Assuming that all starships belong to one or two of the following, what exactly would the appropriate designation for a runabout, or would that deserve its own special grouping?
Explorer Heavy Cruiser Medium Cruiser Light Cruiser Scout Frigate Escort Science Vessel Survey Vessel
P.S. If you find these designations against your particular religion, please refrain from sharing your dissatisfaction.
------------------ "Stirs a large iron pot. Casting a spell on Vermont." -- John Linnell
Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :
<Chris de Burgh>
"Well here we go again... We are moving from a spark to a flame..."
</Chris de Burgh>
------------------ "Well, I guess we're an Ovaltine family." "MORE OVALTINE PLEASE!" -American Radio Ads... *gag*... one more reason I'm glad to be above the 49th.
Posted by Dax (Member # 191) on :
This topic is just asking for trouble...
Anyway, the term runabout is a canon type designation. The Danube-class is the most common of the type. End of story.
------------------ "Forgive me if I don't share your euphoria!" (Weyoun to Dukat, Tears of the Prophets) Dax's Ships of STAR TREK
Posted by Michael Dracon (Member # 4) on :
Excuse me!!
The Danube class is the first Runabout type.
Sisko was on a planet where several Federation people crashed. They didn't know what a Runabout was. Sisko explained it was a new type of ship.
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Posted by Baloo (Member # 5) on :
Bear: This is a touchy subject, but I don't mind hashing it out anyway. There are (my opinion) not enough canon references to classification schemes to fully determine just exactly what label would be applied to every type of ship. For that reason I (mostly) ignore canon at my own website and apply my own scheme.
Speaking of which, can anyone remind me what thread it was I posted that lengthy classification scheme? I'd like to copy it for future reference. That's the most thought I'd put into the subject for a long time.
--Baloo
------------------ Welcome to the museum of really dangerous things. Feel free to pick up and handle any of the displays. www.geocities.com/Area51/Shire/8641/
Posted by Aethelwer (Member # 36) on :
AAAAARRRRRGGGGHHH! SMASH...KILL...DESTROY...
------------------ Frank's Home Page "Okay, what's an MSD?" - Rick Sternbach
Posted by Bernd (Member # 6) on :
*agrees with Frank*
------------------ "When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." A somewhat different Janeway in VOY: "Living Witness" Ex Astris Scientia
Posted by Baloo (Member # 5) on :
I found it!
Here it is again. It is not canon. I don't believe it really is possible to come up with a canon classification scheme.
I realize there is little agreement with regard to classifications. Logically, there are size classifications and functional classifications, and no-one agrees on those either.
On my own site, I apply (inconsistently) my own system of classification. What category a ship belongs in is defined by it's size, it's primary mission (function) and the era in which it was produced.
Roughly, the classifications are as follows:
Size classifications:
Pod
A small one-or two-person vessel designed (generally) for short-duration missions.
Shuttle
Pre-TOS-era: A small vessel capable of surface-to-orbit and orbit-to-surface (transorbital) operations.
TOS-era: A small vessel designed for transorbital and/or interplanetary travel. Not warp-capable.
TNG-era: A small vessel that may or may not be warp capable, designed for short-duration (measured in weeks, at most) missions.
All: Shuttles generally aren't designed to operate for extended periods of time without support provided by a surface installation, starbase, or host vessel.
Runabout
A small warp-powered vessel designed for longer-duration missions than a shuttle. Runabouts generally are equipped with most essential starship systems, and are designed for extended use without external support. A runabout is the smallest type of vessel that is considered a "real" starship.
Corvette
TOS-era: A small military vessel, generally used in groups for patrol or escort duties, and supported at extended intervals by larger support vessels.
Post-TOS era: Not used.
Frigate
TOS-era: The smallest vessel capable of operating alone for extended periods of time by itself, or, more likely, as part of a group of vessels assembled to perform a specific mission.
TNG-era: The smallest type of starship other than the runabout. While runabouts are general-purpose vessels, frigates are designed for more specific mission profiles, such as exploration, research, or combat missions. This classification has expanded to include vessels that would, in former times, be classified as corvettes, as well as larger types that would have been classified as destroyers.
Destroyer
TOS-era: A medium-sized vessel capable of extended independent operations.
