I've got a cutaway poster of the E-D wich doesn't show any sign of the Cartography Room seen in "Generations". Was it ever mentioned or shown in any episode or is it just a mistake made by the movie-guys? Or is the entire Cartography thing just a holodeck program?
------------------ "There will be an answer, let it be..." Motto of the USS Sutherland
Posted by Davok (Member # 143) on :
There are to cutaways: the one from the TNG TM and the one from the Star Trek Blueprints. The latter (no, I don't have it) includes stellar cartography. Starfleet probably refitted the E-D some time between the series and the movie; they also got a new bridge module.
------------------ "Take it from me: it's a lot more fun asking questions than answering them." (Garak)
And there's the poster cutaway. That's probably what Prakesh means...
------------------ Elim Garak: "Oh, it's just Garak. Plain, simple Garak. Now, good day to you, Doctor. I'm so glad to have made such an... interesting new friend today." (DS9: "Past Prologue")
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
Yes, I think so. It's really 'standard' Star Trek style, and I don't know if its 100% canon.
------------------ "There will be an answer, let it be..." Motto of the USS Sutherland
Posted by The359 (Member # 37) on :
Stellar Cartography was mentioned in an earlier episode, but just in passing.
------------------ "The things hollow--it goes on forever--and--oh my God!--it's full of stars!" -David Bowman's last transmission back to Earth, 2001: A Space Odyssey
Posted by Davok (Member # 143) on :
The poster cutaway is the one from the "Blueprints". BTW, stellar cartography possibly existed but maybe it used to be only a small lab before they built in the new one.
------------------ "Take it from me: it's a lot more fun asking questions than answering them." (Garak)
"Stellar cartography" is one of the science departments on the ship. During the series, they just had small labs (generic science lab set). Presumably, the huge display room featured in Generations was installed during the upgrade.
And I don't think they got a new bridge module. It was simply refit, w/ the stations added at the sides, etc.
------------------ "Back in the 14th century, stair-stepping to the oldies was not considered manly." -John Scalzi, on the longbow as the best weapon of the second millennium
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
plus the steps and the new stool - i.e. form Worf.
------------------ "Its a CLOCK!" - Sisko, "Dramatis Personae" DS9.
Posted by Davok (Member # 143) on :
Maybe you're right. But they changed a lot of things. For example, the conn and ops consoles are closer to the captain's chair. I mean why should they change all these things? Certainly not to get a better camera perspective. I even wonder if they changed the bridge module some time during the season; Picard got a new chair, the walls looked different (they changed those ugly brown ODN access hatches next to the dedication plaque) and they removed the nice models from the observation lounge.
------------------ "Take it from me: it's a lot more fun asking questions than answering them." (Garak)
Er... I believe they removed those models somewhere around season four or five, didn't they?
------------------ "'...This boy is Ignorance. This girl is Want. Beware them both, and all of their degree, but most of all beware this boy, for on his brow I see that written which is Doom, unless the writing be erased. Deny it!' cried the Spirit stretching out its hand towards the city. 'Slander those who tell it ye! Admit it for your factious purposes, and make it worse. And abide the end!'" -Charles Dickens, A Christmas Carol
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
The bridge refit makes me think that they did NOT replace the entire module. If they did, they would probably have done a neater job with it.
What they seem to have done is install extra gear on the existing bridge. And what would then be more natural than to raise the center seats on a pedestal so that some of the extra stuff could be stored under that pedestal? Similarly, the side stations on the ramps would have plenty of equipment room underneath.
This is the way *I* would refit stuff into a starship bridge if given the choice!
As for Stellar Cartography, I'd like to think that it was always there, with adjoining smaller labs to the sides (first seen IIRC in TNG "Lessons"). The various noncanon cutaways can always be interpreted to represent the original plans for the ship before construction was completed in 2363. I see no reason to postulate any really major refit between TNG and Generations, since most of the sets in the movie were identical to the TNG ones.
Cutting open three decks for the nice viewer room would seem quite illogical (especially if it all could have been done with holograms). If, OTOH, the viewer room was part of the original ship, we have a perfect excuse for its existence: when the E-D was launched, shipboard holodecks were new and untested and probably would not have served as well as this physical room!
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by Cartman (Member # 256) on :
I speculate that the E-D received a major computer systems overhaul between "AGT" and "STG" (I know, it's not really the subject of this thread but I thought I'd mention it anyway) which included the new bridge module. When Troy "rings" at the door to Picard's ready-room you can hear this nice little "beep" which is also part of Voyager's computer systems - i.e., the refit E-D is equipped with bio-neural systems as well as Voyager.
------------------ "Cry havoc and let's slip the dogs of Evil"
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
The Ent D was never really finished. Troy explained that they were always adding new stuff on her tour with some alien dude. I would theorize that there was space available for it but that it wasn't operational right away. Maybe they received it during the ships refit after Best of Both Worlds.
Or it could be like 10 Forward. The lounge was always there, we just never saw until season two.
Here's the kicker, The Ent D blueprints that show every deck in blue print form show Stellar Cart. on three decks. I don't believe it shows the upgraded bridge though. I could be wrong on this, but I think I noticed this before. This would imply that the Stell. Cart. display room was there before Generations.
------------------ "Resolve and thou art free."
Posted by Lt. Tom on :
I remember reading somewhere that Ten Forward wasn't always there--that it was originally a phaser control room or something of the sort.
