Topic: Ships jumping to and dropping from warp (minor $)
TerraZ
Ex-Member
posted
This is an observation I made after I saw VOY "Equinox II". When Equinox and Voyager drop from warp at the end of the episode, we see a small and blurred shape instead of each ship. That shape slows down rapidly and then we finally see the ship normally. Now perhaps that's just a side-effect of relativity. However, at the end of DS9 "In Inferno's Light" (I think), we see the Defiant dropping out of warp to catch the Runabout and we see the usual "warp flash" just before the Defiant appears with a "trail" of light behind him.
As for going to warp, we always see a flash when it's jumping into high warp. When they jump into low warp (TNG "Where no one as gone before" and ST:Generations when escaping from Armagosa) we don't see any unless I've missed a particular episode.
Any proofs to disprove my theory or explaination on why that may be (I'm talking to you Bernd)?
------------------ -Doctor: We'll defend ourselves! They won't get what they're after! -Aliens: Huh? -Doctor: I mean, YOU won't get what you're after! ECH to Hierarchy vessel in VOY "Tinker, Tenor, Doctor Spy"
-Where were you when the brains were handed out? *Obscure reference. Try to guess were it's from*
[This message has been edited by TerraZ (edited October 27, 1999).]
posted
Ships going into and out of warp look different in TOS, the movies, the current era... I think we can say it's just a visual representation of the ship's entering warp, rather than what would actually be seen if it were real.
------------------ "I think you people have proven something to the world: that a half a million kids can get together and have three days of fun and music� and have nothing but fun and music." -Max Yasgur; Woodstock, NY; August, 1969
posted
It may also be that each series' effects crew wants to establish a unique visual style all their own, so they fiddle around with the effects, and if the producers like it, they use it.
It's sort of like (back in "the old days") whenever we got a new commander or first sergeant, they would inspect EVERYTHING and NOTHING would be good enough the first few times. Eventually we'd get the hang of what pushed their buttons and start passing the inspections. I guess it's the military equivalent of a new alpha male going into the woods and marking his territory so everyone else knows there's a new boss in town.
They don't seem to do that sort of thing anymore unless they really do want to institute reforms. They used to do it for no apparent reason except to ensure you knew "We did it that way when So-and-So was the boss" was NOT a good answer.
posted
When a jet moves near the speed of sound, the sound waves propagating in front of it begin to "bunch up", because they aren't moving significantly faster than the plane. As it reaches/passes mach 1, it breaks through these piled up sound waves and creates the sonic boom. As a starship moves into warp, it doesn't gradually speed up until it passes c. The warp field forms and they jump straight to superluminous velocity. And, for that matter, they aren't even really moving FTL, as far as the universe around them is concerned. Therefore, it is not a valid analogy.
BTW, here's another example of how they change visual effects. In "Descent" the inside of a transwarp conduit looked completely different than in "Dark Frontier"...
------------------ "I think you people have proven something to the world: that a half a million kids can get together and have three days of fun and music� and have nothing but fun and music." -Max Yasgur; Woodstock, NY; August, 1969
posted
The gradual speeding up that you say does not happen did happen for some reason with Cochrane's Phoenix. Unlike other warp-capable ships, after warp is engaged Phoenix gradually increases in speed from orbital velocity to 20,000 kps to "nearing light speed (which is about 300,000 kps) then "whooshes" to light speed in the usual way. As far as I can recall, this is the only example of a ship requiring a running start to reach warp speed. Can we attribute this difference from established practice to the primitiveness of the technology, or did Riker screw up again?
By the way, would this sub-light-speed momentum be conserved when they drop out of warp, i.e., would Phoenix come out of warp travelling just under light speed? Or would it just stop? This would also apply to other ships.
------------------ When you're in the Sol system, come visit the Starfleet Museum
posted
Baloo: I guess I wasn't really precise but my original question adressed Warp speed as seen in the TNG and above era which remains pretty much consistant with itself. My theory on this is that when the acceleration is sudden like in jump to high warp factor, there is a flash. When the acceleration isn't really fast like when jumping to warp 1 or close, there is no flash. This would account for the Defiant suddenly dropping out of warp to place itself immediately over the runabout and for the Equinox which whose warp field had simply collapsed leading to a "soft" drop to impulse. That theory is sort of contradicted by the Phoenix but since its warp drive was a lot more primitive, that's acceptable.
