Well the episode has aired and all I have to say is Fuck; Its over, its really over.
As far as the episode goes, it wasn't as bad as I thought it was. The Earth didn't shake but I'm not disappointed.
Well if you'll excuse me, I have to go drown my sorrows in processed sugar and carbonated water.
Posted by Mighty Blogger Snay (Member # 411) on :
the final sequence was, actually, pretty neat.
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
Yes, the paper-thin plot of the Pegasus and the wierd acting of Jolene Blalock aside, the ep wasn't as bas as everyone was saying. However, I'd be remiss if I didn't point out two things:
1. Trip's death was abso-friggin-lutely unnecessary to the story. It just came out of nowhere, was acted horribly by everyone, and ended very idiotically (Trip's goofy smile, then, next scene, he's dead!) But what made it all the more useless was that after it happend, everyone was acting like it, well, didn't happen. No one said anything about it at all, not his crewmates, his former Vulcan friend/lover/masseuse, not even Archer! It's almost as if the whole scene was just inserted after the fact, and the reason why we didn't see Trip at the ceremony was because he was in the bathroom or something.
2. The fact that the speech that Trip gave his life (!) so that Archer could give, was, well, not even seen. Instead, we get a terrific view of Frakes's and Sirtis's backsides as they exit the holodeck.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Oh man, soda is for the hardcore sorrows!
Posted by Wee Bairns (Member # 1324) on :
I was very impressed with most of the set recreations, especially Ten-Forward and the Observation Lounge. Yhey both looked spot-on, to me at least. The corridors, on the other hand just didn't seem right.
Posted by Mighty Blogger Snay (Member # 411) on :
I came in ten minutes late, so I didn't see the Ten Forward set. I agree with the Observation Lounge, but I thought the corridor set we saw was well done. I did think the doors were the wrong shade of orange, though ...
Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
Was that shot of Picard a body double, or reused footage?
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
I did notice that the turbolift looked absolutely nothing like the actual one.
Posted by Mighty Blogger Snay (Member # 411) on :
Hey - in the establishing shot of the room where the Federation accord was to be signed, did anyone notice that the red carpet was jumping all over the place? The CGI in that scene struck me as especially horrid.
Posted by Dat (Member # 302) on :
From what I saw of inaccuracies:
The interior holodeck doors were orange when they were supposed to be grey
The interior Observation Lounge doors were also orange when they're supposed to be grey, plus, they were labeled when they're not supposed to be.
The E-D turbolift was completely off.
There was a Kazon there on Rigel X when no one in the quadrant knew of them.
The E-D cgi was great, but the reg number on the pylons were missing.
But hey, NX-01 is a museum ship that survives up to the mid-24th century!
They're working on the Warp 7 project! (Which may be why NX-01 is being decommed.)
Nothing seems to contradict the Sato and Archer bios from the Defiant's historical database.
I was hoping for some name dropping of some other Starfleet ships in reference to the crew's future assignments. It would have been nice to see some other ships as well, but this was from Riker and Troi's standpoint.
Posted by Neutrino 123 (Member # 1327) on :
From what I gathered, there are already ships with warp 7 (at least being built). It would be silly to decomission technology one generation old if the new things aren't out yet...
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
Hey guys, there's a thread in the Tech forum for this. Episode discussions here!
Mark
Posted by Krenim (Member # 22) on :
Well, it wasn't bad (a step up from "Endgame", certainly), but it wasn't good either. It does work better for me as a finale to Trek as a whole than a finale to Enterprise, but only marginally so.
Trip and Shran really got the short end of the stick here. Trip didn't need to die, and Shran didn't need booted from the Imperial Guard and made into a criminal.
It was good to see Riker and Troi again, although I still think it would have been better to see them around the time of Nemesis. Troi's short conversation with Data elicited a grin.
I really wanted a line or so in which Archer (with a wink and a nod) comes up with the name "United Federation of Planets."
No mention of the Romulan War, but Riker does seem to establish that there was no ban on cloaking tech prior to the Treaty of Algeron.
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
Yeah I was disappointed with the way Shran was portrayed. Considering all he's done for Enterprise that was not the way to portray a character for the last time (Well at least he was a good father).
The entire scene where Trip dies was sort of stupid. He seemed outta character. I feel a better way to die would have been for the alien guy to attempt to shoot Archer and Trip getting in the way of the blast.
