Okay, about the rations, all I have been able to determine is that they taste awful.
Can anyone else tell me what we know about them, based on what we've seen on the shows?
--Baloo
PS: Rations are, TOO technology!
------------------ The hyperhamster is alive and well.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Some of them are made of curry. Seriously! It was in "Silicon Avatar"!
------------------ "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." -Albert Einstein
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
I think we've seen two main types of rations in use by Starfleet, so far. I'll have to look the names up, but there is the traditional, created beforehand kind, and then there is the low-power replicated kind.
------------------ "I'll be the sky above the Ganges I'll be the vast and stormy sea. I'll be the lights that guide you inward. I'll be the visions you will see." -- R.E.M.
Posted by Baloo (Member # 5) on :
Good! Keep the information coming!
I'm planning on doing something for SMR's Aero-Ground forces, along the lines of field kitchens, rations, etc., and need all the info I can get, however sketchy it may be.
--Baloo
------------------ The hyperhamster is alive and well.
[This message was edited by StationMaster on March 14, 1999.]
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Ok, a little more information.
The premade kind are kept in "ration packs." Each one apparently contains a full meal, and they're numbered. Number five, for instance, contains stewed tomatoes and dehydrated eggs.
------------------ "I'll be the sky above the Ganges I'll be the vast and stormy sea. I'll be the lights that guide you inward. I'll be the visions you will see." -- R.E.M.
Posted by Curry Monster (Member # 12) on :
Err, yum?
------------------ I drink therefore I am.
-Descartes
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
There are also combat rations, which come in shiny silver wrappers, as I recall. They provide enough nutrients for three days. Presumably there are species specific ones.
------------------ "I'll be the sky above the Ganges I'll be the vast and stormy sea. I'll be the lights that guide you inward. I'll be the visions you will see." -- R.E.M.
Posted by Warped1701 (Member # 40) on :
Apparently, the Starfleet substitute for the MRE.
------------------ Risk is our business! That's what this starship is all about....that's why we're aboard her!"
Posted by Siegfried (Member # 29) on :
I bet the rations don't taste all that bad. After all, it is easy to adapt to "Surprise Meat" in the public schools and colleges. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if I liked it.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Well, the ration packs are apparently not that bad. But the combat rations don't appear to have many supporters. Aside from Chief O'Brien, who happens to like them a lot.
------------------ "I'll be the sky above the Ganges I'll be the vast and stormy sea. I'll be the lights that guide you inward. I'll be the visions you will see." -- R.E.M.
Posted by Antagonist (Member # 76) on :
I would think that survival rations would be similar to today's military rations. Prepackaged small packs of: Toilet paper, chewing gum, main meal, toothpick, snack, vitamin, water packet, and eating utensils. However I don't think things would be quite that simple. There are probably two types of rations, combat, and survival. Survival being much larger and complete, and less of a selection. Combat rations would be small packs easy enough to fit in your palm, and have a large selection. I do agree that they probably are spiecies-specific.
And to save on space, combat rations probably use a concentrate of water, maybe dueterium water?
And by the way, emergency survival ration SUCK. They always taste like cardboard. Personally when I'm on long backpacking trip I take some dehydrated food (mostly potatos and beans) and a gun. Can anybody say "grouse?" ------------------ "Truth is cheap, information costs."
[This message was edited by Antagonist on March 18, 1999.]
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
<Curly Howard> Look at the grouse! </Curly Howard>
------------------ "Look into any eyes you find by you; you can see clear to another day..." -The Grateful Dead, "Box of Rain"
Posted by Baloo (Member # 5) on :
Okay, it seems that what we know has been tapped. Now, how about what we suspect?
Meals, Ready to Eat (MREs) are designed to provide one meal (per package) for one person. They are used in the absence of group messing facilities (a chow hall or field kitchen).
In the Trek timeline (TNG, DS9, & Voy.), I am certain there would be scenarios where it would be impractical to replicate meals on an as-required basis (surface combat, very small vessels with limited space available, etc.)
What types of rations would be necessary:
When operating in a hostile environment (space or not-class-M planet), and wearing protective gear?
When aboard a small vessel (such as a fighter or shuttlepod) for an extended-length mission?
When operating as part of surface combat forces away from messing facilities?
Any other scenario you can think of?
Brainstorm, folks! Absolutely no criticism of anyone else's ideas for the next 10 posts (If we get that far). Stupid/absurd ideas are welcomed, as they may provide a springboard for practical ideas we haven't thought about yet.
Go to it, guys!
------------------ Carpe Canem!
Posted by Warped1701 (Member # 40) on :
It would be quite difficult for someone to eat if they were in an environmental suit. It might be possible for them to have ingested some kind of "super food pill" that gave them enough nutrients to survive for a period of let's say, about 5 days. I don't think we can expect for people to be in zero-g for longer than that.
As for a normal kind of combat ration, I'd have to say something like an MRE. Species specific, but packed with more nutrients than is standard in an MRE. Instead of an MRE's 3000 calories, these rations would contain at least 6000 calories. This means the soilders would get the proper amount of nutrients, but not be spending too much time eating. As for what kind of food, I'm not sure. Easy to rehydrate, and good to eat. As for a designation like MRE, your guess is a good as mine.
Hope this is the kind of post you were looking for, Baloo.
------------------ Risk is our business! That's what this starship is all about....that's why we're aboard her!"
