Post A Reply
my profile
|
directory
login
|
search
|
faq
|
forum home
»
Flare Sci-Fi Forums
»
Star Trek
»
Starships & Technology
»
More Shuttle Questions...
» Post A Reply
Post A Reply
Login Name:
Password:
Message:
HTML is enabled.
UBB Code™ is enabled.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Dax: [QB] Where are the impulse engines on those TOS shuttles? Aren't the nacelles the "impulse pods" or whatever? [/QB][/QUOTE]
Instant Graemlins
Instant UBB Code™
What is UBB Code™?
Options
Disable Graemlins in this post.
<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="1" width="95%" align="center"> <tr bgcolor="#234c6f"><td> <table border="0" width="100%" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="1"> <tr bgcolor="#234c6f"> <td colspan="2" align="left"> <font size="3" color="#FFFFFF" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>T O P I C ��� R E V I E W</b> </font></td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Baloo</b> <br /><small>Member # 5</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(1999,10,4,20,44,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">November 04, 1999</span> <span class="timeformat-0">08:44 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> I just watched "The Menagerie" today, to compare the story in it to "The Cage", and I just realized...<P>The shuttle craft in which Kirk and Melendez give chase should have had no chance of catching up to the Enterprise, yet judging from the dialogue it doesn't sound like the Enterprise is zooming away quite as quickly as one might suppose. Given the speed advantage warp drive has over the sublight drives that the shuttles are assumed to have, they ought to have been long gone and out of sensor range before the shuttle could even leave orbit.<P>My question: Is it canon that TOS shuttles have no warp capability, or can we infer that they have limited warp ability? After all, Cochrane's Phoenix wasn't very big, and wasn't very fast, but even warp one or two would be enough to make a small shuttle quite useful. Besides, if they didn't have warp, then what are those nacelles for? They are as useful as a hood ornament would be on the Defiant.<P>--Baloo<P>------------------<BR>Welcome to the museum of really dangerous things.<BR>Feel free to pick up and handle any of the displays.<BR><A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shire/8641/" TARGET=_blank>www.geocities.com/Area51/Shire/8641/</A><P> <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Sol System</b> <br /><small>Member # 30</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(1999,10,4,21,32,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">November 04, 1999</span> <span class="timeformat-0">09:32 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> There isn't really any conclusive evidence one way or the other, as far as I know. Having the shuttles be warp capable would clear a few things up.<P>------------------<BR>"Stirs a large iron pot. Casting a spell on Vermont."<BR>--<BR>John Linnell<BR> <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Dax</b> <br /><small>Member # 191</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(1999,10,4,23,8,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">November 04, 1999</span> <span class="timeformat-0">11:08 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Where are the impulse engines on those TOS shuttles? Aren't the nacelles the "impulse pods" or whatever?<P>------------------<BR>"Forgive me if I don't share your euphoria!" (Weyoun to Dukat, Tears of the Prophets)<BR><A HREF="http://www.space.net.au/~mdax/index.htm" TARGET=_blank>Dax's Ships of STAR TREK</A> <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Baloo</b> <br /><small>Member # 5</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(1999,10,4,23,24,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">November 04, 1999</span> <span class="timeformat-0">11:24 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> According to what I've seen, they are arranged along the trailing edge of the shuttle body, right below the "roof" at the back of the fuselage.<P>Of course, in "The Galileo Seven", the "fuel" that was dumped and ignited as a flare created two plumes streaming back from the nacelle structures.<P>What is the power source used for shuttles (TOS only) anyhow? They certainly don't seem to be powered by matter/antimatter reactors. The one in "The Menagerie" was powered by some sort of "ion" drive, or so the dialogue leads me to believe.<P>--Baloo<P>------------------<BR>Welcome to the museum of really dangerous things.<BR>Feel free to pick up and handle any of the displays.<BR><A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shire/8641/" TARGET=_blank>www.geocities.com/Area51/Shire/8641/</A><P> <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>TSN</b> <br /><small>Member # 31</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(1999,10,5,0,13,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">November 05, 1999</span> <span class="timeformat-0">12:13 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Well, I always figured the shuttles had warp drive, considering how far they were travelling in one in "Metamorphosis"...<P>------------------<BR>"Agh! Save me from the wee turtles!"