Posted by Guardian 2000 (Member # 743) on :
Actually, I think "Endgame" was better, since at that point they just didn't really care. This was just a foul ruining of both Enterprise S4 and a previously-good Ron D. Moore TNG ep, and I think it was intentional on both counts.
Posted by Epoch (Member # 136) on :
Over the years I have been pretty supportive of Enterprise but this ep made me want my hour back. This was a horrible ending for the series. It would have made a much better season episode but not an ender to anything. Trip dying was just Berman and Braga trying to get everyone watching all emotional, and they failed. The scene was garbage. Makes me wish for a reset button.
Posted by Mucus (Member # 24) on :
I just have one thing to say for now.
We never found out who Future Guy was, proving IIRC my old assertion in S1 that TPTB were just pulling long term plot stuff out of their collective asses ala X-Files.
I laugh at those of you that were optimistic in S1!
Hah!
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
I'm only about halfway through the episode, but: it is a little odd that the plot of the very last episode of Enterprise revolves arounds Shran's troubles with the space mafia.
Also, I guess problems with the actual Enterprise parts of this episode could be fudged by remembering that it's just a recreation, and since I doubt there were cameras around all the time, some of it must be based on later recollections and historical reconstructions.
Posted by deadcujo (Member # 13) on :
I'm glad I finally got to see Riker get some closure. It was the perfect ending to a show that had nothing to do with him. Yay!
Posted by Pensive's Wetness (Member # 1203) on :
quote:Originally posted by, well, someone on ALFA's open forum: they wrote many of the stories outright, and definitely monopolized the creative direction of the shows which have been increasingly lackluster. I don't know anything about the behind-the-scenes stuff either, but look at the output. There's lots of good creative sci-fi out there, but Star Trek seems to have spend a lot of its time navel-gazing. I'm not going to do a whole essay on that, just suffice it to say I'm glad the 'vision' part is out of their hands.
is it? i'm gonna ask Flare just that. there is plans for a movie still, new cast, set around the Rom wars themselves....
which would have occured had Paramountahorse DID something other suckle those fscks Beener & Beener....
so i ask this? Is ST offically and contractorly out of their hands, will they be gracitiou shown the door and a boot in the anus?
pray tell, i hope their next show IS reality related with goat fucking... Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
While the historical recreation of Enterprise's final voyage would be based on crew reports, historical papers and psych profiles, at least it would have FELT real given the magic of the holodeck (at least to a Leah Brahms sort of level). Technically speaking, I'm sure Starfleet had accurate historical representations of what the ship, uniforms, and people really looked like at the time. So I'm sure it would be believeable enough for Riker to accept it as genuine advice...
Mark
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
While the historical recreation of Enterprise's final voyage would be based on crew reports, historical papers and psych profiles, at least it would have FELT real given the magic of the holodeck (at least to a Leah Brahms sort of level). Technically speaking, I'm sure Starfleet had accurate historical representations of what the ship, uniforms, and people really looked like at the time. So I'm sure it would be believeable enough for Riker to accept it as genuine advice...
Mark
Posted by Veers (Member # 661) on :
This wasn't a terrible episode, though it was the weakest of all the finales (even "Endgame"). I actually enjoyed how they worked this episode into the plot of a previous episode, and I especially enjoyed the CG E-D. However, they needed a stronger plot for this episode...maybe it should have centered around the founding of the Federation and had nothing to do with Shran. For once, no phase-firing action scenes?
I didn't like the way Tucker died, either; it just seemed out of character for him to all of a sudden blow himself up.
(As to the previous episode, "Terra Prime"...The "Carl Sagan Memorial Station?" It might as well be the "Carl Sagan Memorial Boulder.")
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
I'm not sure I follow. The Carl Sagan Memorial Station is real. It's on Mars right now. Well, minus the picket fence. See?
As to the episode: the problem with it as a finale is, I think, that if everything had gone wrong, the worst possible outcome is that Archer doesn't give a speech. (Well, and Shran's daughter dies, maybe, which would be sad.) The Federation still gets founded. Perhaps even a little sooner, now that the ceremony's schedule has been truncated.
That's a pretty minor peril to hang an ending on.
Anyway, perhaps the Riker and Troi parts were themselves on some holodeck further in the future, called up by some strange alien who needed some historical advice about what to do when you need historical advice.