TNG-era: Not used. The light cruiser and heavy frigate classifications include vessels that in former times would have fallen in this category.
Cruiser
Includes the largest types of vessel used by Starfleet. Cruisers are generally capable of operating for many years without external support, without regard to their functional mission. Cruisers much larger or smaller than average are often sub-classified as "light" or "heavy" cruisers.
Functional classifications:
[Note: I constantly modify this list.]
Fighter
A small combat vessel designed for maximum firepower in a minimum spaceframe. Mission duration is typically measured in hours.
Escort
A (usually) small combat vessel with a primary mission to defend other (usually unarmed) vessels.
Monitor
A large Capital ship capable of high sublight velocity but low (or no) warp capability. Monitors are designed to defend a system or important Starbase, and rely upon the support provided by ground, orbital, or deep space installations for replenishment of supplies and maintenance.
Carrier
Any vessel designed to carry other vessels as part of its primary mission brief. While many vessels carry auxiliary vehicles (shuttles, for example), the carrier 's primary mission is to launch, recover, and support smaller vessels with specific (rather than general-purpose) mission profiles.
Tender
Any vessel with the primary mission of providing logistical and maintenance support to other vessels. Tenders are often used to support vessels which cannot return to a starbase or other installation for resupply.
Exploration (used as a prefix)
Used to signify any vessel with a primary mission to expand the boundaries of known space, such as a mapping vessel or general-purpose exploration ship. An Exploration cruiser is a cruiser-sized vessel with an exploration mission. Generically referred to as "explorers".
Research (used as a prefix)
Any vessel with a primary mission to increase our knowledge of or within explored space. Often referred to as "science vessels".
Battle (used as a prefix)
Used as a prefix, this designation signifies that the vessel's primary mission is combat (generally ship-to-ship). A Battle-frigate is a frigate designed primarily for ship-to-ship combat, for example.
Battleship
Specifically, a battleship is a heavy battlecruiser.
Tug
Any vessel with a primary mission of towing vessels or cargo external to its hull. May be applied to almost any size vessel.
Liner
Any vessel with a primary mission of passenger transportation.
Transport
Any vessel with a primary mission of transporting non-passenger cargo.
There.
------------------ Welcome to the museum of really dangerous things. Feel free to pick up and handle any of the displays. www.geocities.com/Area51/Shire/8641/
Posted by bear (Member # 124) on :
I have already made my naming scheme , but what I need is a designation for smaller craft. Something that means small and short term, and can include planetary hoppers, shuttle craft, and runabouts. My brain feels like jello,the only title I can think of for this grouping is "Provisional craft", but this doesn't sound right either. Runabouts only include the Danube and Yellowstone classes so that wouldn't work. Does anybody see what I am trying get at?
[This message has been edited by bear (edited November 03, 1999).]
Posted by The First One (Member # 35) on :
It's funny, but I always used to think that 'Escort' was a damn useless classification for the Defiant-class. But all of a sudden it makes sense. It's the perfect 'black' covername for a warship.
After all, you have a starship whose function is to defend other starships. That means that any defensive capabilities it has can also be very offensive, since it can't just have a large shield to protect the other ship, but can be used to destroy an attacker before it attacks its prey. After that, all you have is rules of engagement, and those can be bent any way you want to justify attacking another vessel. Result: instant warship. Very clever. . .
It laso fits in nicely with the functional classifications, After all, anything can be an Explorer. And anything can be an Escort.
Posted by Baloo (Member # 5) on :
Bear: I would suggest "auxiliary" or "light support" vessels. The term is vague enough to include a variety of general-purpose vessels. I generally use the term "auxiliary vessel" to designate any vessel that primarily does not operate independently (that is, it doesn't have it's own engineering crew, etc.) and can be operated by a lone person, regardless of its actual capacity for passengers or cargo.
Light support vessels is also vague enough to be used in the sense you are getting at. I coined the term from the aviation usage of "light plane", meaning a small aircraft that is designed more for personal than commercial use. I'm certain there's a Federal Aircraft Regulation that gives a more formal definition, but I could not find one to cite as a reference.
--Baloo
------------------ Welcome to the museum of really dangerous things. Feel free to pick up and handle any of the displays. www.geocities.com/Area51/Shire/8641/
Posted by Aethelwer (Member # 36) on :
bear: Why do you need to come up with a designation in the first place?