But you do bring an interesting point. How about warp drive from the Phoenix to TOS to the Movies to TNG and beyond? Since there is a difference on screen, then each of those warp drives must have a difference in its working principles. There's also VOY "Alice" in which we a see a very strange (but cool looking) view of stars at warp from Paris' point of view just after he went away with Alice.
But the way, in TOS I think I remember (not certain) about starships fighting at warp velocities. In TOS "The Ultimate Computer" (correct me if I'm wrong) the Enterprise was approching the other ships at Warp 4 or something and fired full phasers at the Excalibur (not sure). Phasers at warp this early in Trek history?
------------------ -Doctor: We'll defend ourselves! They won't get what they're after! -Aliens: Huh? -Doctor: I mean, YOU won't get what you're after! ECH to Hierarchy vessel in VOY "Tinker, Tenor, Doctor Spy"
-Where were you when the brains were handed out? *Obscure reference. Try to guess were it's from*
[This message has been edited by TerraZ (edited October 28, 1999).]
posted
I would hazard a guess that the phoenix would come out of warp carrying only the velocity it had due to conventional physical forces. Any additional velocity is probably attributable to the warp drives and would fall away as the warp field collapsed.
It's always been my pet theory that warp drives took some time to activate when they were invented (as seen in FC). I would imagine that when the technology was new, you carefully eased the ship into warp drive, possibly to reduce the wear-and-tear on the machinery involved. Perhaps the plasma flow had to be carefully balanced and the rate of acceleration was limited to how fast the computer could handle the rate of change.
It does not seem unreasonable that newer ships are not only faster, but can jump to warp almost immediately. Modern cars are much the same way whan compared to older ones. I remember my dad used to start the car on a cold morning and let it idle for up to 20 minutes (depending on how cold it was) before going out to drive it to work. This was to allow the oil to warm up and fully circulate throughout the engine, but was also to allow the carburetor, intake manifold, etc, to warm up as well, so the engine would run smoothly.
Perhaps something analagous happens with older starships (certainly the earliest ones)? You have to warm them up before you jump to warp or something might break?
--Baloo
------------------ "Some students try to hold the Rock up, instead of letting the Rock hold them up" --Anonymous divinity professor www.geocities.com/Area51/Shire/8641/
posted
Masao: About the Phoenix accelerating, it seems that it was the effect of the warp field. In modern starships, once the warp engine are engaged, the warp field is so strong that the ship is carried accross the "c threshold" almost immediately.
As for the Phoenix, its warp field is much less powerful, so it might have taken some time for it to reach its full strenght. So instead of being instantaneous, the jump was gradual, meaning it took more time to reach the critical point at which the ship crosses the "c threshold". Makes any sense?
------------------ -Doctor: We'll defend ourselves! They won't get what they're after! -Aliens: Huh? -Doctor: I mean, YOU won't get what you're after! ECH to Hierarchy vessel in VOY "Tinker, Tenor, Doctor Spy"
-Where were you when the brains were handed out? *Obscure reference. Try to guess were it's from*
The First One
A lovely little thinker, but a bugger when he's pissed
Member # 35
posted
Listen, Razzychops, you sure you're not double-clicking on the "submit" button? You seem to be especially prone to doube posts. . .
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
I would state that the reason the Phoniex needed to get a running start is due to low grade inertail dampeners. This would make sense for the long speed up. With out good dampeners you are chunky salsa.
------------------ If you need it I can build it. Just as long as there is a box of junk for me to use.
posted
Well, the conduit in "Dark Frontier" did look nicer and was probably easier to manipulate.
------------------ Elim Garak: "Oh, it's just Garak. Plain, simple Garak. Now, good day to you, Doctor. I'm so glad to have made such an... interesting new friend today." (DS9: "Past Prologue")
posted
I always assumed the lightflash was the ship breaking the speed of light, similar to the sound flash (sonic boom) you hear when the sound barrier is broken.
posted
First of all, If they are going faster than the speed of light.. How can you see the running lights on outside shots of the ship? And, how come you hear the 'Boom' of them entering warp if sound cant be heard in space? Just a little nitpicking of physics here..
------------------ -Gray -Chief Executive of GRAYsoft Productions -Network Administrator of aXiS IRC
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