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
And even if it had been a bigger peril to hang on to, every possible moment of emotion or significance was complety destroyed by a fat bloke in tight TNG suit reminding us that we're watching computer generated simulations of the actual crew.
Since the NX-01 is unlikely to have recorded every single detail of the characters (like the personal conversations with Chef), it's obvious that we're watching holographic semi-sentient persona, that are in no way related to the real ENT crew. They were programmed by 24th century holo-novelists. It was an episode about.. nothing.
Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
Anyway, perhaps the Riker and Troi parts were themselves on some holodeck further in the future, called up by some strange alien who needed some historical advice about what to do when you need historical advice.
B5 ripoffs are so 1990s, though.
Posted by Veers (Member # 661) on :
quote:Originally posted by Sol System: I'm not sure I follow. The Carl Sagan Memorial Station is real. It's on Mars right now. Well, minus the picket fence. See?
The thing is, the Memorial Station they showed is commemorated by a small obelisk, if I remember correctly. Couldn't they have done something a little more elaborate, maybe so visitors could find it while looking over a hill? I'm saying they might as well have given him a rock.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Well, they did give him a rock. Just a nicely carved one.
Posted by Mighty Blogger Snay (Member # 411) on :
quote:Was that shot of Picard a body double, or reused footage?
It was reused footage from the early third season. You can tell because a lot of the extras were still wearing the first & second season jumpsuit, while Picard was clearly wearing the two-part uniform.
Posted by Pensive's Wetness (Member # 1203) on :
quote:Originally posted by Harry: And even if it had been a bigger peril to hang on to, every possible moment of emotion or significance was complety destroyed by a fat bloke in tight TNG suit reminding us that we're watching computer generated simulations of the actual crew.
Since the NX-01 is unlikely to have recorded every single detail of the characters (like the personal conversations with Chef), it's obvious that we're watching holographic semi-sentient persona, that are in no way related to the real ENT crew. They were programmed by 24th century holo-novelists. It was an episode about.. nothing.
Enter-Field? Sein-Prise?
Posted by Captain Boh (Member # 1282) on :
I enjoied the episode. While it wasn't great as an Enterprise episode, it was fun to watch.
It was nice to see the D again. It was neat how they tied it in with an exsisting episode. I'm tempted to edit together a "The Pegasus" extended edition.
The death of the baby less than an hour earlier (nuts to commercials) is probably a contributing factor, but I cried during the ending with the TV Enterprises. I'll miss new Trek.
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
So, where do the ENT bits fit in?
I mean, sure, there's a lot of "off time" for Riker in "The Pegasus", but his actual change of heart seems to come in those short hours after entering the derelict and before being trapped within the asteroid. Surely "TATV" can't take place in that narrow timeslot!
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by Dat (Member # 302) on :
But Riker was jumping around a lot in timeframes in his program.
Posted by Siegfried (Member # 29) on :
The impression I got from "These Are the Voyages..." was that Riker finished his holodeck journey of discovery before the Pegasus had been found in the asteroid. That raises the issue of why Riker, confident in his decision to inform Picard of what was really going on, then waits until disaster struck to finally execute his decision. I do have to wonder if Berman and Braga completely rewatched "The Pegasus" before writing this episode because the two episodes just do not gel very well together.
In "The Pegasus", Riker's decision to rat out Admiral Pressman is spur of the moment. The bridge crew is discussing ways of getting out of their entrapment and the Romulan's offer to beam them off the Enterprise. In the middle of this, Riker spills the beans on the interphasic cloaking device recovered from the Pegasus.
"These Are the Voyages..." doesn't take this into account, which makes me wonder if the writers completely rewatched the episode in the first place. "These Are the Voyages..." ends with Riker saying he's made his decision and that he's on his way to gladly inform Picard of Pressman's and his treaty-breaking secret.
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
The last 30 seconds were beautiful. The rest was utter shite.
At least we are now free of the Pretenders to the Throne. The loss of such princes as Manny Coto and Mike Sussman is somewhat offset by that good.
