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<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="1" width="95%" align="center"> <tr bgcolor="#234c6f"><td> <table border="0" width="100%" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="1"> <tr bgcolor="#234c6f"> <td colspan="2" align="left"> <font size="3" color="#FFFFFF" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>T O P I C ��� R E V I E W</b> </font></td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Individual 5748</b> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(1999,9,30,12,51,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">October 30, 1999</span> <span class="timeformat-0">12:51 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> How long would you say the life of an Oberth-class ship is? That is from launch to decommissioning, with standard refitting? Do you think one could last in service about 80 years (keep in mind that's a ball park figure - perhaps anywhere from 77 to 83 years)?<P>------------------<BR>"Questions, comments, bring them to me. Problems, take them to Kinis." <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Baloo</b> <br /><small>Member # 5</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(1999,9,30,14,5,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">October 30, 1999</span> <span class="timeformat-0">02:05 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> That would be hard to say. In the absence of "experts", I will say a few words on the topic.<P>Firstly, I think how long a ship lasts depends on two primary factors:<BR><OL><LI>How "sturdy" was the original design?<BR><LI>What kind of stresses did it experience during it's lifetime of use?</OL><P>Other factors might include how well (and how frequently) it was maintained, were any primary structural bits reinforced or replaced during any refits, and whether there were any accidents that might compromise strucural integrity.<P>A wooden boat can remain in like-new condition for hundreds of years if it is meticulously maintained. On the other hand, a brand-new tank might have to be scrapped if it runs over a big enough mine (or is driven off a cliff).<P>One last factor to keep in mind is that someone (A Starfleet museum or a collector, for example) might restore or rebuild an old model just to keep a working example on hand.<P>Now let's hear from the experts...<P>--Baloo<P>------------------<BR>If this is the future, then where are all the flying cars?<BR><A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shire/8641/" TARGET=_blank>www.geocities.com/Area51/Shire/8641/</A><P> <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>AndrewR</b> <br /><small>Member # 44</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(1999,9,30,23,35,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">October 30, 1999</span> <span class="timeformat-0">11:35 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> True, also you gotta remember that Oberths wouldn't be put into many 'high' risk situations - they're basically science ships...<P>------------------<BR>"Remove your hand or I will remove your arm!" - 7 of 9 <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Dax</b> <br /><small>Member # 191</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(1999,9,31,1,9,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">October 31, 1999</span> <span class="timeformat-0">01:09 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Side note- when was the last time we saw an Oberth-class ship? Maybe they've finally decommissioned these things <IMG SRC="http://flare.solareclipse.net/wink.gif"><P>------------------<BR>"Forgive me if I don't share your euphoria!" (Weyoun to Dukat, Tears of the Prophets)<BR><A HREF="http://www.space.net.au/~mdax/index.htm" TARGET=_blank>Dax's Ships of STAR TREK</A><BR> <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Aethelwer</b> <br /><small>Member # 36</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(1999,9,31,1,18,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">October 31, 1999</span> <span class="timeformat-0">01:18 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> "Interface" (TNG), probably.<P>------------------<BR><A HREF="http://frankg.dgne.com/" TARGET=_blank>Frank's Home Page</A><BR>"Okay, what's an MSD?" - Rick Sternbach<P> <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Justin_Timberland</b> <br /><small>Member # 236</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(1999,9,31,1,18,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">October 31, 1999</span> <span class="timeformat-0">01:18 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Was it "Interface" or DS9's premier "Emissary?" I didn's see any Oberths during "Interface" but I did see an Oberth blow up and another dock during "Emissary."<P>------------------<BR>"Women feel the emotions of happiness, hatred, anger, helplessness, and desire. <P>Men on the other hand feel the guy version, Horny."<P>-Michael_T<P> <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>The359</b> <br /><small>Member # 37</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(1999,9,31,11,30,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">October 31, 1999</span> <span class="timeformat-0">11:30 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> The USS Raman, which we saw the bridge and interior of, was Oberth class.<P>------------------<BR>"Can you pull in the leviathan with a fishhook or tie down his tongue with a rope? Can you put a cord through his nose or pierce his jaw with a hook? Will he keep begging you for mercy? Will he speak to you with gentle words? Will he make an agreement with you for you to take him as your slave for life? Can you make a pet of him like a bird or put him on a leash for your girls? Will traders barter for him? Will they divide him up among the merchants? Can you fill his hide with harpoons or his head with fishing spears. If you lay a hand on him, you will remember the struggle and never do it again!" -Job 41:1 - Job 41:8<BR> <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Baloo</b> <br /><small>Member # 5</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(1999,9,31,13,22,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">October 31, 1999</span> <span class="timeformat-0">01:22 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> It's possible we see few Oberths in DS9 simply because, as an older, slower, poorly-armed and defended design, Starfleet keeps them close to home. As long as the design is useful and it consumes fewer resources to refit the old ones and build more compared to the outlay for a completely new design, Starfleet would very likely keep them in service.