According to the new game 'Star Trek: Armada' the scout ship used in Insurrection is a Venture Class Scout. Look here for the reference (one of the last pictures): http://www4.activision.com/games/armada
[This message has been edited by Altair (edited September 04, 1999).]
Posted by Elim Garak (Member # 14) on :
Nope, can't be canon... Well, I doubt most people will think it is, anyway.
I wonder how they came up with the name or if it came from someone "in the know"...
------------------ Elim Garak: "Oh, it's just Garak. Plain, simple Garak. Now, good day to you, Doctor. I'm so glad to have made such an... interesting new friend today." (DS9: "Past Prologue")
Posted by Fabrux (Member # 71) on :
You should know by know, Elim, that I don't fit in to the "most people" category
------------------ All hands, brace for impact! WHAM!!
[This message has been edited by Fabrux (edited September 04, 1999).]
Posted by The359 (Member # 37) on :
They more then likely got it from Paramount...but I hope that isn't true, since calling it Venture class would make the Galaxy Class USS Venture deceased. Another Galaxy bites the dust
------------------ "I am Sci-Fi" -The 359
Posted by Dax (Member # 191) on :
Hmmm, when was the last time we saw the Galaxy-class USS Venture?
------------------ "Forgive me if I don't share your euphoria!" (Weyoun to Dukat, DS9 'Tears of the Prophets')
Posted by Aethelwer (Member # 36) on :
"Tears of the Prophets" (DS9).
------------------ Frank's Home Page, which you've never seen before and want to visit right now
Posted by Elim Garak (Member # 14) on :
But the games are hardly canon, especially even if it's just the website that says that's the class.
------------------ Elim Garak: "Oh, it's just Garak. Plain, simple Garak. Now, good day to you, Doctor. I'm so glad to have made such an... interesting new friend today." (DS9: "Past Prologue")
Posted by First of Two (Member # 16) on :
The Player's Handbook for the new RPG Identifies the scout as a Talon-Class ship.
Not that that's canon, either, just that it conflicts.
------------------ "We shall not yield to you, nor to any man." -- Freak, The Mighty.
Posted by Wes (Member # 212) on :
This information is from Paramount. So it IS cannon. We accepted thier statement on the USS Enterprise-E being 22 decks instead of 24 (as stated in First Contact). Who are we to shun this? Its like beliving the apple is blue, but when we are told its red we shun it, when minutes before we belive a orange to be green, but when told its orange, we then belive its orange. Anyone see my thinking?
Also, where is the rule stated that ships cannot share the same name simutaniously? According to the majorady of treknolagy fans, the ships are defined by registry first, then name.
Uh, first off, no it isn't canon. Just because the game has a Paramount logo and go ahead with it, doesn't make it canon. Second, the Enterprise-E has 24 decks, the mistake was that the tac officer said 26. Also, if you want a have a fight over canon, talk to The Shadow.
------------------ "Can you pull in the leviathan with a fishhook or tie down his tongue with a rope? Can you put a cord through his nose or pierce his jaw with a hook? Will he keep begging you for mercy? Will he speak to you with gentle words? Will he make an agreement with you for you to take him as your slave for life? Can you make a pet of him like a bird or put him on a leash for your girls? Will traders barter for him? Will they divide him up among the merchants? Can you fill his hide with harpoons or his head with fishing spears. If you lay a hand on him, you will remember the struggle and never do it again!" -Job 41:1 - Job 41:8
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 138) on :
Talk about bringing up old threads.
Anyway, I was reading an article that Star Trek: Armada is considered canon by Paramount. Including the Venture-class name of the scout ship. Only what's seen or said on episodes or movies is canon. I don't believe Paramount can make up what's canon or not on the spot.
Wes: No two ships can have the same name at the same time.
------------------ "This is where the adventure is. This is where heroes are made." - Dr. Bashir Federation Starship Datalink - Now with a pop-up on every page...damn you Tripod!
Posted by Wes (Member # 212) on :
My understanding of the interview was that Paramount gave the info to Activision. Ragaurdless of the "Logo", shouldnt we belive this? We belived them when they stated the Ent-E had 24 decks and not 26 (excuse my typo). Generally, what is "Canon" or not is stricky opinion, I've met people that actually take the books as canon. Star Trek is a frachise that has been bended alot and changed around enough for "canon" to be a variable term. Thanks for the input though. :O)
Well I've known people to consider the Jeri Taylor books as canon. Just because she co-created Voyager it doesn't make her novels canon. Now if they use stuff from Pathways or Mosiac fine, then what they used is now canon, not the entire novel. I feel the same with these games. If they used elements from a game in an episode or movie, then what they used is canon.
------------------ "This is where the adventure is. This is where heroes are made." - Dr. Bashir Federation Starship Datalink - Now with a pop-up on every page...damn you Tripod!
Posted by Wes (Member # 212) on :
Yes, its all confusing. Canon to one person is independant, there isn't a "universal" canon, its purely opinion based. I tend to belive TV shows, Movies, and Paramount statements (unless a TV Show or movie directly contradicts paramount).
I see calling something non-canon as basically an excuse not to argue about why one obscure book contradicts another obscure book. Not that I'm complaining. And the name Venture: in the videogame Wing Commander (no bloody 2, 3, or 4), there was a corvette of similar design called the Venture-class. A fan on staff, maybe?
------------------ Meddle not in the affairs of Dragons; for you are crunchy and good with ketchup.
Posted by Elim Garak (Member # 14) on :
Canon is the shows (not the animated one, though, although that's iffy) and the movies, nothing more. That's universal canon. Personally, people can accept individual things as their private official information, but it remains non-canon.