--------------------
It's been a long road Getting from there to here It's been a long time But my time is finally near
And I can feel the change in the wind right now Nothing's in my way And they're not gonna hold me down no more No they're not gonna hold me down
'Cause I've got faith of the heart I'm going where my heart will take me I've got faith to believe I can do anything I've got strength of the soul And no one's gonna bend or break me I can reach any star I've got faith, I've got faith, faith of the heart
It's been a long night Trying to find my way Been through the darkness Now I've finally had my day
And I will see my dream come alive at last I will touch the sky And they're not gonna hold me down no more No they're not gonna change my mind
'Cause I've got faith of the heart I'm going where my heart will take me I've got faith to believe I can do anything I've got strength of the soul And no one's gonna bend or break me I can reach any star I've got faith, I've got faith, faith of the heart
I know that we're so cold We've seen the darkest days But now the winds I feel Are only winds of change I've been through the fire I've been through the rain But I'll be fine, oh yeah
'Cause I've got faith of the heart I'm going where my heart will take me I've got faith to believe I can do anything I've got strength of the soul And no one's gonna bend or break me I can reach any star I've got faith, I've got faith, faith of the heart
It's been a long road...
--------------------
Beyond the rim of the star-light My love Is wand'ring in star-flight I know He�ll find in star-clustered reaches Love, Strange love a starwoman teaches. I know His journey ends never His star trek Will go on forever. But tell him While he wanders his starry sea Remember, remember me.
-MMoM Posted by Pensive's Wetness (Member # 1203) on :
quote:Originally posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim: At least we are now free of the Pretenders to the Throne. The loss of such princes as Manny Coto and Mike Sussman is somewhat offset by that good.
Are we? there is a movie in planning, yes? for the Rom War, with nujb crew? is Beener & Beener masterbating over this one?
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
Berman has been involved in the pre-production stages but it is likely that most of the major work on the film will take place after his contract expires, or so I've heard. Braga (by far, the worst of the pair) has had absolutely nothing to do with it.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
This reminds me that we never have to hear that song again, too.
My response needs to be heavy on profanity, as it involves Brannon Braga, who I heard was born when Satan had an abortion and then it walked around in a sewer, but not the clean ones from the Ninja Turtles, but both of my attempts so far have been unsatisfying, so I'll just say that I wholly agree that we need another Star Trek film like Nemesis, with hip new writers and directors, rather than anything like any Star Trek film that other loathsome person had something to do with, because his track record there is the worst of anyone!
If I ever had to watch any Star Trek movie Brannon Braga cowrote I'd kill myself!
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
Your mockery vexes me.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Well, I will take any reply that uses "vex" (as opposed to "I find incredibly annoying") as a sort of compliment. But, to sum my position up in a more straightforward manner: 1.) Attacks on Braga are just way, way, way over the top. 2.) Of modern Star Trek movies, his are probably the best. (I guess Generations might be controversial, but I think I enjoy it more than Insurrection or Nemesis, even though Nemesis does have neat explosions. But I'm willing to accept that my feelings may be colored by adolescent nostalgia.)
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
I'd agree with that, actually. Generations main problem is that it's a bit underwhelming when it shouldn't be (the death of Kirk), whereas Nemesis' problems are caused by a horrible feeling of disjointedness related to either bad editing or bad scripting.
I've watched Generations a few times, and it still has enough parts that resonate with me (the first shot of the Ent-B, Kirk's first "death", the battle with the BOP [yes, Riker's an idiot, but still], the crash, Picard's grief at losing his family, and even the humour work much better than they did in Insurrection and Nemesis [despite Insurrection being "the funny one"]).
So, yeah, I would also put Generations above Insurrection and Nemesis.
On the other hand, I like that song. So me an Simon are obviously heading for some kind of confrontation. IN THE RING!
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
Perhaps Chesney could cover it.
Posted by Cartman (Member # 256) on :
Simon could KO you just by turning around. You will not win.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
I would have to find a way of turning his main asset into his ultimate weakness. Perhaps with the aid of some cabbage.
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
"I've got. . . Faith of the Heart. . . Can't take that away from me. . ."
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
We can if we try.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Alright, I finally saw the episode. I'll try not to retread old arguments:
1) Utter crap. I've not been this disappointed since Voyager's "Threshold". What a floater. I didn't even like the closing montage.
2) The episode wasn't about anything related to Enterprise. It was a TNG episode. In theory, the show was about the end of the Enterprise's mission and the founding of the Federation. But it wasn't. The plot of the story was Riker trying to make up his mind. We didn't even get to hear Archer's speech. And the episode technically wasn't even real! It was a computer recreation of what *might* have happened based on personal logs, historical records, and possibly interviews. There's no way anyone could know what Chef talked to Trip about in the friggin' galley. Or what Malcom, Hoshi and Travis talked about while waiting for Archer's speech. It's the end of the mission, and we don't even get to see it how it *actually* happened.