<BR>-Groundskeeper Willy, <I>The Simpsons</I> <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Timo</b> <br /><small>Member # 245</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(1999,10,5,2,55,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">November 05, 1999</span> <span class="timeformat-0">02:55 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> There's lots of dialogue on TOS and TNG shuttles that seems conflicting at first on the issue of warp capability, but can be explained away if one bothers.<P>The type 7 shuttle of early TNG clearly had what looked like warp nacelles, yet we never saw it at warp. In "Q Who?", Riker searches for a missing shuttle and a mention is made of covering the area a craft could cover at sublight speeds. But this may just have been a good place to start searching for a warp-capable ship, and Riker later expands the search area.<P>In "Samaritan Snare" and "Neutral Zone", the shuttle<BR>makes long transits into or out of planetary systems at sublight speeds. But then again, we know that ships have to go to sublight on such transits ("BoBW"), and thus using a shuttle might not be any slower than using the ship itself. And shuttles could still have warp.<P>In "Skin of evil", the type 7 shuttle was clearly in interstellar transit, so it HAD to have warp drive.<P>In TNG, type 6 is never seen in interstellar transit or at warp AFAIK - or at least all its sublight transit trips can be interpreted as "out of the system and onto the ship waiting just outside system limits". In Voyager, types 6, 8 and 9 all make interstellar trips, although I think only the latter is really seen at warp.<P>The TOS shuttle makes interstellar transit in "Metamorphosis", just as TNS says - and arguably also in "Menagerie", unless SB 11 was in the outskirts of the Talosian system! <P>Timo Saloniemi<BR> <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Timo</b> <br /><small>Member # 245</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(1999,10,5,3,6,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">November 05, 1999</span> <span class="timeformat-0">03:06 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Addendum, to ruminate on Dax's question:<P>We hear very little about shuttle power sources. We know shuttles can be beamed around, which might indicate lack of antimatter if not for the fact that antimatter has been shown being transported around as well! We also hear in "The Sound of Her Voice" that only a warp-core-less craft can make a planetfall on that temporal-twist planet, and then one of the shuttles lands on the planet. But this might simply mean that a) the shuttles have warp cores but they can be removed more easily than the one on the Defiant or b) the Defiant couldn't land on a planet anyway.<P>I think it would be plausible to assume that a fusion-powered warp core is available in all the shuttles that have big nacelles, and this makes them capable of warp. The tiny shuttlepods with small nacelles might not be capable of warp, and the nacelles could be there only for erecting a mass-reducing subspace field.<P>As for the "fuel" coming from the nacelles in "The Galileo Seven"... Wouldn't this be the traditional location of drive plasma vents in all Starfleet designs? And wouldn't it make sense for a shuttle to have only one power system, shared by impulse and warp drives? Thus, the fuel venting system would probably also be shared. "Ion engines" might refer to the impulse nozzles only (those are the lit areas at the stern of the main body), or then to the power system which might be some exotic non-fusion device that somehow uses ions. Or it might even be a trade name for the engines made by Ion Powerescu & Sons Engine Company!<P>Timo Saloniemi <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Baloo</b> <br /><small>Member # 5</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(1999,10,5,10,17,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">November 05, 1999</span> <span class="timeformat-0">10:17 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> All good comments. It is canon (and even mentioned in the encyclopedias) that in TNG and later there are some shuttlecraft with warp capability. My question refers specifically to TOS. Even though they do not (to my knowledge) ever mention whether TOS shuttles are warp capable, I am asking if we can infer that perhaps they are, judging by the dialogue of the episodes.<P>Do we have any convincing evidence that the shuttles have been used to travel further than a few light-days' distance? That would be good evidence that the shuttles may have been warp capable in TOS.<P>--Baloo<P>------------------<BR>Welcome to the museum of really dangerous things.<BR>Feel free to pick up and handle any of the displays.<BR><A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shire/8641/" TARGET=_blank>www.geocities.com/Area51/Shire/8641/</A><P> <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Masao</b> <br /><small>Member # 232</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(1999,10,5,21,47,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">November 05, 1999</span> <span class="timeformat-0">09:47 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> This is sort of evading the question, but one thing to keep in mind is that shuttles were not designed to be modes of transportation. Instead, I think they were designed to be plot devices that served to isolate certain crew members so they could get in trouble away from the ship and rest of the crew. <P>Having a sublight shuttle only makes sense in situations in which the transporters can't be used, such as going down to a planet's surface during an ion storm. Let's say that a crew member wanted to visit a planet along the original Enterprise's route. He jumps in a shuttle and travels at sublight speed for several days. Wouldn't it be much faster if the Enterprise just made a short detour at warp speed to drop him off at the desired planet?