Anyone have the actual text of this e-mail and care to spill?
Mark
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
I didn't read the whole thread, and it's kind of hard to glean the details from what people are talking about, but I don't really care for the idea that the Romulans know who the Vulcans (that is, in relation to themselves) but the Vulcans don't know who the Romulans are. Personally, I think Vulcan actions in Enterprise prior to this season make more sense if you assume that the Vulcans know more about the Romulans than they're letting on. (For instance, why are the Vulcans so eager to set up client states like Earth close to the Romulan Empire? I think I've weakly ranted about this before, but were I in charge, I'd have it all part of a grand Vulcan strategy to surround the Romulans with Vulcan allies before the Romulans can do the opposite. But, that's just me.)
Posted by DoughBoy05 (Member # 1417) on :
This is what I gleaned out of those posts
Spoilers
Spoilers
Andorians have albino telepaths.
Andorians hate Tellarites more than Vulcans.
Romulans will not be seen but will use remote control to pilot thier ships so the Vulcans don't find out they are related.
Q may be responsible for the Klingons getting thier bumpies taken away for a while.
Vulcans and Andorians combine forces to destroy a Romulan invasion with the help of Archer, and the Romulans then blame Archer for thier setback and sets up the Earth-Romulan War.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
See, again, I'd prefer it if the Romulans launched an attack on Earth to keep it out of Vulcan hands, rather than because Earth got in the way of an attack on Vulcan directly; but perhaps all that Vietnam talk this past year has unduly affected my tastes.
Posted by DoughBoy05 (Member # 1417) on :
Does anyone have the actual report? I wouldnt mind spoiling myself rotten! Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Well, it looks like the first rule of the e-mail is you don't talk about the e-mail. Probably at least twenty people in that thread asked where the e-mail came from and how to get it, and everyone pretended they weren't even there.
As for Romulans knowing about Vulcans, Simon, I'd say it makes sense. The first Romulans would have passed the story down through the generations about how they escaped their oppresors on Vulcan, or something. The Vulcans, on the other hand, didn't keep track of the renegades who fled the planet 2000 years earlier. When some unseen aliens calling themselves "Romulans" show up, why do you think the Vulcans would say "gee, I wonder if they're descended from those people who left Vulcan twenty generations ago, even though there is no evidence that would even cause such a thought to occur to me"?
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
That's not quite my favored interpretation. What I'm saying is that I like the idea that the Vulcans know that the Romulans, perhaps not necessarily by that name, left Vulcan traveling in some general direction, perhaps for some specific destination, perhaps not, and that ever since they've either been successfully keeping tabs on them or are just sort of generally aware of where they probably are, and have been planning accordingly.
I mean, I'm not insisting that the Vulcans know exactly who the Romulans are prior to "Balance of Terror," though I think that's a neat idea.
Moreover, I don't think there's any reason to think that my favored version is more or less likely than any other. The whole Romulan/Human conflict thing is hazy enough to allow for almost any interpretation. I'm just suggesting what I'd like to see.
(Having said that, what about the reference from Voyager to a war between Romulus and Vulcan? I got the impression that it wasn't the civil war that led to their split that was being described, but rather that it was implying some sort of interplanetary conflict after that point but presumably prior to Vulcan joining the Federation.)
Basically, I like the idea of there being some underlying strategy behind Vulcans taking planets like Earth under their wing, as it were, and I think that it would provide a handy provocation to war, as well as making certain Vulcan actions less sinister (They wanted to hold back human exploration because they didn't want us encountering the Romulans before we were ready.) and others more so. (They were grooming humanity to be their foot soldiers in a potential conflict without letting us know about it.)
(Also, perhaps the reason they were so unwilling to send ships into the Delphic Expanse to look for the Xindi is because they felt that was only a feint intended to distract from a Romulan invasion. After all, if the Vulcans were planning on waging their war by proxy, then surely the Romulans would be as well, or so the Vulcans would assume.)
But, like I said, this is just what I'd personally like to see.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
I think its a bogus bunch of bullshit, perpetuated by a few on that board as a mean joke.