3) T'Pol made absolutely no sense. Granted, it's 6 years in the future, but Terra Prime ended with such emotion and connection between Trip and T'Pol. Now we find out that they've had absolutely no romantic relationship all this time but now, suddenly, there's hope for it... but too late cause Trip died. Blalock's acting was funky, but I'm fairly certain it was due to bad direction rather than Blalock's skillz.
4) WHERE THE HELL WAS SECURITY?!?!! "We're being boarded! Now let's let the captain and chief engineer take care of it themselves without sending a single crewman to help." It's like the ship was deserted. Where are the MACOs, these uberMilitary commandos? They never even explained how the marauder ship caught up with them. And here again... this may not even be the way things actually happened because it was a holodeck episode!
5) An actual question: Did they get Brent Spiner to record dialoge for this? If not, where did the com message to Troi come from?
6) I watched "The Pegasus" right before watching "TATV" and there is virtually no way this episode could've happened during the events of that show. There just aren't enough breaks in the action for Riker to visit the holodeck all those times AND sit and chat with Troi.
7) Since when does Riker need to be hand-held and baby-sat to make tough decisions?
8) Troi knows an awful lot about the program for someone who's never run it herself. It's odd that Troi was so involved with "TATV" given that I don't even remember seeing her on the show during "The Pegasus". Was she even in that episode?
9) The only cool thing about this ep was the killer Enterprise-style footage of the Ent-D flying into and out of the asteroid field.
Bah!
Posted by Siegfried (Member # 29) on :
quote:Originally posted by Aban Rune: 5) An actual question: Did they get Brent Spiner to record dialoge for this? If not, where did the com message to Troi come from?
Yeah, they got Brent Spiner to come in and do his lines. In fact, he wrote his own lines. That exchange kind of made me groan, though.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
"We didn't even get to hear Archer's speech."
This is one complaint that I don't agree with. Considering the, uh, hit and miss nature of Archer's big speeches in the past, I don't think leaving this one up to the audience's imagination was a bad idea, necessarily.
Posted by DoughBoy05 (Member # 1417) on :
I would have like to have seen one of the "Warp seven beauties" that Reed mentionned.
Also did Tucker say the Enterprise was travelling at Warp 7 while doing thier toast thing before the 2nd run in with the baddies?
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
quote:Originally posted by Sol System: "We didn't even get to hear Archer's speech."
This is one complaint that I don't agree with. Considering the, uh, hit and miss nature of Archer's big speeches in the past, I don't think leaving this one up to the audience's imagination was a bad idea, necessarily.
Not hearing it is one thing, but cutting it off with "End Program" was just rude.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
"Also did Tucker say the Enterprise was travelling at Warp 7 while doing thier toast thing before the 2nd run in with the baddies?"
I originally thought he said they were "coasting at warp 7", but I went back and listened to it later and I think he said "toasting to warp 7".
Posted by DoughBoy05 (Member # 1417) on :
quote:Originally posted by TSN:
"Also did Tucker say the Enterprise was travelling at Warp 7 while doing thier toast thing before the 2nd run in with the baddies?"
I originally thought he said they were "coasting at warp 7", but I went back and listened to it later and I think he said "toasting to warp 7".
Toasting...well that makes more sense!
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
quote:I would have liked to have seen one of the "Warp seven beauties" that Reed mentioned.
Well, you could assume that they're either
a). The Daedalus class, or
b). Whatever ship will be seen in Berman's next movie, if the movie even gets made, which isn't even certain.
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
or c) old Vulcan ringships donated to UFP Starfleet now that the Vulcans no longer do their own fighting.
Thankfully enough, the episode didn't quite refer to warp 7 as if it were something new.
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by DoughBoy05 (Member # 1417) on :
The Daedalus seems so itty bitty compared to the NX Class and seems a bit on the shrimpy side to hit warp 7.
A Baton Rouge look a like would have been nifty.
Posted by The Ginger Beacon (Member # 1585) on :
Well that depends on how big the Daedalus class is.
I don't know if there is any 'real' length. I mean, the only time we saw it was in Siskos office in DS9. What was that, 16 inches?
