And whatever classes the Relativity and Raven were...
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The Unknown Vulcan
http://www.phix-it.com/~perseus/
--Baloo
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Jesus saves.
Moses invests.
--Bumper Sticker
www.geocities.com/Area51/Shire/8641/
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The Unknown Vulcan
http://www.phix-it.com/~perseus/
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Frank's Home Page
"Okay, what's an MSD?" - Rick Sternbach
And it is Nova, not Noble.
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Presenting the NX-59650. It can slice! It can dice! It can seperate into THREE parts!!
Now available with THREE FULL warpcores!
But wait! Buy now, and get a free number upgrade to NX-74913!
To order, call: 0800-PROMETHEUS
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7 of 9 alarm clock: "Wake up. Resistance is futile."
Dilbert: "I wonder if I could ever date a woman like Jeri Ryan."
7 of 9 alarm clock: "That too is futile."
Federation Starship Datalink - Now with a pop-up on every page...damn you Tripod!
Also, supposedly, the relativity is (or will be) a Wells Class vessel.
Don't forget the Scoutship from First Contact.
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"Resolve and thou art free."
"lies on floor, stomping" Bwahahahahaa!!!!
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-You're crazy!!!
-Funny, I thought I was pisces!
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"Women feel the emotions of happiness, hatred, anger, helplessness, and desire.
Men on the other hand feel the guy version, Horny."
-Michael_T
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Frank's Home Page
"Okay, what's an MSD?" - Rick Sternbach
And, according to Frank, one of the obscure classes (Deneva, was it?) was seen for an instant as it exploded in "Legacy".
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"Agh! Save me from the wee turtles!"
-Groundskeeper Willy, The Simpsons
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Frank's Home Page
"Okay, what's an MSD?" - Rick Sternbach
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Elim Garak: "Oh, it's just Garak. Plain, simple Garak. Now, good day to you, Doctor. I'm so glad to have made such an... interesting new friend today." (DS9: "Past Prologue")
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"Stirs a large iron pot. Casting a spell on Vermont."
--
John Linnell
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When you're in the Sol system, come visit the Starfleet Museum
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Rimmer: "Holly, put a trace on Paranoia."
Holly: "What's a trace?"
Rimmer: "It's space jargon. It means 'find him'."
Holly: "No it doesn't. You just made it up to sound cool."
-Red Dwarf: "Confidence & Paranoia"
If there schematics of the ships from the Star Fleet Technical Manuel,then this raises a question. Did the producers and directors of Star Trek 1 and 2 view the manuel as being "canonical"? And what about the USS Antares? Two items of notice-the USS Antares shares a registry with a ship of the Scout Class (Hermes) and is identified as SS Antares in the official synopsis to "Charlie X". This would change the status of the ship to a civilian ship and not the class ship of the Antares Class. In summation, this complicates the issue of the Star Fleet Technical Manuel and the USS Antares. According to Paramount, whatever is seen or heard on the episodes and films is canonical, so if the ships from the SFTM are in a film, this makes them canonical and this makes the SFTM canonical. What a fuckin mess. Jeez.
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takeoffs are optional; landings are mandatory
If the Designs from the Technical manual are in the Movies, then the designs themselves, and only the designs are canon. None of the names of whatnot.
I'm not really understanding your whole rant about the Antares. If you are comparing the name to any names in the Technical Manual, it is irrelevant. The names in those books are not canon, so you don't have to worry. And what synopsis are you talking about? One from startrek.com? Anything on that should be taken with a grain of salt. Or a whole silo. Remember the whole USS Antares NCC-47404?, Borg Killer at Wolf 424? Or the USS Trail?
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"I've never seen anything this beautiful in the entire galaxy. Alright, give me the bomb" -Ultra Magnus, Fight or Flee
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Frank's Home Page
"We've got some new songs here that are not even on the MP3 thing. They're not available in any format, except of course the bootlegs that seem to proliferate all through our audience, as we watch people lip-synch along to songs that HAVEN'T BEEN RELEASED! DAMN YOU!" - John Linnell
[This message has been edited by The Shadow (edited November 08, 1999).]
A week or two ago, someone posted information about the technical manual (http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Stargate/9081/rememberfj.html). This site tells all about the manual and its use in the movies. Highly recommended.
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When you're in the Sol system, come visit the Starfleet Museum
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"I've never seen anything this beautiful in the entire galaxy. Alright, give me the bomb" -Ultra Magnus, Fight or Flee
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Rimmer: "Holly, put a trace on Paranoia."
Holly: "What's a trace?"
Rimmer: "It's space jargon. It means 'find him'."
Holly: "No it doesn't. You just made it up to sound cool."