------------------ Elim Garak: "Oh, it's just Garak. Plain, simple Garak. Now, good day to you, Doctor. I'm so glad to have made such an... interesting new friend today." (DS9: "Past Prologue")
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Wouldn't the actual defintion of what's canon be whatever TPTB tell the writers is canon? I mean, that's the entire point of "canon": it's the things that cannot be contradicted by the show/movie writers (at least, not intentionally).
------------------ "I think you people have proven something to the world: that a half a million kids can get together and have three days of fun and music� and have nothing but fun and music." -Max Yasgur; Woodstock, NY; August, 1969
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
At any rate, no, the scout vessel is not Venture class according to canon. But feel free to refer to it as such if you'd like.
(Personally, as it seems to conflict with the USS Venture, I'm more then willing to discard it. If this information did come from some official source, such as cut dialouge from the script, or production notes, or something, you would think it would have made its way into the latest encyclopedia.)
------------------ "Like I told you, you are concentric in your form. When it's cold you've got yourself to keep you warm." -- John Linnell
Posted by Gaseous Anomaly (Member # 114) on :
I think the U.S.S Venture was seen in 'Way of the Warrior', so I think that this conflict blows the Armada reference out of the water.
The game looks cool, BTW.
------------------ "Fire, Fire!" said Mrs O'Dwyer. "Where, where?" said Mrs O'Hare. "Down in the town." said Mrs Brown. "Lord bless us and save us" said old Mrs Davis. "I never knew a herring was a fish."
Posted by Dax (Member # 191) on :
Indeed, the USS Venture was first seen in "WotW". As far as I know, the ship is still in service. So it's unlikely the scout is Venture-class.
Picard said the Ent-E has 24 decks in FC. Only Worf's replacement erred with the 26 comment(don't ask me why). Does that make both figures "canon"?
------------------ "Forgive me if I don't share your euphoria!" (Weyoun to Dukat, Tears of the Prophets) Dax's Ships of STAR TREK
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Not if we assume the security guy was an idiot... :-)
------------------ "I think you people have proven something to the world: that a half a million kids can get together and have three days of fun and music� and have nothing but fun and music." -Max Yasgur; Woodstock, NY; August, 1969
Posted by Elim Garak (Member # 14) on :
But do not TPTB only maintain the shows and movies are canon, anyway?
------------------ Elim Garak: "Oh, it's just Garak. Plain, simple Garak. Now, good day to you, Doctor. I'm so glad to have made such an... interesting new friend today." (DS9: "Past Prologue")
Posted by Kosh (Member # 167) on :
They maintain that the shows and movies are canon, and then ignore them as they see fit. But that is the offical line, Shows and Movies only, are canon.
------------------ "One Tequila, Two Tequila, Three Tequila, Floor". George Carlin
Posted by The359 (Member # 37) on :
minor $ . . . . . . The Venture was in "Tears of the Prophets" as well
------------------ "Can you pull in the leviathan with a fishhook or tie down his tongue with a rope? Can you put a cord through his nose or pierce his jaw with a hook? Will he keep begging you for mercy? Will he speak to you with gentle words? Will he make an agreement with you for you to take him as your slave for life? Can you make a pet of him like a bird or put him on a leash for your girls? Will traders barter for him? Will they divide him up among the merchants? Can you fill his hide with harpoons or his head with fishing spears. If you lay a hand on him, you will remember the struggle and never do it again!" -Job 41:1 - Job 41:8
Posted by bear (Member # 124) on :
Lets think about this for a second, is it really that unacceptable to consider a venture class scout? The scout really is just a new runabout that goes faster and looks cooler. Somebody mention before that only Sisko names his runabouts, so isn't it safe to assume that the class names of small scouts and runabouts really don't conflict with ship naming schemes.
Well, the DS9 runabouts were all Danube-class, so Starfleet does have designations for the classes, at least.
------------------ Elim Garak: "Oh, it's just Garak. Plain, simple Garak. Now, good day to you, Doctor. I'm so glad to have made such an... interesting new friend today." (DS9: "Past Prologue")
Posted by Wes (Member # 212) on :
Unfortunately I have failed to get my point across. There is no dictionary definition of canon. What�s "universally" canon is what you think of the series. Most of you are talking about it like its real life. In case you haven't noticed, it's not. The word canon itself just defines what you think is worthy of the trek name. In my opinion, all the games and books a person reads becomes integrated into the whole of the Star Trek Universe. The people that read a book and say "that never happened" are just weird, they don�t realize that nothing on Trek happened or is gonna happen. Canon or not. Its science fiction. By the common definition of canon, it doesn�t any fiction. Anyway, the more and more information and stoies based in the trek universe you experience, the better the entire franchise gets. Who even cares if it fits in, as long as you have fun with it, it doesn�t matter. :O)
Well, there has to be a universal definition of canon, or else nobody would agree on anything.
------------------ Frank's Home Page Noah Adams: "Well, some of them are really quite understandable. 'Montana is a leg.' is..." John Linnell: "...it's grammatical. It's not true, and it doesn't strictly make sense, and..."
Posted by Dax (Member # 191) on :
By now we should all be able to agree that there isn't a universal definition of canon Lately this subject has been thoroughly debated across multiple threads.
------------------ "Forgive me if I don't share your euphoria!" (Weyoun to Dukat, Tears of the Prophets) Dax's Ships of STAR TREK
Posted by Elim Garak (Member # 14) on :
The universal definition of canon is on-screen evidence, no matter what. You can pesonally choose to "ignore" or "add" certain aspects to what you consider canon, however.
------------------ Elim Garak: "Oh, it's just Garak. Plain, simple Garak. Now, good day to you, Doctor. I'm so glad to have made such an... interesting new friend today." (DS9: "Past Prologue")
Posted by Wes (Member # 212) on :
Who are you to say that? I see people follow the [what seems to be] the majority too often....