<P>Regarding the objects that look like warp nacelles on shuttles: What else could they be? If you they were impulse engines why would you make them look exactly like minature warp nacelles? No other type of ship has outboard impulse engines. <P>------------------<BR>When you're in the Sol system, come visit the <A HREF="http://www.uni-siegen.de/~ihe/bs/startrek/sfmuseum/" TARGET=_blank> Starfleet Museum </A><P><BR> <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Baloo</b> <br /><small>Member # 5</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(1999,10,5,22,40,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">November 05, 1999</span> <span class="timeformat-0">10:40 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Masao: Thanks!<P>It makes sense to me that the "warp nacelles" on the TOS shuttlecraft are actually warp nacelles. Otherwise (as I said to someone else) they are as useful as hubcaps.<P>--Baloo<P>------------------<BR>"My ambition is to be a good ancestor."<BR>-- Herbert Zipper<BR><A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shire/8641/" TARGET=_blank>www.geocities.com/Area51/Shire/8641/</A><P> <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Justin_Timberland</b> <br /><small>Member # 236</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(1999,10,6,22,24,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">November 06, 1999</span> <span class="timeformat-0">10:24 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Wait a second, the Type 10 shuttle that the Defiant used in "The Sound of Her Voice" was said not to have warp capability. Then the DS9 Tech Manual says that the shuttle has warp capability. Wait another second, the tech manual also implies that there are more Type 10 shuttles out there in the fleet. Maybe the Defiant had the version that has no warp drive. There could be two versions of each type of shuttle, the warp capable ones and the non-warp capable ones. <P>------------------<BR>"Women feel the emotions of happiness, hatred, anger, helplessness, and desire. <P>Men on the other hand feel the guy version, Horny."<P>-Michael_T<P> <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Baloo</b> <br /><small>Member # 5</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(1999,10,6,23,27,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">November 06, 1999</span> <span class="timeformat-0">11:27 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Available with or without the warp-drive option?<P>Sounds like my <a href="http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shire/8641/Type_XX_and_XXa_Shuttle.htm" target=_blank>Type XX and XXa shuttle</A>. Since warp nacelles require (presumably) scarce resources, the type XXa has dummy nacelles that serve not only as the landing skids, but provide additional cargo storage (like baggage pods on fighter planes).<P>--Baloo<P>------------------<BR>Jesus saves.<BR>Moses invests.<BR>--Bumper Sticker<BR><A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shire/8641/" TARGET=_blank>www.geocities.com/Area51/Shire/8641/</A><P><BR> <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Timo</b> <br /><small>Member # 245</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(1999,10,8,3,34,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">November 08, 1999</span> <span class="timeformat-0">03:34 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Then again, the Defiant has to have at least one warp-capable shuttlegcraft type. In "The Search", Sisko and Bashir believe they have been picked up by the Lexington somewhere near the wormhole mouth, while Kira and Odo fly to the Omarion nebula. At least one of the craft has to be warp capable to achieve this, since<BR>Omarion is not next to the wormhole.<P>Kira flies the standard type 18 shuttlepod, with gullwing doors. Sisko and Bashir fly a shuttle with an aft hatch, a feature available for the type 10 shuttle but impossible for type 18. So I'd bet Sisko was (dreaming of) flying a warp-capable type 10 in that ep.<P>Note that it's never said in "The Sound of Her Voice"<BR>that the shuttlecraft is incapable of warp. It is only said that it does not have a warp core. This may mean<P>a) it isn't warp-capable<BR>b) it is warp-capable but uses fusion or something<BR>c) it is warp-capable and uses a M/AM warp core,<BR> but O'Brien yanked the core out of the shuttle<BR> for the duration of this mission.<P>Personally, I favor the latter.<P>Timo Saloniemi <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Bernd</b> <br /><small>Member # 6</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(1999,10,11,8,56,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">November 11, 1999</span> <span class="timeformat-0">08:56 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Given the screen evidence, I tend to believe that all shuttles are actually warp-capable. Maybe even the Type-15 shuttlepod. I'm not quite sure about it because it has been a while, but I remember that Geordi is abducted by the Romulans while traveling in a Type 15(?) in "The Mind's Eye". It is stated somewhere in the dialogue that it is an interstellar flight.