-Red Dwarf: "Confidence & Paranoia"
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When you're in the Sol system, come visit the Starfleet Museum
I think the model on Maxwell's desk is the original study model for USS Melbourne, as seen in "Future Imperfect". In that episode, this model (which has an elongated secondary hull compared to the real Nebula class) had two miniature warp nacelles in place of the dorsal module. These nacelles had red ramscoops and blue field windows, as all proper nacelles ought to have.
In "The Wounded", the real Nebula debuted for the first time, as a full-scale photographic model that was way bigger than the desktop study model. Obviously, this big model could not be used as desktop decoration, so the prop people chose the next best alternative: they slightly modified the old Melbourne model by painting the miniature nacelles white and connecting them with a piece of plastic so that the model *superficially* looks like the Phoenix.
If one looks closely, one can see the painted-over and connected nacelles of the desktop model do not quite match the wider and more graceful arch used as the module of the Phoenix. The too long secondary hull isn't evident from these photos, though.
The desktop model received a second "refit" when it was added to the desktop collection of Capt. Sisko. The ersatz module was replaced by a proper Nebula triangular model, but the secondary hull still sticks out.
So if we argue that models are canon, then we have proof for at least seven Nebula variants!
-Melbourne as seen in "Future Imperfect"
-Phoenix as filmed
-Phoenix as desktop model
-modern Nebula as filmed before Generations
-modern Nebula as filmed in Generations
-modern Nebula as seen in CGI in DS9
-modern Nebula as seen on Sisko's desktop
Three of these share the elongated secondary hull, so perhaps that config ought to become canon?
Timo Saloniemi
Timo Saloniemi
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Frank's Home Page
"We've got some new songs here that are not even on the MP3 thing. They're not available in any format, except of course the bootlegs that seem to proliferate all through our audience, as we watch people lip-synch along to songs that HAVEN'T BEEN RELEASED! DAMN YOU!" - John Linnell
By the way, the 1-nacelle Constitution variants in the SFTM are called Saladin (not Cyngus) and Hermes.
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When you're in the Sol system, come visit the Starfleet Museum
No, your not delusional, I mentioned it here a LONG time ago - its probably been forgotten... maybe if we ask Mr G. nicely he'd do a nice big screen capture of it.
The nacelles were also attaced differently - on the side like a Constellation class.
According to Mike Okuda - they dropped the E refit model and stuck it back together wrong... but how could they do that!?!
The saucer also had a thick ring around it - like an enlarged sensor rim - like on the ED... (from where they glued it back together I guess)
I wondered what it was doing in the drafting room... I suggested it might have been a ship that had a lot of subsystems of the ED - i.e. a testbed ship - like the Pegasus.
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"Remove your hand or I will remove your arm!" - 7 of 9
hmm...
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"The things hollow--it goes on forever--and--oh my God!--it's full of stars!" -David Bowman's last transmission back to Earth, 2001: A Space Odyssey
[This message has been edited by The359 (edited November 09, 1999).]
(I just added the Pegasus info - from what Admiral Millenium guy said)
Also, weren't they going to show an E nil era ship in "Cause and Effect" but again ran out of money!?!
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"Remove your hand or I will remove your arm!" - 7 of 9
Yes, I was also wondering if this ship might be a test bed: but for what? Was this drafting room only for propulsion systems or was it a more general drafting room? If it does not represent a test bed, could it just be a famous ship or one on which someone working at UP had served? Also, I wonder if Constellation style engines were refitted to all surviving Constitution refits or if this was a special case. (This assumes that Constellation-type engines were developed after the Constitution refit engines.)
Yes a screen cap would be most desirable!
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When you're in the Sol system, come visit the Starfleet Museum
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When you're in the Sol system, come visit the Starfleet Museum
The Pegasus was originally supposed to be a four-nacelled Cheyenne-like ship.
The Constitution/Constellation redub was in "The Battle."
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Frank's Home Page
"We've got some new songs here that are not even on the MP3 thing. They're not available in any format, except of course the bootlegs that seem to proliferate all through our audience, as we watch people lip-synch along to songs that HAVEN'T BEEN RELEASED! DAMN YOU!" - John Linnell
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Rimmer: "Holly, put a trace on Paranoia."
Holly: "What's a trace?"
Rimmer: "It's space jargon. It means 'find him'."
Holly: "No it doesn't. You just made it up to sound cool."