<P>A non-military example of this sort of logic is seen in various locations around the U.S., where paddlewheel steamships are kept as floating resorts. Few of these are constructed from scratch, but many of them have been refurbished so many times there is hardly a screw left from the original vessel. As long as a design fulfills a useful function, it will be kept in service until there is either no need for it, or if a new design will perform the same function at a significant savings in resources.<P>I avoid the use of the term: "money" since some folks believe the Federation is a socialist paradise, without the need for it. It in all probability does not possess infinite resources, and will find it necessary to construct new vessels based on need and the availability of resources (labor, expertise, materials) to build it, even if the cost/benefit analysis never mentions "filthy lucre".<P>--Baloo<P>------------------<BR>If this is the future, then where are all the flying cars?<BR><A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shire/8641/" TARGET=_blank>www.geocities.com/Area51/Shire/8641/</A><P>[This message has been edited by Baloo (edited October 31, 1999).]<p>[This message has been edited by Baloo (edited October 31, 1999).] <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Sol System</b> <br /><small>Member # 30</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(1999,9,31,15,23,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">October 31, 1999</span> <span class="timeformat-0">03:23 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> I'm not sure why people seem to equate a lack of money to some sort of Leninist nightmare. Money is simply one means of keeping track of value. The Federation has different values, and therefore a different means of keeping track of them.<P>In regards to the Oberth, I side with Baloo.<P>------------------<BR>"Stirs a large iron pot. Casting a spell on Vermont."<BR>--<BR>John Linnell<BR> <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Wes</b> <br /><small>Member # 212</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(1999,9,31,16,31,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">October 31, 1999</span> <span class="timeformat-0">04:31 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> I don't think the Oberths are around anymore... there was the USS Vico, but otherwise what you see in the backrounds in DS9 battles is just stock imagry used to fill the starscape. Then again theres always the variants seen in the DS9TM.<P>------------------<BR><B>Wes Button<BR><A HREF="http://techfx.brunslo.com/uplinkweb/" TARGET=_blank>The United Federation Uplink</A><BR> <A HREF="mailto:Wes1701E@hotmail.com">Wes1701E@hotmail.com</A> </B><P><BR> <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Mikey T</b> <br /><small>Member # 144</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(1999,9,31,18,25,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">October 31, 1999</span> <span class="timeformat-0">06:25 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> The Oberth Class should be almost decommissioned, with and estimated 20 ships left in service in the fleet. I would think that they are finally being phased out by the more capable Nova Class and maybe a few modified Olympic Class starships. Can anyone say target practice?<P>------------------<BR>"All you people, can't you see, can't you see<BR>How your love's affecting our reality<BR>Everytime we're down<BR>You can make it right<BR>And that makes you larger than life"<P>-Backstreet Boys<P><BR> <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Vacuum robot lady from Spaceballs</b> <br /><small>Member # 239</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(1999,9,31,18,56,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">October 31, 1999</span> <span class="timeformat-0">06:56 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> I like the idea that if any <i>Oberth</i>'s are still around, the only resemblance to the original ship is the shape. The <i>Oberth</i> class's earliest Registry numbers are in the 6xx range, and if we use use the the chronological number theory, that makes them...well, pretty damn old. If any would be active, they'd almost certainly be refit to the extent that they could be another class. Just my two one-hundredths of a dollar.<P>------------------<BR><I>"I've never seen anything this beautiful in the entire galaxy. Alright, give me the bomb"</I> -Ultra Magnus, <I>Fight or Flee</I><BR> <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Dax</b> <br /><small>Member # 191</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(1999,9,31,22,20,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">October 31, 1999</span> <span class="timeformat-0">10:20 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Because of its rego, the USS Grissom in ST:III was probably already a ship that had experienced a major refit. The original Oberth-class would have looked quite different from how we've always seen it. Like the difference between the E-nil and the E-A. Of course, this is assuming chronological regos.