I wonder if photon torpedoes are usually launched at warp speed. It has been shown a few times that they were used like mines, but the normal procedure seems to be aim and fire, because they are no self-guided missiles. Nevertheless they can do course corrections, since the torpedo launchers usually don't aim directly at the target. If the target is close (in phaser range), the time to impact at warp will be at most some fractions of a second (unlike what is mostly shown on screen). A reason for the high speed seems to be that an enemy torpedo can't be shot down with the phasers. This is obviously quite different in "The Undiscovered Country" when the torpedo is equipped with a plasma sensor. Why didn't the Klingons just fire at the slow torpedo?
------------------ "No, thanks. I've had enough. One more cup and I'll jump to warp." (Janeway, asked if she would like some coffee in "Once upon a Time") www.uni-siegen.de/~ihe/bs/startrek/
Posted by Warped1701 (Member # 40) on :
It could be that for the Klingons, "time slowed down" as they saw their death approaching. However the most likely cause was "dramatic effect".
------------------ "Angels and Ministers of Grace, defend us" -Hamlet, Act I, Scene IV
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Well, no-one ever accused Chang of being totally w/ it. I mean, he did spin around in the captain's chair quoting Shakespeare... :-)
------------------ "I ran into Charlie Fogg. He blacked my eye, and he kicked my dog. My dog turned to me, and he said, 'Let's head back to Tennessee, Jed.'" -The Grateful Dead, "Tennessee Jed"
[This message was edited by TSN on June 09, 1999.]
Posted by Bernd (Member # 6) on :
...and even the original Klingon version.
I am looking for a reasonable explanation, because this dramatic effect would have been far too dramatic. The torpedo could have actually been so slow. The reason why the BoP couldn't be hit was that the cloaked ship continuously changed position, and the torpedo obviously searched for the target, running in curves.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Torpedoes can only be launced at warp speeds if the ship launching them is traveling at warp speeds.
------------------ "Gone savage for teenagers with automatic weapons and boundless love." -- Soul Coughing
Posted by Bernd (Member # 6) on :
I have to check the TNGTM again. I thought the torpedoes were accelerated with a "linear warp engine" in the launcher.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
The casing contains a warp field sustainer, which allows a torpedo to remain at warp if fired there.
------------------ "Gone savage for teenagers with automatic weapons and boundless love." -- Soul Coughing
Posted by Bernd (Member # 6) on :
The warp sustainer engine is necessary for what its name already says, because unlike Newtonian speed warp speed cannot be maintained without a continuous warp field being present. The question is how the torpedo's warp speed is achieved in the first place.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
No, no, the sustainer "grabs" a portion of the ship's warp field, allowing the torpedo to stay at whatever warp factor the launching ship was traveling at. It doesn't have enough power to kick the torpedo into warp speed on its own.
------------------ "Gone savage for teenagers with automatic weapons and boundless love." -- Soul Coughing
Posted by Bernd (Member # 6) on :
What I had in mind was that the torpedo was accelerated by the launcher or just the ship's warp speed itself. The warp sustainer would be a kind of weak warp engine that keeps the torpedo at a speed just above the peak transitional threshold where the required power is considerably smaller than the power to get it there. I doubt that the warp field of the ship itself can be used for this purpose, considering its steep decay outside the ship. This would only work for objects close to the ship, for instance another ship that is towed.
I think the official explanation was something like that, but I could be wrong and I'll check the TNGTM again.
Posted by Black Knight (Member # 134) on :
If the torpedo is fired at sublight speeds, it can accelerate 75% above the launching platforms current speed though it cannot break the lightspeed barrier on its own. If fired at warp, it will also accellerate 75% faster (or something like that) to escape the launcher so as not to run into the launcher.
------------------ "If I get lost, I'll just follow the ship infront of us."-Ensign Nog
Posted by Bernd (Member # 6) on :
Sol, Black Knight: You're right in that the torpedo has to be launched at warp speed to achieve warp speed. TNGTM: "...to continue at warp if launched during warp flight by the starship...If launched at sublight, the sustainer will not cross the threshold into warp..."
