Flare Sci-Fi Forums: Regarding the Sydney again.

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Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :

I've been thinking about the Sydney class and her sister, the nameless DS9 ship. It is my contention that the DS9 vessel is meant to be a different class, and not just the Sydney upside down.

This is a picture that our First One found of the nameless ship.

Notice the angle on the nacelles. As far as I can recall, those on the Jenolan were at right angles. These appear to be slanted, though that may just be due to the slope the ship itself is at.

Furthermore, I'm still laboring under the assumption that this ship is somewhat smaller than the Sydney. Is there anything to scale it against? Other than DS9?

Of course, as TSN mentioned to me, the real answer depends on the bridge module. If it was moved to the new "top", I'd have a real case. Anyone know of any pictures?

Too many smilies? Well, I've had several Tootsie Rolls tonight.

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"Stirs a large iron pot. Casting a spell on Vermont."
--
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Posted by The First One (Member # 35) on :

Actually, I reckon it has movable nacellle pylons. . . they lift up for warp, hence they were up when the Jenol*n crashed on the Dyson Sphere - they didn't have time to lower them. . .

OR The nacelles are meant to be down, but can be raised for landings. . .

OR the ship was upside down on the Sphere and it didn't matter because they had artificial gravity anyway!

Look, I'll come in again. . .

But haven't we only see one Sydney-class with its nacelles up, right?

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Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :

The only thing I can say about the Sydney class regarding it's scale is that it is several decks thick. Vid caps clearly show rows of windows. It is therefore probably 3 to 4 times the size of a Danube Class runabout.

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Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :

I believe there was also an MSD in "Relics".

Weren't the Jenolxn's pylons connected to the bottom of the ship, while this one's seem to be connected at the top? Isn't that the problem?

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Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :

Well, the thing I noticed about the nacelles was the angle. According to the fanmade schematic I'm looking at, the Sydney's nacelles start out right at the centerline.

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"Stirs a large iron pot. Casting a spell on Vermont."
--
John Linnell

Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :

It's impossible to see if somebody had the
presence of mind to move the bridge dome
to the "new topside" of the model, but one
can say for sure that the DS9 version of
the ship *is* structurally different from the
"Relics" version. Not because any of the plastic
parts were moved (I think none were), but
because the "Chrysalis" screencap clearly
shows an "impulse glow" from the rear.

Now, if this were an upside-down Sydney, the
light would be pouring out from the big
shuttlebay! The impulse engines of the Sydney
are difficult to locate, but they certainly
can't look anything like the glow on the DS9
ship's stern...

So at the very least, the DS9 ship has had new
and humungously big impulse engines installed.
That ought to count as being a "new class"...!

Timo Saloniemi

Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :

Welcome Timo! I recognise your fabulous contributions to rec.arts.startrek.tech. - I hope you'll hang around here a lot - to have your comments appreciated, and not just lost in the eddies of the usnet ether

Andrew

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[This message has been edited by AndrewR (edited November 02, 1999).]

Posted by Hobbes (Member # 138) on :

We have word wrap Timo so you don't need to hit return at the end of every line.

I agree it's the Sydney model that the production crew changed a bit and thought, "Hey, we do this and this to that and now we have a new ship."

Or. This is a replacement for the Sydney-class. Afterall it's an old design, maybe this ship is a refit.

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Posted by Gaseous Anomaly (Member # 114) on :

Could someone please, please, get a screencap of the sideview of the 'Chrysalis' ship? It's the closing shot of the ep.

I really think if people saw this, we'd have a better idea of where the new ship stands in relation to the Jenolen.
That's the spelling, BTW .

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Posted by Wes (Member # 212) on :

Is it me or do those nacelles look purplish? Like dominion material.... wierd.

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Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :

Perhaps those aren't impulse engines. Maybe the shuttlebay doors are open. It's already been pointed out that the light isn't red (even though impulse engines are only usually red).

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"Agh! Save me from the wee turtles!"
-Groundskeeper Willy, The Simpsons

Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :

Hi and thanks for the warm welcome!

Sorry about the line feeds - It's just a habit I pick from minding the 80 char limit while using a different terminal every day. And I guess I'll finally get a signature as well... (BTW, how do I get the emoticons? Apart from reading the instructions, which you cannot think I'd stoop to...)

