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<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="1" width="95%" align="center"> <tr bgcolor="#234c6f"><td> <table border="0" width="100%" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="1"> <tr bgcolor="#234c6f"> <td colspan="2" align="left"> <font size="3" color="#FFFFFF" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>T O P I C ��� R E V I E W</b> </font></td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>AndrewR</b> <br /><small>Member # 44</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2000,1,24,8,28,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">February 24, 2000</span> <span class="timeformat-0">08:28 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> This pic from Bernd's site - captured by Frank G<P><IMG SRC=http://www.uni-siegen.de/~ihe/bs/startrek/articles/wolf359/phaseiistudy2-screen1.jpg></IMG SRC><P>That HAS to be a klingon battle cruiser on the left there!<P>You can also see the 'station' in the center area to the left of the planet - you know the particle mining fountain seen in "Quality of Life" TNG.<P>Also about the possible Niagra? or is it Rigel - I'm confused<BR>anyway this pic:<P><IMG SRC=http://www.uni-siegen.de/~ihe/bs/startrek/articles/wolf359/niagara-screen2.jpg></IMG SRC><P>I'm gathering that the nacelle on the right - is the 'middle nacelle' and that the one on the left is the port nacelle - but instead of all being 'right side up' like on the E-D - this is at 90 degrees to the middle nacelle - and presumably for the other side too?<P>and one last thing<P>this FF diagram:<BR><IMG SRC=http://www.uni-siegen.de/~ihe/bs/startrek/schematics/niagara-official.jpg></IMG SRC><P>could that be the above and below nacelle ship? does there HAVE to be three nacelles on this diagram - we never DID see a top view of this did we?<P>OK and one more this:<BR>not the Niagra again - since I'm speculating that the port and starboard nacelles have their 'tops' facing 'left and right'<P>but a possible candidate for the Rigel - where the two/three nacelles are all 'the right side up' - like the E-D - no twisted nacelles to ninety degrees to the other...<P><IMG SRC=http://www.uni-siegen.de/~ihe/bs/startrek/articles/wolf359/niagara-screen1.jpg></IMG SRC><P>maybe its upside down - and that 'middle nacelle' is the engineering section?<P><BR>Andrew<P>------------------<BR>"What a wonderful and amazing scheme have we here of the magnificent vastness of the Universe! So many Suns, so many Earths...!" - Christian Huygens, <I>New Conjectures Concerning the Planetary Worlds, Their Inhabitants and Productions</I> (<I>ca</I> 1670)<P> <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Timo</b> <br /><small>Member # 245</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2000,1,24,8,53,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">February 24, 2000</span> <span class="timeformat-0">08:53 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Nice spotting for that station! And it has to be a Klingon cruiser, yes - perhaps Starfleet bought some of those at the end of the cold war so that they could be studied more closely? Or, given the fact that Qualor II is virtually next door to the Romulan Neutral Zone, perhaps this is a captured <I>Romulan</I> ship?<P>About the Niagara drawing: the Fact Files did display full forward, aft, top and botton views, so the ship in the picture does have three nacelles, two up and one down. Apparently, the picture has no bearing on "reality"...<P>The three-naceller in the photo is reportedly missing the starboard nacelle - only the top and port nacelles still remain. Okuda's statements make it very likely that this is the only three-naceller built for the episode, so this is very probably the Niagara.<P>The ship that peeks over the viewscreen edge seems quite identical to the three-naceller in the above photo. Note how one nacelle is missing its ramscoop dome, and how the saucer has a dark spot in exactly the same place in both ships. <P>And I think it's useless to try to identify a Rigel there. No ship model in the episode was labeled as the Rigel class USS Tolstoy, that much is pretty certain. And Okuda also said he had "reprimanded" Greg Jein for building a three-naceller when Gene Roddenberry wanted no ships with odd numbers of nacelles - so it's unlikely Jein or anybody else would have built another three-naceller, or Okuda would have mentioned his dissatisfaction with that ship as well.<P>Timo Saloniemi <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>AndrewR</b> <br /><small>Member # 44</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2000,1,24,9,12,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">February 24, 2000</span> <span class="timeformat-0">09:12 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Who built the Freedom - one-naceller - Greg Jein again?<BR>Was he reprimanded for that as well? it makes less sense than a three naceller...<P>Ohhhh I just tingle at the thought of it being a captured Romulan Cruiser - and it being in TNG and all - its so 'distant' the Romulan battle cruisers from TOS - you sometimes forget about them...