Flare Sci-Fi Forums: Sovereign Class Speculation

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Posted by Deep6 on :

My question is how long you guys think it takes to construct a Sovereign class ship. According to the TNGTM, it took approx. 10-15 years to build Galaxies....I disagre with this, it being far to long. For Starfleet to have the number of ships seen on DS9 during the war, they would have to have been built much quicker than this. While longer, the Sovereign's overall internal volume is less than that of a Galaxy, and thus probably takes less time to build. Opinions?

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"So where are the nuggets on a chicken anyway?"

Posted by Jim Phelps (Member # 102) on :

First of all, a Galaxy was also being designed from scratch at the same time the first ships were being constructed, so perhaps mass production may run faster. Then again, the DS9 tech manual states that the Dominion War ships don't have complete internals, are patched together from components of other ships etc, etc.

In addition, what you'll see is all these experimental classes started years and years ago, such as the Akira, Steamrunner, Defiant, Prometheus with their relatively low registry numbers. It's probably cheaper nowdays to ignore the fact that these are not quite perfect, something which Starfleet doesn't allow itself in peacetime I guess.

Boris

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Posted by Deep6 on :

What makes you say that the Akira and Steamrunner classes are experimental? And as for the Defiant class, it has since (according to the DS9TM anyway)gone into production as a frontline starship.

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"So where are the nuggets on a chicken anyway?"

Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :

I reckon the Sovereign Class is not the next in line after the Galaxy class, that the Sovereign has been in pre-production for sometime, it also is not similar to the Galaxy, I feel it has more in Common with the Excelsior Class, so maybe it is a branch off of the design evolution from back with the Excelsior, taking on different approaches than the designers of the Ambassador Class and subsequently the Galaxy class designers took.

Constitution -> Constitution Refit -> Excelsior -> Ambassador -> Galaxy -> (Nova - or what ever - much further down the line)

Constitution -> Constitution Refit -> Excelsior -> (maybe another as yet unseen ship) -> Sovereign

I don't think Sovereign was supposed to be the Galaxy's predecessor since the demise of the E-D was premature.

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"I was not elected to watch my people suffer and die, while you discuss this invasion in a committee" Queen Amidala - Star Wars: Episode 1, The Phantom Menace

Posted by Trinculo on :

Analyzing the structural identifiers (nacelles, primary hull, secondary hull), I believe the Sovereign and the Nova belong to the same family and the first ships of both classes were commissioned between 2364 and 2367. I believe a Sovereign can be constructed in about 5 years. I take my figure from the time it takes a Navy contractor to build a US Carrier using module construction. So construction of the USS Enterprise could have begun as early as 2367 (2372-2367 is 5 years).

Posted by monkeyboy on :

May we not forget because of the battle of 359 with so many ship losses, ships were urgently needed to replace losses plus more capable ships to fight another Borg attack.

-Building was accelerated due to losses in 359,
-federation meet the Dominion, fear of invasion more empahisis again on quicker ship building as war threatens

-Enterprise D goes down, Soverigen class ship nearing completion, quickly renamed Enterprise and becomes new flagship of Federation.

On and with the quicker build schedules, 5 years don't sound too out of whack
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I did'nt do it.

[This message was edited by monkeyboy on June 17, 1999.]

Posted by Bernd (Member # 6) on :

My estimation for a high-performance ship:

Prototype development: 2 years computer modeling, 3 years physical construction, 1 year tests. Maybe the development time could be halved during the Dominion War.

Mass production: 1/2 year construction of a fully functional ship from stock components, 1/2 year interior fitting. Could be reduced by a few months during the war.

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"No, thanks. I've had enough. One more cup and I'll jump to warp." (Janeway, asked if she would like some coffee in "Once upon a Time")
www.uni-siegen.de/~ihe/bs/startrek/

Posted by Deep6 on :

AndrewR, We werent saying the Sovereign was the predecessor to the Galaxy. We were just using its (supposed) construction time as a basis for comparison.

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"So where are the nuggets on a chicken anyway?"

Posted by Shipbuilder (Member # 69) on :

Bernd, I think you're estimates may be alittle low. I know this is probably not the best analogy, but a modern Nimitz class ship (USS Harry Truman) has exactly 10 years from contract signing to delivery date, with her construction period looking like this:
Contract Award 06/30/88
Keel laying 11/29/93
Christening 09/07/96
Fast Cruise 05/31/98
Builder�s Trials 06/11/98 Acceptance Trials 06/22/98-06/24/98
Delivery 06/30/98
(from NNS shipbuilding)
Even though the construction methods would be much more advanced in the 24th century, it still requires a lot of work to put something that large together. Keep in mind, this is a standard class member, no developmental work was done for this Nimitz, basically the developmental work alone would take 5-10 years extra. I think the GCS taking 20 years was pretty much dead on, seeing as how it was a pretty revolutionary design.

Posted by Black Knight (Member # 134) on :

I agree w/ Shipbuilder :-)

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"If I get lost, I'll just follow the ship infront of us."-Ensign Nog

Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :

Shipbuilder: You say it takes ten years, but, from your timeline, it looks like they spend five years doing jack ****.

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"If you hear only one song this year, there's something terribly wrong with you."
-They Might Be Giants, "Critic Intro"

Posted by Curry Monster (Member # 12) on :

I think there is a large distinction that needs to be made between the prototype and the successive ships. IMHO:

* They build the prototype from scratch, by hand. Thus it takes 10+ Years with the integration of technology and before the coffee high scientists get working.

* All vessels in the production line are built of pre-fabricated parts, mostly replicated in quick production facilities such as those in the Sol System. (No reference to the illustrious Moderator).

