Flare Sci-Fi Forums: Stupid(?) question: Where are the Jefferies tubes?

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Posted by Bernd (Member # 6) on :

Well, you wouldn't expect someone who knows the show for years and has intensively cared about Trek tech to ask such a question. However, I wonder whether the horizontal Jefferies Tubes are on the same level as the decks (1) or between the decks (2).

1)
- I don't see any JT's in the MSD's. This could be because the cross-section is not running through a JT, but I doubt this applies to every MSD of every ship.
- I think there should be a JT on every deck. The average deck height is 3.5m. Subtract .8m for the JT and at least .4m for the two wall strengths in this case, and there are only 2.3m left. The rooms are definitely taller, unless humanity has undergone a shrinking process.
- JT entry hatches are frequently featured on the E-D, Voyager and DS9. I'm not so sure about the latter, but the crawlways are on the same deck as the entry hatches on Voyager an the E-D. This doesn't exclude most of the JT's are actually running between the decks, but why waste the room on the same level as the deck too?
- It is often referred to a "Jefferies tube x on deck y". This designation would not be definite if the JT's were between two decks.
- The JT's wouldn't fill out the complete area between two decks. What else could be there except for emptiness? Of course, this room could be used to create taller rooms in the deck below, but I haven't seen such a room (except for rooms that occupy exactly two decks (holodeck).

2)
- I don't see any horizontal JT's in the blueprints.
- Why not use the full available deck height for the JT's? Answer: because they are between the decks.
- The JT's would unnecessarily complicate the architecture of turbolifts and corridors if they were on the same level too. It is already often enough the case that a corridor is blocked because a lift is crossing on the same level. Guess how complicated it would be with additional JT's!
- If the JT's were easily accessible from any deck, it wouldn't be necessary to connect them all which is obviously the case. Alternatively, the ship could have stairways for the convenience of the crew. The "network structure" makes more sense with JT's between the decks.
- I remember one episode where the JT was used to access the room underneath, I think it was "Power Play" where crew members were obsessed by aliens and had occupied Ten Forward. Maybe there are still more episodes. Of course, this JT could be on the same level as deck 9, but there would be more likely a room directly above Ten Forward (windows!).

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"When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way."
A somewhat different Janeway in VOY: "Living Witness"
Ex Astris Scientia

Posted by The First One (Member # 35) on :

*LMAO@"obsessed by aliens"*

"Sit in! Sit in! What do we want? More aliens! When do we want them? Now!" 8)

I think that since TNG the view of Jeffries' Tubes has changed. Before they were just tubes giving you access to ship's systems. . . now they're this whole handy alternative transportation network. Wanna sneak around? Use a tube! Personally I don't think there should be nearly as many as are shown to exist, , ,

Posted by Bernd (Member # 6) on :

Would "possessed by aliens" have been better?

The JT's have become a plot vehicle indeed. What disturbs me most is that they are not consistent in the otherwise well-considered Enterprise-D tech.

Posted by Black Knight (Member # 134) on :

I seem to remember that in that one Voyager episode where Tuvok is giving the Maquis starfleet training, they go up several decks, up *underneath* the Messhall, and come up in the middle. This would support the between decks theory.

As for what else could be in that space between decks, structural support, ODN relays, Power Transfer Conduits, Circuitry, SIF/IDF Generators Internal sensors, etc.

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Quark-"Stop. Or I'll disintigrate this hostage."
20th Century General-"With Your Finger?"
Quark-"With my death ray."
20th Century General-"Looks alot like a finger to me."

Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :

The answer: both. However, for the most part, they are between decks. As mentioned we've seen them used multiple times to access a deck from above or below. But, then, we've also seen people go into Jeffries tubes via access doors that are in the wall, rather than in the floor or ceiling ("Relativity" comes to mind...).

Of course, there's also that little matter of the six-foot diameter Jeffries tubes seen in "The Hunted"... :-)

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"Alright, so it's impossible. How long will it take?"
-Commander Adams, Forbidden Planet

Posted by Baloo (Member # 5) on :

Those must be for really big jeffries...?

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Posted by Bernd (Member # 6) on :

The combination of same-level and between-the-decks tubes could solve a few of the above problems.

I recently wonder if the Jefferies Tubes as featured in the show are useful at all. Generally, it wouldn't be necessary to follow the path of a plasma conduit or data line, but it would be sufficient to know where the maintenance or repair is necessary. Easy access could be provided through normal side walls, floors and ceilings. BTW, there seem to be plasma conduits running behind every corridor wall, so this would be another argument against having an additional tube on the same level to access them.

Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :

I believe some of the vert JT's probably run along with the turbo lift shafts. We usually see them connect to a horizontal tube on every deck or so.

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"Resolve and thou art free."

Posted by Bernd (Member # 6) on :

This would be useful to avoid too many crossings with corridors.

Posted by TerraZ on :

There's only one problem about having Jefferie,s Tubes between the decks... Remember FC? We Picard and his team move between decks by opening small hatches and they seem to open directly on the ceiling of the deck below. Further more, every vertical Jefferie's Tube section we've seen is as tall as a standard deck. I think that would make about half of the ship's interior to be filled with machinery instead of rooms, quarters and laboratory... I don't really like the idea, but it sure would make planning corridors and turbolist shafts a lot easier...

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-If you ask me, I think continuity is highly overrated...
*Brannon Braga*

-Give me Good Trek or give me Death!
*Me*

-Where were you when the brains were handed out?
*Sonic the Hedgehog*

Posted by Elim Garak (Member # 14) on :

"Relativity" also seemed to want to say that Engineering was on Deck Four.

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Elim Garak: "Oh, it's just Garak. Plain, simple Garak. Now, good day to you, Doctor. I'm so glad to have made such an... interesting new friend today." (DS9: "Past Prologue")

Posted by Black Knight (Member # 134) on :

I know, I hated that part! (from Relativity)

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Quark-"Stop. Or I'll disintigrate this hostage."

20th Century General-"With Your Finger?"

Quark-"With my death ray."

20th Century General-"Looks alot like a finger to me."

Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :

There is one positive side to having the ship full of Jeffries tubes instead of corridors. It suggests that it would *not* be possible to place a nicely rectangular, comfortably sized corridor in every location inside the ship's skin. And this is exactly the kind of suggestion we need to make it clear that this is an actual MACHINE we are seeing, not just a set of flimsy walls for shooting TV shows and movies.

Of course it would be ergonomically smarter to omit Jeffires tubes altogether and make everything accessible from the big corridors. But it is good that starship design is not dictated solely by ergonomics - there now is at least the *illusion* that starships are really built around the warp engines, with the crew compartments and other stuff just bolted onto them wherever the harsh realities of engineering allow.

Timo Saloniemi