Flare Sci-Fi Forums: Kazon ships

This is topic Kazon ships in forum Starships & Technology at Flare Sci-Fi Forums.

To visit this topic, use this URL:
https://flare.solareclipse.net/ultimatebb.php/topic/6/375.html

Posted by Bernd (Member # 6) on :

I'm currently compiling a page about Kazon ships (and their sizes) and I have checked several of the season 1 and 2 episodes, but I don't have all of them on tape.

While the big mothership is easy to identify, there is the multi-deck Kazon raider (Culluh's ship) and the tiny shuttle-sized fighter for which the same studio model was used . A very similar model (without the "wings") has been used for the Kazon shuttle. So far I have spotted the raider only in "Maneuvers", while the other occurences of the model ("Caretaker", "Alliances", "Basics 1,2") were all meant to portray the little raider.

- What about Initiations? The young Kazon's ship Chakotay destroys at the beginning is a fighter, I suppose. I remember the shuttle which Chakotay and the Kazon Teen use to escape is the wingless shuttle model, and that this is its only appearance.

- At least two Kazon ships (the one on which the transporter was tested and Culluh's ship) could be seen in "State of Flux". I think they were both of the raider type.

Anyone know it better?

Screencaps?

------------------
"The best diplomat I know is a fully activated phaser bank!" (Scotty, TOS: "A Taste of Armageddon")
Ex Astris Scientia

Posted by Elim Garak (Member # 14) on :

The ones in "State of Flux" were the same model, yes...

Wasn't there a shuttle in "Basics, Part I"?

------------------
Elim Garak: "Oh, it's just Garak. Plain, simple Garak. Now, good day to you, Doctor. I'm so glad to have made such an... interesting new friend today." (DS9: "Past Prologue")

Posted by Bernd (Member # 6) on :

In "Basics, Part I" there was a ship Chakotay called a shuttle, but it was the wing thing.

------------------
"The best diplomat I know is a fully activated phaser bank!" (Scotty, TOS: "A Taste of Armageddon")
Ex Astris Scientia

Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :

There's also the Kazon "torpedo". I don't have any episode information on it, though.

------------------
"We took a small flight, in the middle of the night, from one tiny place to another."
--
Ben Folds Five

Posted by Bernd (Member # 6) on :

The Kazon torpedo's only appearance was in "Maneuvers". I wonder why they built a completely new model for this one, while the regular shuttle was the same as the raider.

Posted by Dax (Member # 191) on :

Why stress about the Kazon ships? We're not likely to see them again.

I agree, it is strange how the raider and shuttle was the same model, yet the torpedo was created for one episode (why???).

------------------
"Forgive me if I don't share your euphoria!"

Weyoun to Dukat in 'Tears of the Prophets'

Posted by Elim Garak (Member # 14) on :

Actually, it is possible we'll see them again. It's Star Trek and "the sky's the limit."

------------------
Elim Garak: "Oh, it's just Garak. Plain, simple Garak. Now, good day to you, Doctor. I'm so glad to have made such an... interesting new friend today." (DS9: "Past Prologue")

Posted by Dax (Member # 191) on :

It's not impossible but it is unlikely.

Anyway, as far as I know, there are four types of Kazon ships - the large "blimp" carrier, the raider, the small raider/shuttle, and the torpedo.

------------------
"Forgive me if I don't share your euphoria!" (Weyoun to Dukat, DS9 'Tears of the Prophets')

Posted by Jim Phelps (Member # 102) on :

We're likely to see the Kazon ships in the upcoming Voyager TM, and I'm currently in the process of collecting everything we know about every ship seen in the series (and posting it at startrek.expertforum.ricksternbach, whether Rick uses it or not).

As far as the Kazon ships are concerned, so far I only know about the 1900m one from the Encyclopedia and the ~16m fighter which conveniently passed over Voyager's saucer deflector for a sec. Any additional info on any of these, crew, weapons, etc?

Boris

------------------
"Wrong again. Although we want to be scientifically accurate, we've found that selection of [Photon Energy Plasma Scientifically Inaccurate as a major Star Trek format error] usually indicates a preoccupation with science and gadgetry over people and story."