-Red Dwarf: "Confidence & Paranoia"
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Frank's Home Page
"We've got some new songs here that are not even on the MP3 thing. They're not available in any format, except of course the bootlegs that seem to proliferate all through our audience, as we watch people lip-synch along to songs that HAVEN'T BEEN RELEASED! DAMN YOU!" - John Linnell
I've only seen part of "The Pegasus" (believe it or not, the cable transmission was knocked out by a typhoon), but I don't remember seeing any schematic. Does this ship look like something from the Ambassador era?
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When you're in the Sol system, come visit the Starfleet Museum
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Frank's Home Page
"We've got some new songs here that are not even on the MP3 thing. They're not available in any format, except of course the bootlegs that seem to proliferate all through our audience, as we watch people lip-synch along to songs that HAVEN'T BEEN RELEASED! DAMN YOU!" - John Linnell
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"All you people, can't you see, can't you see
How your love's affecting our reality
Everytime we're down
You can make it right
And that makes you larger than life"
-Backstreet Boys
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Frank's Home Page
"We've got some new songs here that are not even on the MP3 thing. They're not available in any format, except of course the bootlegs that seem to proliferate all through our audience, as we watch people lip-synch along to songs that HAVEN'T BEEN RELEASED! DAMN YOU!" - John Linnell
I also see the two tiny nacelles. The explanation is also reasonable in that the pod is hardly taller than the saucer, so it can't be the studio model (apart from being too small). The only model of this size that did exist is probably the one from "Future Imperfect", and why change it too much?Seven variants! I have had only five so far, since I didn't count the CGI. The question is how many different variants of the Nebula exist as real starships. I think there are three or four:
1. The Phoenix with the round pod. The pod is probably detachable and the rest may be identical to other Nebula class ships. Still, it might be a different modular concept considering that also the support pylons of the Phoenix are completely different than the single pylon of the Sutherland.
2. The Sutherland.
3. The Farragut. Some detail changes here, for instance, the RCS thrusters. Might be a different (older) production batch.
(4. The "Future Imperfect" Nebula. The whole situation was only an illusion created by an alien. However, there is no reason to create a non-existing ship and risk that Riker detects that he is being deceived. On the other hand, who prevents 24th century model builders from kitbashing? They might find it equally cool as some individuals today.)
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"When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way."
A somewhat different Janeway in VOY: "Living Witness"
Ex Astris Scientia
2. Maybe those nacelles are the top and side views!?!
3. I had forgotten how fat Riker got! *grin*
4. Remember Barash in "Future Imperfect" took the "memories" of Riker to create a future... he had Minuet as his mother... now that'd be an interesting concept... The Doctor impregnates someone - and that person can't leave the holodeck
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"Remove your hand or I will remove your arm!" - 7 of 9
The nacelles atop the stern seem identical to Galaxy or Nebula nacelles in shape, despite their smaller size. OTOH, the size seems to come quite close to that used by you and others for the New Orleans nacelles (which are a bit lengthened, though, as you point out).
Now, I keep thinking of those "five-engined" B-747s that ferry spare engines on their port wings. Perhaps this specific Nebula was ferrying these bulky and probably ultra-heavy starship components to a distant yard or a distressed starship? Every good scale model kit of a jet fighter should contain the mundane cargo pods in addition to the more flashy missiles and bombs - so every starship model worth its price ought to have the optional cargo sling as well. And Riker (or the alien kid running the fantasy) might have fancied using this option on his model to make it different from the models found on the desktops of other captains.
The question then becomes, which starship type would this specific cargo be destined for?
And the answer is, of course, Freedom or Niagara. Those could definitely use a canonically confirmed nacelle that's shaped like the Galaxy one, but is smaller to go with the downscaled saucer! Bernd, can you do the honors from that blurry picture (or the better one at Miarecki's home page) to see if they would fit?
Timo Saloniemi
-No short phaser strips on aft saucer
-No impulse engines whatsover!
Even the Farragut still had the tiny grilles below the saucer lip to denote impulse engines, IIRC. The CGI doesn't. I'm not sure about the short phaser strips under the secondary hull fantail. They aren't there in the Phoenix or the Sutherland, but the Sutherland does have something that looks like two-sided adhesive tape in this location (according to TNG:The Continuing Mission photographs). The Farragut might have had proper strips fitted, and these could have been copied onto the CGI, or then not.
If the CGI is a distinct design, then there are five "real" Nebulas: Melbourne (as seen in "BoBW II"), Phoenix (as seen flying), Sutherland, Farragut, and the CGI ship. Only one of these is drastically different: the Melbourne has the longer hull. But mercifully, this cannot be seen in "BoBWII". So perhaps the longer hull is a mistake perpetuated by Monogram of the 24th century, and only present in tabletop models!