<P>I'd love it to be Romulan... makes more sense too. <IMG SRC="http://flare.solareclipse.net/smile.gif"><P>------------------<BR>"What a wonderful and amazing scheme have we here of the magnificent vastness of the Universe! So many Suns, so many Earths...!" - Christian Huygens, <I>New Conjectures Concerning the Planetary Worlds, Their Inhabitants and Productions</I> (<I>ca</I> 1670)<P> <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Dane Simri</b> <br /><small>Member # 272</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2000,1,24,11,30,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">February 24, 2000</span> <span class="timeformat-0">11:30 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> *Is a bit concerned with AndrewR's "tingling..."*<P> <IMG SRC="http://flare.solareclipse.net/smile.gif"><BR><P>------------------<BR>Dane<P>"Let mental culture go on advancing, let the natural sciences progress in even greater extent and depth, and the human mind widen itself as much as it desires: beyond the elevation and moral culture of Christianity, as it shines forth in the Gospels, it will not go."<BR>Goethe<BR> <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Dat</b> <br /><small>Member # 302</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2000,1,24,11,51,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">February 24, 2000</span> <span class="timeformat-0">11:51 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Yes I think was Jein who built the Freedom...Damage already there.<P>------------------<BR>7 alarm clock: "Do not touch me."<BR>Dilbert: "Then how do I turn you off?"<BR>7: "Believe me, I am plenty turned off." <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Michael Dracon</b> <br /><small>Member # 4</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2000,1,24,16,16,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">February 24, 2000</span> <span class="timeformat-0">04:16 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> It that a Niagara (that's how it is spelled!!) just below the Enterprise??<P>------------------<BR>"I'm captain Kenny Redshirt of the Miranda Class USS Killedalot, NCC-1313."<BR>"I know it is an old ship, but..."<BR><B>KABOOOOMM!!</B><BR><I>"Oh my God! They killed Kenny! You bastards!"</I><P>(-=\V/=-) <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Dat</b> <br /><small>Member # 302</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2000,1,24,16,44,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">February 24, 2000</span> <span class="timeformat-0">04:44 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> It's most likely a Challenger because of reused stock footage.<P>------------------<BR>7 alarm clock: "Do not touch me."<BR>Dilbert: "Then how do I turn you off?"<BR>7: "Believe me, I am plenty turned off." <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Starbuck</b> <br /><small>Member # 153</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2000,1,25,3,54,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">February 25, 2000</span> <span class="timeformat-0">03:54 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Anyone care to theorise on what that ship is to the right of the Klingon cruiser, just below and slightly to the left of the E's saucer? It looks like a four-nacelled Excelsior...<P>Also, directly below the E is a study model based on a Ralph McQuarrie design for the Enterprise of the '70s. I'm not sure whether it was originally done for Phase II or The Motion Picture, but it's there...<P>------------------<BR>"Replicate some marmalade, Commander - helm control is toast!"<BR> <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Timo</b> <br /><small>Member # 245</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2000,1,25,4,52,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">February 25, 2000</span> <span class="timeformat-0">04:52 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> The four-nacelled Excelsior is indeed a four-nacelled Excesior! It is one of the study models made for ST3 by Bill George of ILM. For a long time, we fans thought there were only two study models made, both with just two nacelles, but Mike Okuda just told otherwise. That four-naceller is currently hanging in the ceiling of the graphics dept office! Mike <I>might</I> do a book later on, and is saving any photos of the ship for that.<P>As for theories... Since there apparently is no real model of the Rigel class, this one might be a Rigel! At least it is visible when Shelby speaks of the Rigel class Tolstoy in "BoBW". Of course, Rigels have registries up in the 68000s, which might not jibe with an Excelsior-like design.<P>The McQuarrie ship was apparently designed for "Planet of the Titans", the abortive movie that came after TOS/TAS but before the Phase II project.<P>The ships at Qualor II are probably best interpreted to be the very same ships that were destroyed at Wolf 359. They have simply been towed here to be used as spare parts. That would be the easiest way to explain why<BR>the possible Challenger in the lower center of that picture, and the possible cut-up Nebula on upper left,<BR>display the very same battle damage as the supposed Buran and Melbourne did in "BoBW".<P>Timo Saloniemi <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Timo</b> <br /><small>Member # 245</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2000,1,25,4,56,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">February 25, 2000</span> <span class="timeformat-0">04:56 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Oh, and BTW: is that thing on the upper right corner the cryosatellite from "The Neutral Zone", or perhaps the Talarian ship from "Suddenly Human"? The cruciform shape doesn't seem very Starfleet-like. And there is a very slight orange tint to it that might hint at the Talarian ship...