall if Tellar were lost or that starfleet would cease to exist in a generation if the academey were destroyed.
It's just something silly and "catchphrasey" about the whole non-sensical "in a decade their ozone will be depleted" line that makes me wince.
These guys have had FTL capabilities for how many hundreds of years? They cant just move their shit somewhere else in ten year's time?
They went waaaaay too far with the Soviet collapse comparison for the story to make snay sense after that.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
I can imagine Klingons being very emotionally attached to their homeworld. Moving somewhere else would be admitting defeat, or something else un-Klingon.
Besides, as the shows and movies imply time and time again, the Federation would be slightly fucked if Earth were to be destroyed. They'd carry on, but it would weaken them significantly. And that's for a body made up of many, many different aliends. If it were just humans, I'd imagine that Earth would be even more vital.
Posted by Captain Boh (Member # 1282) on :
Well... I enjoyed Nemisis. It wasn't an amazing movie going experience... but it was fun
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
"...a nice line between Worf and riker about Romulan honor....showing that Worf at least developed since TNG."
We had four years of DS9 that did a much better job of showing character development in Worf than a single line in a movie.
Posted by The Captain from M.I.K.E. (Member # 709) on :
and remember how Nemesis insightfully provided in depth, thought provoking revelations about the rich tapestry of Geordi and Dr. Crusher's lives..
(he's staying, she's leaving.. )
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
As opposed to STII-VI that developed so much backstory on Sulu, Chekov and (the still first-nameless) Uhura.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Uhura got to flirt with Scotty, and perhaps do a naked sand dance for him. An come on... that's more important than a silly first name.
Why was Crusher leaving the ship again? Wasn't it something stupid having to do with Starfleet Medical again?
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
I think the dialogue about her leaving was among the dropped scenes....she got even less mention in the actual film.
No great loss, but it made the movie focus even tightly on the old Picard/Data team-up that could've been expected when the actors playing those parts are give a maesure of creative control.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
"As opposed to STII-VI that developed so much backstory on Sulu, Chekov and (the still first-nameless) Uhura."
Well, technically, they weren't main characters in the first place. The show was meant to be about Kirk, Spock, and McCoy.
TNG, on the other hand, was never intended to be "The Picard/Data Hour".
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Oh yeah?
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
...yeah.
Oh Jason - sorry buddy but you are running a losing battle.
You are trying to argue the merits of a film based on tech and not on the quality of the film i.e. it's story/plot, acting, direction etc.
If you want to hold Nemesis up in the tech departement - how about Riker going to fight the Viceroy on a Deck two below the number that the E-E has... THEN dropping down a number of other decks before the Viceroy falls to his death down a long shaft - i.e. this all should take place out side of this ship they have gone down so many decks!
Just a few things on your tech points - Klingons and Praxis. Klingons and Kronos etc. The Klingons clearly have a centralised society. See tech arguments don't work.
Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country - had a great story, it had the tradition Trek commentary on humanity. It had something for ALL the regulars to do. It was suspensful. It was fun. It still had the spirit of the Original Series. It passed the torch nicely to TNG. (There should have been none of that in Generations). The Effects were great, the score was great - Non fans could identify and enjoy the movie (I was not a 'trekker' when I saw it - I really had no idea of Trek - but I *loved that film*.) It really blew me away. It was a mature, intelligent, thought-provoking, fun, exciting space adventure. And most of all... it had heart.
Nemesis was a tired, cliched, boring, plodding, wooden, murky, emotionally bankrupt, directionless, pastiche of a movie that clearly has signs of 'too many cooks'.
The movie would have made a half-bad two hour episode of Voyager.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Ohh......I dont know, Andrew. Nemesis was bad.
....but STVI just gets worse and more hackened with age. It's overly militaristic and xenophobic view of Starfleet is something that really bugs me as well: it just is not what it was about in TOS. (or what you'd expect anyone from that crew to say- not just Kirk).
Posted by Pensive's Left testes for mayor... (Member # 1203) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jason Abbadon: Ohh......I dont know, Andrew. Nemesis was bad.
....but STVI just gets worse and more hackened with age. It's overly militaristic and xenophobic view of Starfleet is something that really bugs me as well: it just is not what it was about in TOS. (or what you'd expect anyone from that crew to say- not just Kirk).
Well, wasn't the time Like that? TMP ear wasn't supposed to be warm and cuddly like the first 2 seasons of TNG. assuming losely that the novels written at the time, any that covers that specific time, might be a clue to the nature, temperment and political leanings of the Federation at the time.
and throw in any non cannon events from Star Fleet Battles while your at it. sometime to justify STVI...
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Nooo....I'll not site anf SFB nonsenmse to make an argument.
I refer to how Gene's "bright future" of equality from TOS starkly contrasting the coldwar naval warfare mentality of STII-VI. Looks like the republicans took over the Federation arounf TMP.
Not that it can't work as a story, but really it dates the material in the 80's.
Posted by Mucus (Member # 24) on :
Kind of like how 9/11 Enterprise already feels outdated Posted by Cartman (Member # 256) on :
But season three ENT is the best Trek ever! Nobody speaks ill of season three ENT and lives! NOBODY!
Posted by Mucus (Member # 24) on :
Or TOS and its space hippies and black-white guys.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Space hippies were alway pretty bad but the black and white guys are still pretty cool.
The only Enterprise episode (of season three) that'll stick in people's craw in future years is the one with the extremists taking over the ship with their suicide bombs.
I was actually impressed that they avoided a lot more direct comparisons with the headlines. For the most part, Archer and crew went there to resolve things peacefully and were'nt out for payback. The Xindi were'nt fanatics and they were'nt under any sort of ditatorship to be overthrown..... Thankfully.
Posted by Topher (Member # 71) on :
weren't Posted by Obi Juan (Member # 90) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jason Abbadon: Looks like the republicans took over the Federation arounf TMP.
Right after TMP actually. The Republicans� platform was to get rid of those stupid-ass uniforms (that were obviously designed by the aforementioned space hippies after they'd gotten hold of a bad batch of space acid).
Posted by Dat (Member # 302) on :
What a way to dig up an older topic.
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
9.4 overall score, but he let himself down on the dismount.
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