I kinda see it as around 160m long (not the oft quoted 105). This gives it between 11 and 14 decks, which fits much better with the windows on Sisko's model.
Whats a Baton Rouge look like when its not flying at warp 7?
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
I choose to believe that the Daedalus does exist and looks like the model on Sisko's desk, except with alot more detail. Detail that, oddly enough, makes it look more like the NX-01.
Posted by Balaam Xumucane (Member # 419) on :
Wow, that was shitty. I have a question: was this the shot of Picard that Snay and Liam were talking about? Does he appear elsewhere in the ep? (I don't know that I can sit through it again)
So didn't this show used to be about some characters from before TOS and not at all about any characters from TNG? I mean this would have been a really interesting interseason episode, but wasn't a good way to say goodbye to the show we all knew and barely tolerated.
Not that I especially liked Demons/Terra Prime as a finale either but at least there were some exciting things happening.
For the sake of the discussion a few pages back here is an image of the Carl Sagan Memorial Station thingy:
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
I liked seeing that shot.
Posted by Veers (Member # 661) on :
Again, isn't that a little small for something so important? Is the Memorial Station even visible over those ridges?
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Who says it's that important? It's probably the twenty-second-century equivalent of one of those roadside plaques that say "On this spot in 1792, George Washington stopped his horse and went off to crap in the woods."
Posted by Balaam Xumucane (Member # 419) on :
I mean not to discount the importance of landing a rover on Mars or anything, but Mars-3 and Viking had already been there, and I imagine the first human footprints on Mars would be more significant. Perhaps a BIG obelisk.
While it would not have been unexpected, I was kind of looking forward to the final Enterpirse episodes tying up the temporal cold-war arc and simultaneously explaining why we've never heard of Johnathan Archer (et al) until this show. Like some big show reset-button where Archer sacrifices his place in history to save Earth and the proto-federation from the evil clutches of Future-Guy and the Suliban. Maybe with some Klingon tie-in hinting at their future collaboration. Meeting a young Commander Pike. Something. Anything other than a "holodeck" episode. Yawn.
Posted by Austin Powers (Member # 250) on :
I really enjoyed Jolene Blalock's and Dominic Keating's remarks about the final episode and Berman/Braga during the panels at FedCon 14 this month in Bonn. (Especially Dominic Keating's rendition of his own version of the theme song - very "special" and dedicated to "Bermaga"... )
Posted by The Ginger Beacon (Member # 1585) on :
The audio wasn't working when I checked, but the words can be found here... Posted by Austin Powers (Member # 250) on :
That's the one!
Nothing beats hearing the Ent stars bashing TPTB!
(Well, unless you count legally jumping the queue waiting for Leonard Nimoy autographs and thus saving 3 hours waiting... )
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
I own that t-shirt! Spooky.
Posted by The Ginger Beacon (Member # 1585) on :
So when did he nick it from you?
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
quote:Originally posted by The Ginger Beacon:
I don't know if there is any 'real' length. I mean, the only time we saw it was in Siskos office in DS9. What was that, 16 inches?
Has Avery Brook's been boasting again?
I've just finished watching it. The final episode that is. I've had it on my computer for over a month... I didn't know when I'd watch it.
I don't or can't really comment at the moment. I just wanted to come and read other's thoughts.
I'll just say about the E-D etc. Looked nice - the first view, the asteroid field etc. Still looked VERY CGI though.
Posted by Austin Powers (Member # 250) on :
Ok, now that I have finally managed to download and watch the episode (it won't be around here for at least half a year), I can say that for an Ent episode it might be quite disappointing. As a TNG fan OTOH I can honestly say I thoroughly enjoyed seeing the good old D again. But Andrew is right, it looked very CGI - well, it fucking WAS CGI so what the heck. At least we got a chance to see it (and some of the sets) again...
And for the Ent cast I can only cite Scotty from Relics: Here's to ya, lads!
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
It made a decent TNG episode, but a right crappy ENT episode. Not to mention that it was the series finale.
Now I'm all mad again...
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
I don't think it would have been a very good TNG episode, really.
"Hey mental health professional who knows me intimately, I'm having a serious ethical crisis here, what should I do? Oh, go play video games for an hour? Sweet."
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Would have been interesting if they dropped about Troi and Worf getting it on at that time.