<P>Has anyone ever TOSerised the Oberth design? <IMG SRC="http://flare.solareclipse.net/wink.gif"><P>------------------<BR>"Forgive me if I don't share your euphoria!" (Weyoun to Dukat, Tears of the Prophets)<BR><A HREF="http://www.space.net.au/~mdax/index.htm" TARGET=_blank>Dax's Ships of STAR TREK</A><BR> <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Sol System</b> <br /><small>Member # 30</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(1999,10,1,2,1,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">November 01, 1999</span> <span class="timeformat-0">02:01 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Even if you discount the idea that registries are perfectly chronological, you cannot discount the fact that they are <i>roughly</i> chronological. TOS registries were in the thousands, TNG registries were in the tens of thousands. Etc.<P>At any rate, I'd imagine there are probably a few other designs for dedicated science ships that we haven't seen. But between the ones that we have seen, I'd agree that the Oberth's time has passed, at least it's time as a Starfleet vessel. But considering the long life of the class, I'd imagine quite a few private institutions wouldn't mind getting their hands on some.<P>------------------<BR>"Stirs a large iron pot. Casting a spell on Vermont."<BR>--<BR>John Linnell<BR> <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Baloo</b> <br /><small>Member # 5</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(1999,10,1,2,41,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">November 01, 1999</span> <span class="timeformat-0">02:41 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> As far as I lknow, no-one has extrapolated backwards to create a TOS Oberth, but there is a TOS predecessor, created by Joseph Baker.<P>Have a look at the <a href="http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Nebula/9749/grissom.html" target=_blank>Grissom Class</A> science ship from <a href="http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Nebula/9749/hist.html" target=_blank>LCDR Jerran's History of Starflight</A>.<P>Interesting, although to me it looks like they could have mounted the warp nacelles further aft, and allowed the saucer to be a bit wider.<P>--Baloo<P>------------------<BR>If this is the future, then where are all the flying cars?<BR><A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shire/8641/" TARGET=_blank>www.geocities.com/Area51/Shire/8641/</A><P> <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Dax</b> <br /><small>Member # 191</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(1999,10,1,9,8,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">November 01, 1999</span> <span class="timeformat-0">09:08 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> That Grissom-class also reminds me of the USS Curry "kitbash".<P>------------------<BR>"Forgive me if I don't share your euphoria!" (Weyoun to Dukat, Tears of the Prophets)<BR><A HREF="http://www.space.net.au/~mdax/index.htm" TARGET=_blank>Dax's Ships of STAR TREK</A><BR> <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>The359</b> <br /><small>Member # 37</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(1999,10,1,16,46,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">November 01, 1999</span> <span class="timeformat-0">04:46 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Hey, wait one friggin second! My original design for the Mustang Class is on that site! I totally forgot about it being there! <IMG SRC="http://flare.solareclipse.net/smile.gif"><P>------------------<BR>"Can you pull in the leviathan with a fishhook or tie down his tongue with a rope? Can you put a cord through his nose or pierce his jaw with a hook? Will he keep begging you for mercy? Will he speak to you with gentle words? Will he make an agreement with you for you to take him as your slave for life? Can you make a pet of him like a bird or put him on a leash for your girls? Will traders barter for him? Will they divide him up among the merchants? Can you fill his hide with harpoons or his head with fishing spears. If you lay a hand on him, you will remember the struggle and never do it again!" -Job 41:1 - Job 41:8<BR> <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Baloo</b> <br /><small>Member # 5</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(1999,10,1,17,13,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">November 01, 1999</span> <span class="timeformat-0">05:13 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> I have two ship designs at that site: The <A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shire/8641/Borchardt.htm" target=_blank>Borchardt class patrol/escort</A> and the <a href="http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shire/8641/Ptolemy.htm" target=_blank>Ptolemy class exploration/guided missile frigate</A>. Both receive honorable mention in his write-up of the <A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Nebula/9749/daedalus.html" target=_blank>Daedalus class explorer</A>.<P>I... I feel so PROUD! <IMG SRC="http://flare.solareclipse.net/smile.gif"><P>--Baloo<P>------------------<BR>If this is the future, then where are all the flying cars?<BR><A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shire/8641/" TARGET=_blank>www.geocities.com/Area51/Shire/8641/</A><P><p>[This message has been edited by Baloo (edited November 01, 1999).] <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Bernd</b> <br /><small>Member # 6</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(1999,10,2,9,18,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">November 02, 1999</span> <span class="timeformat-0">09:18 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> While I hate the idea that any TOS era ship is a Constitution kitbash, I wouldn't deny the possibility that the Oberth was already around at the time. Nevertheless, I would prefer an Oberth that was introduced about the same time as the Excelsior, and for some reason we don't understand the registries of the ships were <1000.<P>------------------<BR>"When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way."<BR>A somewhat different Janeway in VOY: "Living Witness"<BR><A HREF="http://www.uni-siegen.de/~ihe/bs/startrek/" TARGET=_blank>Ex Astris Scientia</A> <br /> </font> </td></tr> </table></td></tr></table> <br /> <br />
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