This has been another Random Observation(tm).
Posted by Dax (Member # 191) on :
Aban: The Blueprints says it has "displayed design condition from stardates 30789.32 to 47965.45". This period's prior to both "All Good Things..." and Generations. It would include everything up to and including "Preemptive Strike".
So that 3 level Stellar Cart. room was there before AGT and Gen.
------------------ "Forgive me if I don't share your euphoria!" (Weyoun to Dukat, Tears of the Prophets) Dax's Ships of STAR TREK
[This message has been edited by Dax (edited December 21, 1999).]
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Hey, I was right. I think it's a first. I'll hold to my opinion that this room was installed or upgraded at McKinley after the Borg attack then.
Dax: do you mean stardate 40789.32? 30789.32 would put it at least 3 years before the construction of the Ent D even began.
------------------ "Resolve and thou art free."
Posted by Dax (Member # 191) on :
Aban: Have you got the Blueprints? For some reason they do say 30789.32 which I'm thinking is in 2353. According to the Tech Manual, constuction of the Ent-D began in 2350. Even so, the ship was officially launched 40759.5 (2363) which is only just before the 40789.32 that you suggest. Could Sternbach have made a mistake with the Blueprint stardate, or did he intentionally make it start during construction?
------------------ "Forgive me if I don't share your euphoria!" (Weyoun to Dukat, Tears of the Prophets) Dax's Ships of STAR TREK
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Dax: I do have the blueprints and the TNG:Tech Man but I haven't looked at either of them for a while. I thought the Tech man said the Ent D took seven years to construct, but I could be wrong. I think a 10 year construction time is a tad long although she was only the 3rd Galaxy class to be built according to the Tech Man. Some of the bugs in the construction process may have still been present.
I don't think we can say that the blueprints represent the ship from launch to the end of the series though. Contless small changes to the ship would've been made throughout it's lifetime. I think we can say that this is the way the ship looked close to the end of the series though. It's also clear that the blueprints were meant to represent the ship before Generations so we know that the Stellar Cartography display room was there for at least a while before Generations.
------------------ "Resolve and thou art free."
Posted by Davok (Member # 143) on :
The TM gives a construction time of incredible 13 years (2350-2363). If this is true, Stardate 30xxx could be correct, but IMHO, 13 years are ridiculous.
------------------ "Take it from me: it's a lot more fun asking questions than answering them." (Garak)
TEL: They may have changed the sound of Picard's doorbell, but that's a huge leap to say that it means there was bio-neural circuitry on the E-D. It could simply mean that they uploaded new software into the computer, part of which included "Starfleet Computer Sounds, new version 3.5b", or something. Changing to a bio-neural system would have probably required stripping the ship of almost all its computer systems and putting in the new ones. This would be a major, major overhaul. I highly doubt they did that.
------------------ "'...This boy is Ignorance. This girl is Want. Beware them both, and all of their degree, but most of all beware this boy, for on his brow I see that written which is Doom, unless the writing be erased. Deny it!' cried the Spirit stretching out its hand towards the city. 'Slander those who tell it ye! Admit it for your factious purposes, and make it worse. And abide the end!'" -Charles Dickens, A Christmas Carol
[This message has been edited by TSN (edited December 22, 1999).]
Posted by Dax (Member # 191) on :
Aban: I've just noticed another note on the Blueprints that reads "Views incorporate Starfleet yard changes from stardate 40563.61 to 47312.78, plus authorized field repairs, replacements, upgrades, and equipment abandoned in place." So there you go.
------------------ "Forgive me if I don't share your euphoria!" (Weyoun to Dukat, Tears of the Prophets) Dax's Ships of STAR TREK
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
There we go indeed. You're the man Dax (or woman, depends on which lifetime I guess...)
------------------ "Resolve and thou art free."
Posted by Dax (Member # 191) on :
I'm a guy, Aban. Michael Dax is my full name. Yes, Dax is my real surname.
------------------ "Forgive me if I don't share your euphoria!" (Weyoun to Dukat, Tears of the Prophets) Dax's Ships of STAR TREK
[This message has been edited by Dax (edited December 23, 1999).]
Posted by Sunspot (Member # 77) on :
Not that I htink that hte Enterprise had BNC installed, or anything, but i dont think that a major overhaul would be needed. A few supplementary BNCnodes around the cores and at critical data junctions would be needed IMO.
------------------ If the government has no knowledge of aliens, then why does Title 14, Section 1211 of the Code of Federal Regulations, implemented on July 16, 1969, make it illegal for U.S. citizens to have any contact with extraterrestrials or their vehicles?
Why would Starfleet overhaul the entire Enterprise just to give the old man a new doorbell? You wouldn't buy a new house, just because you didn't like the doorbell, would you?
------------------ "There will be an answer, let it be..." Motto of the USS Sutherland
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Perhaps he just installed the latest version of Desktop Themes?
------------------ "The demon was an idea, the demon is awake. Scratch mark left across the surface of your mind. This hour now upon us, the hour has now arrived." -- Soul Coughing
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
That would be: Bridge Themes, by Microsoft. A completely new bridge layout, new sounds and a free Stellar Cartography included. Works only in Microsoft LCARS 2500
------------------ "There will be an answer, let it be..." Motto of the USS Sutherland
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Hmmm, can I pick that up at best buy?
Actually, if any body has a WAV file of the current Starfleet doorchime I'd love to get it. Please email it to [email protected]