I mean when they started talking about the Klingon 'problem' I knew they were just slimy fan-boys egging on others who read the thread.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
"But, like I said, this is just what I'd personally like to see."
I had interpreted your original post not as "this is my idea", but as "their way makes no sense; here's my idea". And I was pointing out why their way made sense. But, if that wasn't your intention...
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
quote:I think its a bogus bunch of bullshit, perpetuated by a few on that board as a mean joke.
I would have thought so as well, if I didn't already know that one of the posters confirming the rumor actually works for the show.
quote:Q may be responsible for the Klingons getting thier bumpies taken away for a while.
No, that's not true. You misread the post. When the member "Quills" made his post implying that the big secret was the reason for the Klingon'a TOS appaerance, he signed his post "Q". He didn't mean that Q was responsible.
quote:Having said that, what about the reference from Voyager to a war between Romulus and Vulcan?
Simon, I really think that you should treat this line for what it is...a throwaway line. Voyager and DS9 were full of them. The one writer for that one episode made this one vague statement, which has not been backed up in any way by any further evidence. He might as well have said "the hundred-years war between the Terellians and the Tyreleans," for all that the line would matter. It's best left ignored, IMHO.
So apparently, the rumor about the next ST movie involving the Romulan war, with an entirely new cast of characters, was either just BS, or TPTB realized just how stupid a premise like that would be for a movie (not the Rommie War itself, but the use of new actors no one has ever seen in Star Trek before).
Either way, if what I've read turns out to be true, then I'm very excited to see what happens this season. Unfortunately, I still have no doubt in my mind that no matter how good this season might be, it will be the last.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Well, I mean, that's true, but what isn't a throwaway line? And how are DS9 and Voyager full of them while TNG and TOS are not? I mean, I see what you're getting at. It's just something I've thought would be cool. But by the same token, the whole idea that the "Earth/Romulan War" was fought between Earth and Romulus, as opposed to the Federation and Romulus, sort of occupies the same ideaspace. I mean, at that point in Star Trek everything was "Earth" or "human" even though later in the show those references get redacted to "Federation."
Anyway, lots of what we focus on as "canon" and important is, ultimately, fairly arbitrary. (Well, being fiction, ultimately all of it is arbitrary, but you know what I mean.)
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
We don't have to literally throw away that particular line, of course. These are Q speaking, after all: if one caused a hundred-year Vulcan-Romulan war, the other may easily have "uncaused" it, erasing it from our timeline.
In any case, I'm definitely in love with Manny and his cohorts. The Romulan angle here seems just convoluted enough to fit my personal tastes: not a mere rationalization, but a rationalization with a twist of lemon (and I do like lemon).
"Ancient writings of Surak"... I wonder if they've got clearance to mention one S'Task here?
But... Klingon foreheads "explained"? Now I'm trembling. I hope the explanation will be sufficiently comedic. Or tear-jerking dramatic. If it's merely plausible, then it's an opportunity wasted.
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
quote:"Ancient writings of Surak"... I wonder if they've got clearance to mention one S'Task here?
Unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on your point of view), S'Task and pretty much every other reference from Diane Duane's pre-TNG envisionings of Vulcan & the Romulans have been ignored in favor of the newer Sherman & Schwartz books, especially "Vulcan's Soul: Exodus," with a quite different take on Surak's era.
Of course, whatever ENT has up its sleeve could be different as well...
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
I'm still awaiting a soft-cover "Exodus", having been generally satisfied with "Forge" and "Heart" and not finding much in the way of explicit contradictions of the Rihannsu interpretation...
Of course, ENT has already canonically outdated some of Duane's work, by giving us an interstellar Vulcan monastery a millennium before Surak. It is a rather major departure from Duane's writing that Vulcan would already be an interstellar colonizing power when they go from warlike to pacifist-logical - but then again, it's exactly what Spock says in "Balance of Terror"! Duane must have ignored that one, or then she thought that Spock was speaking of dirtside colonization rather than interstellar colonization.