Now, I'd guess that they can put together a cruiser of larger vessel in 3 years approx during preacetime. In wartime they can cut that to maybe 1.5-2 years.

I'm using the evidence of world war 2, when the Germans built some 700 submarines, and the US and Brits had thousands upon thousands of ships. It's impossible to replicate an entire vessel according to canon, however there is no reason large industrial replicators can't create new large components to specification which can be quickly put together. IMHO the part that slows it down is the extraction of raw materials to power the units and the humanoids who are a bit more clumsy than a computer when welding (or whatever) the hull together.

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"I have only one purpose, the destruction of Hitler.....If Hitler invaded hell I would make at least a favourbale reference to the devil in the House of Commons".

-Winston Churchill

Posted by Shipbuilder (Member # 69) on :

Its not my timeline, its Newport News' timeline. Anyway that first 5 years are actually spent (as Daryus concludes) collecting raw materials and ordering/receiving components from subcontractors. NNS has recently stopped stockpiling steel and supplies before ship construction due to corrosion problems on-site and have moved to a computer controlled ordering process which "supposedly" guarantees a continuous flow of raw materials into the construction yard.

Starfleet would probably have a large amount of transports that do about the same thing, bring in lots of raw materials which are replicated into specific structures. Structures are connected into modules and are then moved into place and connected to form the starship.

Posted by Cargile (Member # 45) on :

Plus there are a political and financial ostancles that must be hurdled. This can account for some of the time "not doing jack."

I beleive the Galaxy class was also a technology pathfinder. A lot of new systems and ways of doing things where created and implemented. This takes time. I think it would be accurant to say both the Sovereign and the Galaxy where produced during the same time, maybe five years after for the Sov.
At the moment the most advanced aircraft in USAF inventory is based on technology 10-15 years ago, which up-grades as they are available. The F-22, operational in 2002 (I think) has been in the works (conceptual work) since the late 80's. Given advance technology that Starfleet has it its disposal, I'd knock a large chunk of time off in comparisons with todays ships and aircraft.
I'd give 8-10 years for R and D prototypes, 3-5 for production models.

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"There are always bigger tits."

Qui-Gon Jinn in Mos Espa's sleaziest adult nightclub.

Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :

Shipbuilder: I didn't mean "your timeline" as in you made it. I meant "your timeline" as in you posted it... :-)

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"If you hear only one song this year, there's something terribly wrong with you."
-They Might Be Giants, "Critic Intro"

Posted by Voyager on :

This is how I think the ship building rates go,

Experimental
The hull design and laying of the inner structure about 1-2 1/2 years. Integration of possible new or experimental technology and the fixing of any design flaws, about 1 year. Then the fitting of the interior would take about 1/2 year. Last, trial runs should be conducted for about 1 year. Total of about 3-5 years.

Classes in Normal Production
The laying and construction of the hull, about 1/2-1 year. Adding interior systems, technology, and design flaws, about another 1/2-1 year. Trial runs for 1/2 year. This takes about 1-2 1/2 years depending on the size and design elements of the vessel.

Defiant class ships are the main exception to this because they can be built probably at the rate of one ship taking only 3-6 months to complete.

Galaxy's are also an exception just because of the sheer massive size of the ship, 42 decks can take a long time to complete.

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Well, no one is perfect so don't try to be perfect, just be yourself!

Posted by Fabrux (Member # 71) on :

If it takes 3-6 months to make a Defiant-class, they probably spit out a Danube a day!

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Star Trek: Dark Horizon
Creator, Owner, Only Writer

Posted by Deep6 on :

i would imagine it only takes about 2 weeks at most to construct Danube class runabouts. Were talking about serious mass production here. All the pieces are more than likely prefabricated and only have to be assembled.

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"So where are the nuggets on a chicken anyway?"

Posted by Voyager on :

The only reason I gave a time frame like that is because, Defiant class ships are much smaller than most others but, I never said what I wrote was fact. It wouldn't surprise me if it takes longer to build a Defiant class starship.

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Well, no one is perfect so don't try to be perfect, just be yourself!

Posted by Federation Shipmaster (Member # 15) on :

Has to be more than one Danube a day. Boeing used to make 31 737's a month.

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Posted by Deep6 on :

Notice all the plane crashes lately?

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"The brocolli must die!"

-Stewie, The Family Guy

Posted by Adam Bauer on :

Galaxies should be much faster to produce now that the prototype phase is over. Has anyone else noticed that the secondary hull seems to be produced in at least two modules (four counting nacelles) and welded together? I believe this could be further evidence that modularized hull components are replicated somewhere. Remember that a lot of the phaser and computer systems are standard now and are probably also mass produced. I believe the five year estimate is probably a good one.

If you think about it wouldn't interior finishing take up a lot of time on a ship that size? I'm guessing it would be necessary for workmen to come in and do things like lay carpet, install replications, computer consoles, lights, etc manually... Without all of this development time could probably be reduced a fair amount - leaving things like this out would make a lot of sense in a war-time situation.

In construction the more experimental a ship's components are the longer it should take to build. If a ship reuses standardized components and hull designs like the Neb. and Miranda it should really speed up development a lot both in the prototyping phase and when testing (proven systems will probably not be tested as much as the experimental). The Sovereign probably took at least 10 years to construct then. Depending on just how many new systems (like the warp core) were used in it.

Posted by Federation Shipmaster (Member # 15) on :

Lately? Plane crashes occur all the time, but they don't make our front pages unless it's some worldwide airline.

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Posted by Black Knight (Member # 134) on :

FYI
The F-22 Reaches IOC (Initial Operations Capability) in 2004. :-)

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"If I get lost, I'll just follow the ship infront of us."-Ensign Nog