As for the Sydney-lookalike, I think this is the case where it is most likely that Starfleet would build several ships of superficially similar shape yet varying size. When warships or explorers or other special mission ships get "scaled up", that's usually to accommodate a slightly different mission profile and thus results in a shape change as well. But the job of a bulk freighter always remains the same regardless of size. And while the Sydney clearly isn't intended for hauling bulk, I think the same argument could be made for a passenger-carrying "RO-RO" ship (the ratio of
passengers to cargo could vary from size to size, though).

So there could easily be, say, three sizes of Sydneys,
with one of them built "upside down" but still using the same warp field configuration and other engineering for reasons of economy and simplicity. The DS9 size would match the size and "market niche" of the various transports regularly seen docked to DS9 - Bajoran
triangular ships, the "Merchantman" as the Bok'Nor,
the Vulcan ship in "For the Cause", etc. etc. The
"Relics" size would match the large "Antares class"
(don't shoot, let's do it in another thread!) ships
of TNG. And a third, even smaller size could match
Kasidy's tiny freighter.

Timo Saloniemi

Posted by Gaseous Anomaly (Member # 114) on :

Timo: Emoticons? Transformers?!?

Looked at my 'Chrysalis' video again this morning, and I've reached the conclusion that the pic posted above is misleading.

In the episode, there is no light bring emitted from the base of the mystery ship. Whatever happened to the pic posted, it exaggerates the glow, which I believe is nothing more than lighting glare.

And I noted a few banks of side windows as it passed.

Posted by Bernd (Member # 6) on :

Timo: Where did you get the information about the Sydney shuttlebay? I only know that the original orbital shuttle had some kind of numbered cargo modules in the rear, I don't know any rear view of the Sydney.

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Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :

There's a fanmade schematic that I have access to...if I had access to a working scanner I could share it.

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"Stirs a large iron pot. Casting a spell on Vermont."
--
John Linnell

Posted by Dax (Member # 191) on :

Timo: By emoticons do you mean these things

? Try to edit this post and you'll see the light.

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Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :

Try this:
http://members.aol.com/IDICPage/GemKirk60.html

Note that the modifications do away with all the "small craft" features of the original shuttle design. Gone are the ventral "nacelles" (which were anachronistic for STVI but perfect for Generations), all the large portholes, and any traces of the doorway. Also note the teeny weeny control cabin above the shuttlebay!

It seems that the shuttlebay has a ramplike door that is open in this picture but might be moveable in the actual model. The small dark square thing below the shuttlebay might in turn be the impulse engine.

Dax: thanks a million for the tip It's nice to be here. Now if I just learned not to hit the line feed quite so often...

Timo Saloniemi

Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :

Hmm. After looking at those pictures, I'm not so sure about the warp nacelles being moved between the time of the Sydney and the DS9 ship.

I sure wish that guy would put up a contents page for his pictures, though. Lots of great rarities, but no way to find them other than random clicking!

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"Stirs a large iron pot. Casting a spell on Vermont."
--
John Linnell

Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :

that 'shuttle observation' windows - might be a rec dec or 'ten forward' type room - especially on a transport...

Its probably called 8-backward

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Posted by Bernd (Member # 6) on :

I have received the Fact Files issue on the Sydney this week, and I was very disappointed. The ship is again designated as a large shuttlecraft or something like that, and it is not pointed out that the warp nacelles are of the same type as the Constitution's. The schematic is butt ugly and has several flaws. Most blatantly all the details on the bottom of the ship are missing, and this looks awkward. The window arrangement is not correct, either. Honestly, I think my version is much better. However, I have to admit the nose section is not as pointed as in my previous version, so I had to correct it, even though it looks less elegant now.
http://www.uni-siegen.de/~ihe/bs/startrek/schematics/sydney.jpg

There is no aft view, but the whole aft section is labeled with something like "engine exhaust" (don't remember exactly, and it's German anyway). It is obvious that there must be impulse engines, but I doubt it's thast huge. I think the impulse engines are the small rectangular things sticking out from the bottom (which are not visible at all in the FF).