Anyway - I'm sorry but Riker and Troi didn't really pass off for themselves from 12 years before - although now that I've realised it's 12 years - that's not too bad. Frakes' has gotten fatter, balder, more bug-eyed and his skin looks sorta shiny. Shatner-esque shiny.
Sirtis' eye's look odd... even since the last film - I think she's had an eye job - or probably just botox... at one point she looked nearly cross-eyed.
Anyway this maybe just the effect of the makeup trying to make them look younger - cause she looked alright in Nemesis and those Voyager episodes.
I like her at her own age - she looked good in "Watergate" - that episode of Stargate she did.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Let me rephrase: the idea of Riker exploring a past era of Starfleet to gain some insight on something might have made an interesting TNG episode. Trying to cram it in with "The Pegasus" didn't work. And trying to cram it in with the Enterprise finale sucked.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Supposedly the commentary track(s?) on the Enterprise DVDs released so far have been fairly frank, as such things go, so I wonder what they might have to say about the finale, should it get such a treatment.
I get the feeling, thinking about it in retrospect, that they probably had the idea of a TNG tie-in somewhere earlier in the season, as part of their "all references, all the time" strategy, and once the cancellation notice came down, it was more or less manhandled into the series finale.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Berman and Braga shouldn't have been let near the Finale fullstop. Also if they DID want to pick the series up somewhere down the line they could always chalk things like Trip's death down to incorrect records or Holodeck embellishments.
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
quote:Let me rephrase: the idea of Riker exploring a past era of Starfleet to gain some insight on something might have made an interesting TNG episode. Trying to cram it in with "The Pegasus" didn't work. And trying to cram it in with the Enterprise finale sucked.
And having the duo play themselves from 12 years ago sucked even harder.
quote:Berman and Braga shouldn't have been let near the Finale fullstop. Also if they DID want to pick the series up somewhere down the line they could always chalk things like Trip's death down to incorrect records or Holodeck embellishments.
Which is the only redeeming quality of the episode, since none of what was shown could possibly have been in the official Starfleet records, except for Archer's speech (which wasn't in the episode anyway, so who cares?)
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
Redeeming quality? It simply means that the Enterprise characters were nothing more than semi-sentient holographic images. Which means that whatever nice scene they had were actually complete bullshit, and never really happened.
And having an overweight, badly acting Trekkie in a skintight TNG uniform ruining every single scene didn't help either.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
We can't have a go at Jason for that, though.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
quote:Originally posted by Harry: And having an overweight, badly acting Trekkie in a skintight TNG uniform ruining every single scene didn't help either.
And the shiney face, you didn't mention the shiney face - what is with that? Shatner has one of those too! Too much alcohol? Too much sun? Too much makeup? Too many croissants? Posted by Balaam Xumucane (Member # 419) on :
quote:Rear-Admiral Michael T. Colorge intoned: Too much chocolate...
Posted by Vice-Admiral Michael T. Colorge (Member # 144) on :
Deanna really gave it to him then... see what happens to chocolate addicts when they forget how to puke it out.
I didn't get demoted by the way Balaam...
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Heheheh Rear-Admiral.
Deanna was the choco-holic - not Riker.
Posted by Vice-Admiral Michael T. Colorge (Member # 144) on :
She may have been feeding him chocolate during their "Counseling Sessions" over the years. Those calories do add up.
(In real life I blame Genie Francis' cooking for why he plumped up like a Thanksgiving Turkey... then again so did she)
Posted by dbutler1986 (Member # 1689) on :
Here's what I think: *vomits on the carpet*
I mean, REALLY. This is ENTERPRISE, not TNG; why make the episode revolve around two characters from another series? It's the FINALE, even. I feel like ENT was violated. And I thought ENT mostly sucked up to season 3 where it got a littttle better with the Xindi arc, and much better in S4 when Coto was brought on. I think, if renewed for another season and Coto given full responsibility for the show, it could've turned out pretty good. But in any case, even forgetting about Riker and Toy - Troi, sorry - the plot was like tissue paper. Wet tissue paper. With holes in it. And what the hell? Why lead up to Archer's speech so much, actually kill Trip for it, and then not even see it? I was so looking forward to the founding of the UFP throughout the entire show - I always assumed they'd do it at some point - and then it was entirely ruined. We saw the whole thing from a terrible, far-away camera angle into a badly CGI'd huge audience chamber FULL of people, and only for a second or two! Blahhhh.
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