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by DoughBoy05 (Member # 1417) on :
Hmm not much chance of seeing Starships Balboa or Stone Mountain or Carrizal from Duane's work on old ENT either eh?
Posted by TheWoozle (Member # 929) on :
If you think about it, for the romulans to leave Vulcan with enough population to start a viable colony, dozen or hundreds of light years away from Vulcan, they HAD to have had a fairly advanced level of technology for some while before the exodus.
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
I'm not sure I agree...a handful of modest low-warp ships with a few hundred or thousand dissidents would be a sufficent 'start'.
Just for example, look at "The Ensigns of Command" and the case of the SS Artemis on Tau Cygna V. Although no original numbers were given and there was an unknown number of casualties from their crash -- 1 ship of colonists managed to grow to 15,000 in less than 100 years -- despite complications with radiation exposure.
If a similar case happened with the Romulans -- since their numbers (ie: x to 15,000 in 100 yrs) are growing exponentially, their "colony" would be quite well-established in ~1000 years.
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
...Although wouldn't it be interesting to find out that the Romulans actually are a tiny oligarchy of just a few thousand people, ruling their Star Empire and running their starships via Remans and other slave troops, plus a pitiful few elite Romulan field units?
OTOH, Duane described a culture that did not have "well established" starflight, and for that very reason launched people in the hundreds of thousands, in what were really O'Neill colonies with warp engines bolted to their asses. Very little chance of seeing that now... Although name-dropping the Carrizal or S'Harien or the Wretched Root wouldn't hurt.
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
I wonder if they will mention the Debrune....or rather, remember to mention the fact that the Romulans were not the only Vulcan offshoot to leave Vulcan....that is, thinking back to "Gambit".
Posted by Topher (Member # 71) on :
Actually I think it was mentioned that the Debrune were a Romulan offshoot... So a bunch of Vulcans leave, not satisified with the way things are going, and become the Romulans. Then, a bunch of Romulans take off, still not satisified with the way things are going and become the Debrune...
Posted by DoughBoy05 (Member # 1417) on :
Barradas III, Dessica II, Calder II, Yadalla Prime, and Draken IV where some of the planets connected to the Debrune, Vulcans and Romulans
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
like i said....
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
Let's remember that when queried about the possibility of negotiating with the Romulans, Spock said that Vulcan once had a "brutal colonization period". One interpretation is that this period was on planet Vulcan, and Spock was merely pointing out that people like Vulcans are brutal by nature, so Romulans and other Vulcan-looking people must be, too. Flimsy logic IMHO.
The other interpretation is that this colonization period directly resulted in the Romulans and the other offshoot. But Spock is being awfully vague if that's the case.
I'd be happiest if the Romulans indeed were Surak-era secessionists rather than brutal colonists (I admit those aren't mutually exclusive, but still...), and the Debrune and possible others were a continuation of this secessionism, whereas the other offshoot resulted from the brutal pre-Surakian interstellar colonialism. To leave open this possibility, I'd like ENT to concentrate on the Romulans and not nail down the others, even by innocent name-dropping.
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
I would rather they focused more on the Orions and Andorians and Tellarites and such...especially with the latter two, I don't see much work towards forging alliances as of late...
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
I thought what happened was that as the Romulans travelled, they stopped at the above planets and intermingled with the native populations, introducing their DNA in sufficient quantitities to be detected even centuries later.
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
Or as the dissidents travelled along they further splintered off to those other planets, but since the Romulans were the only surviving or most influential of the dissidents that they were known the main group whereas the rest became known their offshoots...I dunno, once its all said and done, it really doesn't matter.
Posted by TheWoozle (Member # 929) on :
Hmm.. What if the Romulans where a Penal Colony, like Australia? The Vulcans might have sent them off, to die or colonize, then forgot all about them.
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
Suffice to say that on this subject, I dearly hope that ENT dares challenge all the dusty old fan views and assumptions.
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by Fleet-Admiral Michael T. Colorge (Member # 144) on :
Didn't that happen when TNG went on the air?
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
Hey, let's not forget the Mentakans. Another lost colony, descended to medievalism? A seeded world?