<P>Timo Saloniemi <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>AndrewR</b> <br /><small>Member # 44</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2000,1,25,8,32,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">February 25, 2000</span> <span class="timeformat-0">08:32 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Timo - yeah - I forgot to mention that one - I was going to say the SS Birdseye/Relaystation 47?? but yeah - probably the Talarian ship - since the 'horizontal' sections seem to angle down - where as the Birdseye/Relaystation is horizontal is it not?<P>Andrew<P>------------------<BR>"What a wonderful and amazing scheme have we here of the magnificent vastness of the Universe! So many Suns, so many Earths...!" - Christian Huygens, <I>New Conjectures Concerning the Planetary Worlds, Their Inhabitants and Productions</I> (<I>ca</I> 1670)<P> <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Austin Powers</b> <br /><small>Member # 250</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2000,1,25,11,15,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">February 25, 2000</span> <span class="timeformat-0">11:15 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> I remember someone saying in a book (can't remember which one) that the ships in the Wolf359 graveyard scene were mixted together from study models and models of the Enterprise that didn't come out of the mold quite right. <BR>Actually, the supposed Tolstoy seems to me to be one of those "disfigured" Ent-D models. What do you think?<P>------------------<BR>groovy baby!<P> <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>TSN</b> <br /><small>Member # 31</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2000,1,25,11,42,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">February 25, 2000</span> <span class="timeformat-0">11:42 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> The W359 ships were just built out of regular plastic models like they sell in the store. They "battle damage" was added by actually burning the ships. (Of course, not all the ships were built of <I>Galaxy</I> parts; this just refers to those that were. Some were study models left over from pre-ST3, etc.)<P>If you really want to know about the W359 ships, we've been having a bit of a discussion for a while about it. Look for the seven-page-long thread about W359 in this Forum... :-)<P>------------------<BR>Jay Leno: "In the story of 'Jack and the Beanstalk', what did the goose lay?"<BR>"Bosco": "Everybody."<BR>-<I>The Tonight Show</I>, "Jaywalking"<p>[This message has been edited by TSN (edited February 25, 2000).] <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>kiltedbear</b> <br /><small>Member # 1138</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2000,2,4,21,56,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">March 04, 2000</span> <span class="timeformat-0">09:56 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> I was reading LUG's The Price of Freedom: The UFP sourcebook and I came across a little tidbit of information that I thought I would share with you: In the section on Starfleet vessels they mention a class of Explorers called the Ascendant-class. Supposedly, the first ships of this class were commissioned five years after the maiden voyage of the USS Galaxy. It is also supposed that this class of ships is an intermediate step between the Galaxy and Sovereign classes. Any thoughts on this?<BR><P>------------------<BR>I do what the voices in my head tell me to do <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Fabrux</b> <br /><small>Member # 71</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2000,2,4,22,43,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">March 04, 2000</span> <span class="timeformat-0">10:43 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Phew. Good thing I got here before anyone else...<P>You see, 99% of the people here abhor anything not seen on screen. I, however, am one of the One Percenters who do not. I think the idea of an intermediate between the Galaxy and Sovereign classes. Sadly The Price of Freedom sourcebook doesn't mention much about it...<P>------------------<BR>"<I>Yes. I have seventeen brains! And eleven legs. And a pecan.</I>"<BR>-Frank Gerratana, March 3, 2000<BR> <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>kiltedbear</b> <br /><small>Member # 1138</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2000,2,9,11,47,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">March 09, 2000</span> <span class="timeformat-0">11:47 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> In response to your reply, maybe the two of us could come up with an idea of what this class of ships is supposed to look like. <P>------------------<BR>I do what the voices in my head tell me to do <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Brown_supahero</b> <br /><small>Member # 83</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2000,2,9,14,17,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">March 09, 2000</span> <span class="timeformat-0">02:17 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> word? <br /> </font> </td></tr> </table></td></tr></table> <br /> <br />
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