Posted by Baloo (Member # 5) on :
[This reply does not count against the 10-post no-criticism limit. Thanks.]
Warped 1701: Very good. All speculation is welcome.
NOTICE
If anyone has posted this after W-1701, I can't see it because someone upstream of my ISP is caching for short (1-2 hour) periods of time. We've been experiencing technical difficulties.
ICQ and email do not seem to be affected by this current malady. Please feel free to respond via these avenues, but don't do that in lieu of responding to this thread. Share ideas. It's fun!
We now return you to your regularly scheduled thread, already in progress.
------------------ Carpe Canem!
Posted by Baloo (Member # 5) on :
The "food pill" idea's been advanced before (Good idea, BTW).
What about replicated food? How big is a replicator? How much energy does it take to create a small (~0.5 kg) amount of food? Can you lug one of those things around?
Field Kitchens: Would they make an effort to cook "fresh" food or would it be more efficient to replicate everyone's order? Remember that a hot meal isn't just nutrition, it's a morale-booster.
------------------ CAUTION: The Mass of This Product Contains the Energy Equivalent of 85 Million Tons of TNT per Net Ounce of Weight.
Posted by Warped1701 (Member # 40) on :
In the end, I think it would probably be easier for them to have a field kitchen. Unless they have heavy vehicles able to carry around at least 15-20 replicator units. Due to their size and complexity, it's quite possible for them to have an extremely high weight. >500 kilograms. If that is the case, it wouldn't be easy to lug around 15-20 of them, while fighting on the move. It would be in Starfleet's best interest to have a nicely equipped field kitchen. Lightweight tent covering, small pots, pans, utensils, and heating devices. To me, it just makes more sense.
------------------ Risk is our business! That's what this starship is all about....that's why we're aboard her!"
Posted by Cargile (Member # 45) on :
How about something like a nutrient patch, like the nicotine patches of today. Sort of like a compact saline sollusion but far better. I think it may be hard to put a whole days worth of "food" into a patch, but maybe a nutrient "t-shirt" is possible. Also it may be feasible to saturate fat cells in the body with nutrients prior to deployment for certain combat teams and situations.
These are alternate ideas for situations where ration packs and field kitckens are impropable to use.
------------------ The best thing about being a solipsist is that I'm the only one here. --Paul Cargile
Posted by Ryan McReynolds (Member # 28) on :
The chief problem with replicators is power. If you're lugging around enough raw foodstock (protein, carbos, etc) ready to be manipulated, then it might be workable, because simple rearrangement isn't too big of a deal if you've got . If you are trying to replicate the food out of whatever raw matter is available (air, dirt, etc), then you're talking about an enourmous amount of power since actual quantum transmutation has to be done. Carrying ready-made food or rations would be more feasable in that case.
------------------ -=Ryan McReynolds=-
Posted by Sidewinder (Member # 50) on :
That brings up a question I have had. How do food replicators work? Does they create something from pure energy or do they have a whole bunch of stuff that is mixed together to make a meal?
------------------ There's a lady who knows, all that glitters is gold...and she's buying a stairway to heaven. -Led Zeppelin, "Stairway to Heaven"
Posted by Warped1701 (Member # 40) on :
According to the TNGTM, there is some kind of raw storage medium that is actually used to create the physical portion of the food. It is dematerialized into energy, sent to the replicator terminal, and rematerialized in the form of whatever foodstuff is requested. Energy is used, but is not the consituent component of the food.
------------------ "We choose to do this and more. Not because it is easy, but because it is hard." -- John F. Kennedy
Posted by Ryan McReynolds (Member # 28) on :
For that matter, it isn't even transformed into energy. As with transporters, they just break things apart. Replicators work at molecular resolution for the most part, and they are only capable of working with whole molecules. The food is stored as big (presumably compressed) vats of proteins, carbohydrates, and other food-making stuff, which is beamed out and rearranged molecule by molecule. Due to the limitations of molecular resolution, it is simply impossible for standard replicators to accurately make anything composed of materials not already stored. I'm sure some replicators work at quantum resolution and are capable of scanning and rearranging atoms at the quark level, but its likely very energy intensive; hence, there is still mining and so forth in the replicator age. Replication is only good if a.) you're on a starship and you just want common objects, or b.) you're on a planet and have near infinite fusion, solar, and geothermal power available.
------------------ -=Ryan McReynolds=-
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
I always thought that molecular resolution meant that it simply made every molecule of each substance exactly alike. Whereas quantum resolution would account for the slight variances between them.
------------------ "I fart in your general direction!" -John Cleese, Monty Python and the Holy Grail
Posted by Ryan McReynolds (Member # 28) on :
'Fraid not. Molecular resolution refers specifically to the scanners that scan the material. They can only scan molecule by molecule; hence, the devices can only manipulate whole molecules. It would be like me trying to move amoebas (atoms) with the naked eye (mol. res. scanners)... it won't work unless you've got a microscope (q. res. scanners). I'd guess it is pretty easy to convert between the two, but it's just incredibly power intensive to transmute elements.
------------------ -=Ryan McReynolds=-
Posted by Michael Dracon (Member # 4) on :
What does TKL stand for?? (Yesterday's Enterprise, according to Tasha: standard rations)
------------------ "Those that can, do. Those that can't, laugh at those who can do."