The launcher tube is described as follows: "It is strung with sequential field induction coils and launch assist gas generators to provide initial power to the sustainer engine and propel the casing away from the starship."
The rest of the description is a bit nebulous like everything about warp propulsion. Maybe I've mistaken you, Sol, when you wrote "grabs a portion of the ship's warp field". It is possible that the sustainer engine can "attract" part of the warp field, but I doubt it takes much energy from it. Without either the field or additional energy the torpedo would drop out of warp almost immediately, and its movement energy would be "converted" to a low Newtonian speed. The warp field being not self-sustaining, the required power would have to be stored somewhere else in the torpedo (unlikely), or new power would have to be generated, and I think that's what the *sustainer* engine is mainly about: grabbing and holding the field.
Posted by Shipbuilder (Member # 69) on :
Don't forget there are similar devices used by the Saucer section during separation at warp. It doesn't generate its own field, it attracts part of the Battle Section's and allows it to decay as the Saucer falls out of warp.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Hm... If it can go 75% beyond the launcher's speed, what happens if you fire while stationary? 75% of 0 is still 0... :-)
------------------ "I ran into Charlie Fogg. He blacked my eye, and he kicked my dog. My dog turned to me, and he said, 'Let's head back to Tennessee, Jed.'" -The Grateful Dead, "Tennessee Jed"
Posted by Black Knight (Member # 134) on :
TSN: All the DS9TM says about it is: "In launches from DS9, the initial velocity remains at high sublight and will never reach warp 1. This does not imply that the torpedo is impractical for statoin defense; it has been shown that even at low impulse, the standard photon torpedo is effective against close-in threat vessels."
------------------ "If I get lost, I'll just follow the ship infront of us."-Ensign Nog
Posted by Black Knight (Member # 134) on :
TNGTM says: "The multimode sustainer engine is not a true warp engine due to its small physical size, one-twelfth the minimum matter/antimatter (M/A) reaction chamber size. Rather, it is a minature M/A fuel cell, which powers the sustainer coils to grab and hold a hand-off field from the launcher tube, to continue at warp if lauched during warp flight by the starship...[blablabla]...[the engine] cannot add more than a slight amount of power to the original hand-off field. The maximum cruising velocity will follow the formula Vmax=V1+0.75V1/c, where v1 is the launch velocity. Other flight modes are triggered according to initial launch conditions. If launched druing low-impluse flight, the coils will drive the torpedo up to a 75% highter sublight velocity. If launched at high sublight, the sustainer will not cross the threshold into warp, but will continue to drive the torpedo at high relativistic velocities. If requred, the maximum effective range can be extended, but with a loss of detonation yield, as the sustainder engine draws reactants from the M/A tanks."
TSN: The torpedo launcher uses compressed gas to propell the torpedo to its initial velocity which would give the 75% something above 0 to accellerate from.
------------------ "If I get lost, I'll just follow the ship infront of us."-Ensign Nog
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Hm... That's the longest response I've ever gotten as a result of a sarcastic comment... *L*
------------------ *needs a new sig, but hasn't run across anything good*
This is a temporary non-sig. Please ignore it. That is all.
Posted by Cargile (Member # 45) on :
Also, things moving at high relavistic speeds and warp flight are affected by time distortions. In reality, all ships and all torpedoes are operating in their own seperate reference frame of time from one another, and where a ship or torpedo appears to be may not neccesarily be that torpedo's or ship's actual place. Firing a phaser through a ghost image does no good.
------------------ "Minsk."
Cmdr Worf
Posted by Bernd (Member # 6) on :
Cargile: I wonder whether FTL sensors are able to track objects moving at high sublight with time dilation. It would be a bit ironic if the sensors detect ships moving at warp, but not a slow torpedo. Nevertheless, it could be possible.