Mark
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
I think they were called "proto-Vulcans". I think the implication was that they were evolving along a similar path the Vulcans did. Which, to the writers meant making them all logical and stuff. It really should've made them barbaric. But that's neither here nor there.
My point is, I don't think they were an offshoot race, merely an evolutionary coincedence.
Posted by Topher (Member # 71) on :
Even though they looked more proto-TNG Romulan...
Posted by Woodside Kid (Member # 699) on :
Let's also not forget that, in "Return To Tomorrow", Spock said that the colonization actions of Sargon's people more than half a million years ago might explain some aspects of Vulcan prehistory. That opens the question of where exactly did the Vulcan gene pool originate.
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
"The Chase"
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
After that, though, I think he means.
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
either or
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
So, yeah. This e-mail shit is real. Really. Trust me. Posted by Topher (Member # 71) on :
Then share it with the rest of us!
Posted by DoughBoy05 (Member # 1417) on :
hmm yes share!
[email protected] Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
Actually, pretty much all of the info just comes out within a week on TrekToday. So no worries. I think it's just "the secret factor" that gets people all interested.
Posted by DoughBoy05 (Member # 1417) on :
ahh!
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
quote:Originally posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim: So, yeah. This e-mail shit is real. Really. Trust me.
Say what email?
Posted by DoughBoy05 (Member # 1417) on :
There's an e-mail going around with script info on TrekBBS regarding some of the later episodes for this season
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
I'd say more but I have to get to my Wednesday morning Fight Club meeting...
Posted by Topher (Member # 71) on :
Okay, that's just fucking annoying. Bandying about the email and not being able to talk about it. Christ. 99% of those wackos over at TrekBBS never come here anyways.
(Not you specifically, Mim. Just the whole setup of the situation.)
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
Yeah, well, there are legal issues. Apparently, whoever is leaking this stuff at Paramount could get in a great deal of trouble, and the administration at the TrekBBS was concerned enough about possible retaliation from Viacom that they banned mention of the e-mail list on the board. The contents of the e-mails are PDF files generated from photocopied pages of actual scripts from as-yet-unfilmed/unfinished episodes.
I would like to share this stuff with you guys, but I'm still trying to figure out the best way of doing so. I obviously can't post this guy's address here or anywhere else. I could e-mail it to people, but I'm worried that if he gets a sudden influx of people wanting in on this that he'll get nervous and shut the whole thing down. I also thought of collecting e-mail addresses and just sending the reports to you guys as I get them. Sort of starting my own little list. But I'm not entirely sure I could keep up with it and I'm wondering about the possibility of it being traced back to me if someone gets mad. I wonder if it's really worth it, considering that, as I said, there isn't really much of anything in the reports that doesn't get summarized by TrekToday within a week.
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mark Nguyen: Found this on TrekBBS. Spoilers, yo:
Anyone have the actual text of this e-mail and care to spill?
Mark
I'm starting to come to the conclusion that we are like the red headed stepchild of the Trek boards when it comes to having an edge on the future of the franchise as seen above....
Posted by DoughBoy05 (Member # 1417) on :
If it makes you all feel better I've lurked in both BBSes for years but got off my keaster and joined on...this onee, not the other...except no substitutes Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
Accept, dammit.
Posted by DoughBoy05 (Member # 1417) on :
hmm...right..my bad. I'm letting down the Canadian educational system.
Posted by Topher (Member # 71) on :
Holy fuck! Another NB'er! Where are you located at, DoughBoy05?
Posted by DoughBoy05 (Member # 1417) on :
The Capital of our fine Province...Freddy Beach
Posted by DoughBoy05 (Member # 1417) on :
Nerepis? Where's that? Is that by Saint John by a marsh or something isn't it?
Posted by Topher (Member # 71) on :
Nerepis is a little patch of houses about 20 minutes outside of Saint John... I'm currently in Fredericton for school. If you're a manager of a Radio Shack then you were at the job fair, no? You should have hired me! Posted by DoughBoy05 (Member # 1417) on :
Actually no I was the only manager NOT at the job fair this time around
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