------------------ Frank's Home Page "Okay, what's an MSD?" - Rick Sternbach
Posted by Elim Garak (Member # 14) on :
Oh-oh.
------------------ Elim Garak: "Oh, it's just Garak. Plain, simple Garak. Now, good day to you, Doctor. I'm so glad to have made such an... interesting new friend today." (DS9: "Past Prologue")
Posted by bear (Member # 124) on :
I guess Auxiliary craft is the best I have heard. I really appreciate the help Baloo. Frank: It's for my webpage.
Bear: No sweat (translation: thank you and/or you're welcome ). I try to make my classification scheme flexible enough that if I make a mistake, it still works. Some folks try to rig their classification scheme so that their favorite ship falls into the classification they think it should, then try to force-fit the rest of the scheme around that.
I really think "explorer" isn't a description of a specific type so much as it is a description of what several kinds of ship might do. "Frigate", on the other hand, basically says nothing unless you know it's smaller than a destroyer and bigger than a corvette. Unless, of course, in *your* scheme, frigates are bigger than destroyers.
<Trivia>In the U.S. Navy, frigates were once bigger than destroyers. Then, during WW II, new destroyers were introduced that were bigger than the frigates, so they had destroyers both larger and smaller than frigates. If I'm not mistaken, some time during the 1960s, some of the tiny destroyers were "promoted" to frigates, while some frigates were "promoted" to destroyer. Complicating this, I think some destroyers were (without modification) reclassified as cruisers to bring our fleet's cruiser strength (in numbers only) to parity with the USSR's cruiser strength. Go fig.</Trivia>
--Baloo
------------------ Welcome to the museum of really dangerous things. Feel free to pick up and handle any of the displays. www.geocities.com/Area51/Shire/8641/
[This message has been edited by Baloo (edited November 04, 1999).]
Posted by Dax (Member # 191) on :
Altair: What the hang is your problem?! You're only supporting what I already said.
Side note- The scout from Insurrection is most likely a runabout type vessel. A supposed advancement on the Danube-class I bet.
The term runabout is undisputably canon!
------------------ "Forgive me if I don't share your euphoria!" (Weyoun to Dukat, Tears of the Prophets) Dax's Ships of STAR TREK
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
If any ship in Insurrection is a runabout, then the one flown by Picard and Worf!
It's almost the size of a Danube. It has impractically small entry doors for a shuttle. It carries onboard transporters similar to the Danube ones. And it has internal bulkheads, corridors and the like. Plus, it's heavily armed with aft and presumably forward (micro)torps.
Since I won't get my sales video on Insurrection until X-mas, could somebody tell me whether the craft is called a shuttle somewhere in the movie? If not, all the better...
Did the final version have any registry at all? If it did, was it NCC-1701-E/something or NCC-something?
And then on to the obligatory provoking:
I think that both Explorer and Runabout are valid ship type names comparable to Cruiser in the Starfleet system. However, Runabout and Courier could both fall under the more general term "shuttle", while vessels from Corvette/Surveyor/Escort up would be "ships". Capt. Keogh in "Jem'Hadar" does call the Peregrines "armed shuttlecraft", and seems to be at least halfway serious - so the similarly sized and equipped Danubes could also be "shuttlecraft" despite being Runabouts.
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by Elim Garak (Member # 14) on :
The Type-11 is officially 16 metres long, not really runabout-sized. The scout was only about a metre less in length than the Danube-class ships.
------------------ Elim Garak: "Oh, it's just Garak. Plain, simple Garak. Now, good day to you, Doctor. I'm so glad to have made such an... interesting new friend today." (DS9: "Past Prologue")
Posted by Dax (Member # 191) on :
Elim: Thanks for the cover The scout is actually a metre longer than the Danube-class, though. Hold on, this feels like deja vu
------------------ "Forgive me if I don't share your euphoria!" (Weyoun to Dukat, Tears of the Prophets) Dax's Ships of STAR TREK
). I try to make my classification scheme flexible enough that if I make a mistake, it still works. Some folks try to rig their classification scheme so that their favorite ship falls into the classification they think it should, then try to force-fit the rest of the scheme around that.