---a Writers' Test from the Original Series Writer's Guide

Posted by Elim Garak (Member # 14) on :

Well, their sensors (the ones on the shuttle from "initiations", anyway) are horrible! Chakotay was able to flies around the shuttle without so much as any notice from Kar.

------------------
Elim Garak: "Oh, it's just Garak. Plain, simple Garak. Now, good day to you, Doctor. I'm so glad to have made such an... interesting new friend today." (DS9: "Past Prologue")

Posted by Dax (Member # 191) on :

Boris: The 1900m ship is the "blimp" that I mentioned, and the 16m raider must be the small type (that was in 'Basics' I think). In one episode we see Tom use a small raider that comes from a large(r) raider (they are the same physical model). I seriously hope that Sternbach takes note at what you have to say. The DS9 Manual was a huge disappointment. I don't want the Voyager Manual to turn out the same way.

The Kazon seemed to have limited technology and would have loved to get their hands onto Voyager (and actually keep it).

------------------
"Forgive me if I don't share your euphoria!" (Weyoun to Dukat, DS9 'Tears of the Prophets')

Posted by Bernd (Member # 6) on :

I have already accepted that there are two sizes of winged ships, Culluh's big raider (or whatever it was called) with about 9 decks in the main section, and the tiny fighter/shuttle/patrol ship with less than 20m, probably closer to 10m.

The remaining problem is if this shuttle: http://www.users.csbsju.edu/~rsorense/modelcitizen/trekships/kazon/bare%20kazon.jpg
was actually in "Initiations" as I think.
Roger Sorensen's page, however, creates the impression that it's only a preliminary stage before the wings and the other bizarre hull extension were added: http://www.users.csbsju.edu/~rsorense/modelcitizen/trekships/kazon/kazon.jpg

If I compare the two versions, I see that the bridge is missing on the "before" image, and a few other details are different. Moreover there is something that could be identified as a big cockpit window.

Any suggestions/opinions?

Posted by Jim Phelps (Member # 102) on :

Well, this is sorta how I understand it after a *bit* of research (not too much, though...). "Caretaker" featured the elephant-nosed 16m fighter and the 1900m Encyclopedia mothership. The fighter was later filled with detail to become the big raider, which can also be seen in the Fact Files schematic at your website. Is this about right?

Boris

---a Writers' Test from the Original Series Writer's Guide

Posted by Bernd (Member # 6) on :

That's one part of the story. The small spacecraft in "Caretaker" did already have all the wings and hull extensions of what should become the larger raider. Only the multi-deck lighting was missing or not visible.

I don't know if there was an intended original size at all, but given the look of the model which was obviously never changed (except for the one strange appearance in "Initiations") I would say the model with its two-deck bridge was definitely supposed to portray the big ship. So why was it changed to a small one as soon as in the pilot? One possible explanation is that they needed small ships for dramaturgic reasons to make the appearance of the fat one even more threatening.

There are several appearances of the small winged ship, while the big one appeared only in two Kazon episodes. The VFX people then became incredibly sloppy and lighted the tiny ships swirling around Voyager in "Basics, Part I", as if they had many decks.

------------------
"The best diplomat I know is a fully activated phaser bank!" (Scotty, TOS: "A Taste of Armageddon")
Ex Astris Scientia

Posted by Jim Phelps (Member # 102) on :

I'm still a bit unclear, sorry

What I *do* observe is that the Bare Kazon, the Cardboard Kazon and the Fact Files Kazon are all the same model, albeit with different detailing. Which one is the fighter, which one the raider, and which one the shuttle?

Boris (with no Kazon eps on tape

---a Writers' Test from the Original Series Writer's Guide

Posted by Bernd (Member # 6) on :

I think the bare model is the shuttle, because what I saw in "Initiations" was called a shuttle and used like a shuttle.

The cardboard model (I'm not sure if they replaced it with some other material or just coated it) is both the (big) raider and the (small) fighter throughout all episodes. The "raider" and "fighter" names are arbitrary, but better than the various names the ships are given in the dialogues.