Timo Saloniemi
Another possibility is that the Nebula is used as a testbed for the small nacelles. Maybe this is actually the first Nebula ever built (the USS Nebula NX-60xxx), and unlike the other ships that made it into regular service, it is still in experimental status. It is also possible that the secondary hull was shortened for the subsequent ships, and only the USS Nebula retained the long hull. I know that locomotive prototypes are often used as test vehicles, since the differences to the series models are too many to employ them for daily service (difficulties with maintenance and spare parts).
I should have a better image of the Future Imperfect Nebula somewhere, so I could measure the nacelles. If this model was made from two AMT kits (the big and the small Enterprise-D kit), the scale would be obvious, this case the small nacelles would be 56% the length of the large ones. I will try to draw a 2D sketch.
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"When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way."
A somewhat different Janeway in VOY: "Living Witness"
Ex Astris Scientia
Unfortunately, the pic also could be used to argue that the ship in question is the Melbourne, not the Nebula - the registry is *almost* visible . Anyway, the top nacelles do seem like 56% versions of the bottom ones, which comes very close to an unstretched variant of the New Orleans nacelles. So those engines would make a Freedom very similar in size to its forebears Hermes and Saladin. Niagara in turn would shrink to Constitution dimensions, provided that the Fact Files image is to be trusted at all.
Dang, I'm getting virtually no work done today
Timo Saloniemi
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"Forgive me if I don't share your euphoria!" (Weyoun to Dukat, Tears of the Prophets)
Dax's Ships of STAR TREK
I must say Frank's grabs are always so crisp and delightful... I'm thinking of getting a vid-cap-card... what is a good one!?! Frank...?------------------
Ralph: Um, Miss Hoover? There's a dog in the vent.
Hoover: Ralph, remember the time you said Snagglepuss was outside?
Ralph: He was going to the bathroom.
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-You're crazy!!!
-I thought I was pisces!
They supposedly changed the ship to an Excelsior in "Emissary" simply because they thought it would look better. Just another one of those things...
Anyway Nimrod, I can throw your question right back at you. What is there to prove that the Melbourne was the Admiral's ship?
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"Forgive me if I don't share your euphoria!" (Weyoun to Dukat, Tears of the Prophets)
Dax's Ships of STAR TREK
[This message has been edited by Dax (edited November 13, 1999).]
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"Alright, so it's impossible. How long will it take?"
-Commander Adams, Forbidden Planet
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Frank's Home Page
"We've got some new songs here that are not even on the MP3 thing. They're not available in any format, except of course the bootlegs that seem to proliferate all through our audience, as we watch people lip-synch along to songs that HAVEN'T BEEN RELEASED! DAMN YOU!" - John Linnell
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-You're crazy!!!
-I thought I was pisces!
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"Alright, so it's impossible. How long will it take?"
-Commander Adams, Forbidden Planet
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Zone/6630/picfsentabt.html
I can imagine that this might might be of some interest...
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Phase III: Where No One Has Gone Before...
"A man's reach must exceed his grasp, or what's a heaven for?"
Robert Browning, Andrea del Sarto
With sideways stuck on sideways...
And large black notches on the saucer...
As for a class? Korolev? Springfield? Doubtful if it's Constitution, right?
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"The things hollow--it goes on forever--and--oh my God!--it's full of stars!" -David Bowman's last transmission back to Earth, 2001: A Space Odyssey
What the caps don't show clearly are the ends of nacelles. I thought that the nacelles ends were blunt, like Constellation nacelles. Also, the "blotches" are where the windows pieces were left off from this crappy model kit.
However, new engines would not justify a new class designation in the absence of other changes to the hulls. Aircraft get new engines all the time without changing names or numbers: at most a letter is added.
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When you're in the Sol system, come visit the Starfleet Museum
Timo Saloniemi
Okuda did confirm that the ship was originally the study Nebula and was later changed to the ILM Excelsior. So really, the ship is either or both, depending on how you want to look at it. The rego wasn't clear (or visible at all) in any of the sightings.
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"Forgive me if I don't share your euphoria!" (Weyoun to Dukat, Tears of the Prophets)
Dax's Ships of STAR TREK
[This message has been edited by Dax (edited November 15, 1999).]
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-You're crazy!!!
-I thought I was pisces!
I'm in transition between internet providers and have about 10 minutes left of my existing account. I'll see you all again as a new net entity...
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"Forgive me if I don't share your euphoria!" (Weyoun to Dukat, Tears of the Prophets)
Dax's Ships of STAR TREK
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"When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way."
A somewhat different Janeway in VOY: "Living Witness"
Ex Astris Scientia
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"When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way."
A somewhat different Janeway in VOY: "Living Witness"
Ex Astris Scientia