<P>The Type 18 is definitely warp capable, although officially otherwise stated. Ironically, the first and only episode where the pod was prominently featured ("The Search"), establishes the warp capability.<P>Maybe this issue is reconsidered in the future. The Fact Files, for instance, state that the Galaxy class saucer is capable of low warp speeds, probably to explain why Geordi issued the idiotical order to return the saucer to the next starbase in "Arsenal of Freedom". After all, a warp field does not necessarily require visible warp nacelles, but can be generated with the impulse drive coils.<P>My problem with the shuttlecraft, if they have warp drive, is rather the maximum warp speed. Warp 2 for a standard Type-6 or Type-7 shuttle and maybe a bit more for a runabout is as good as sublight, and I don't think the crew want to spend years on a shuttle travel to the neighbor planet.<P>------------------<BR>"When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way."<BR>A somewhat different Janeway in VOY: "Living Witness"<BR><A HREF="http://www.uni-siegen.de/~ihe/bs/startrek/" TARGET=_blank>Ex Astris Scientia</A> <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Timo</b> <br /><small>Member # 245</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(1999,10,12,3,23,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">November 12, 1999</span> <span class="timeformat-0">03:23 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> The trip in "Mind's Eye" was definitely interstellar, at least for the return leg. But one could say that the inward leg was one of those cases where the Enterprise drops out of warp just outside a solar system, but does not bother to make the impulse trip into the system and sends a shuttle instead. Romulans *would* have the balls to kidnap somebody from inside a Fed-held star system.<P>And on the outward leg, Geordi hitchhiked on a Teldarian cruiser, which was said to have speeded up his journey - perhaps the original plan had been to hitchhike on a slower yet still warp-capable ship, or wait for transport aboard a scheduled Starfleet transport? IIRC, Geordi said the change of plans had shaved several days, not decades, off his journey, which means the original plan had to involve warp speeds as well.<P>As for "Arsenal of Freedom", I don't think Geordi's orders to have been idiotic. Surely the saucer would survive a journey lasting several years, subjective time (possibly decades if not centuries, "objective time"). The alternative to this was to stay and be slaughtered by a force that had already destroyed one starship and threatened to do so to the E-D as well.<P>The saucer could have later rendezvoused with starships for evacuation, and then be towed the rest of the way or scuttled. In any case, it had to be moved out of the Minosian system, so why not in the direction that would make later evacuation easiest?<P>I think it *would* be a good idea to give warp drive to every thingamabob that has obvious warp nacelles. Perhaps just warp one for the shuttlepods, though. Or "warp 0.8" a la ST:TMP, to differentiate from 0.8 c achieved through impulse drive (the former is Trek magic, the latter is a feat that should not be possible for something that is essentially a conventional rocket boosted by small amounts of magic tech).<P>Since I'm an advocate of upscaling the type 7 by some 25-30% from TNG TM figures, I'd also like to upgrade its speed to warp three or something. The rest of the shuttles ought to stay close to warp two, although I'm sure Voyager has already made its shuttles go warp 9.98 or something (outside "Threshold", that is!).<P>Whew! Perhaps I shouldn't carry on four threads in a single post? <IMG SRC="http://flare.solareclipse.net/smile.gif"> <P>Timo Saloniemi <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Bernd</b> <br /><small>Member # 6</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(1999,10,12,6,0,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">November 12, 1999</span> <span class="timeformat-0">06:00 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Timo, you're right in that the order itself was not idiotic, he issued it to get the saucer away, and did not actually want them to reach the starbase. My interpretation may have been too literal.<P>The Voyager shuttles all seem to be significantly faster than TNG shuttles. If the shuttles were much slower than the ship, this would cause big problems especially on Voyager's mission. You couldn't drop a shuttle somewhere in a planetary system, then move the ship on with reasonable speed and let the shuttle catch up the distance after the mission is completed. Voyager would have to stand still each time a shuttle is on the way. Actually, it would be much better for the credibility of the plots (Voyager, not TNG) if the shuttles were much faster than the ship.<P>------------------<BR>"When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way."<BR>A somewhat different Janeway in VOY: "Living Witness"<BR><A HREF="http://www.uni-siegen.de/~ihe/bs/startrek/" TARGET=_blank>Ex Astris Scientia</A> <br /> </font> </td></tr> </table></td></tr></table> <br /> <br />
© 1999-2024 Charles Capps
Powered by UBB.classic™ 6.7.3
