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Posted by nx001a (Member # 291) on :

After watching the equinox on video. I was wondering does anyone know when the ship was commissioned and when it was lost in the Delta Quadrant?

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Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :

Well, it's loss in the DQ has been debated. However, I'm sure the commissioning date was on the dedication plaque. Whether or not this was seen, I don't know. I never actually saw the episodes... :-)

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Posted by Michael Dracon (Member # 4) on :

Both before Voyager, that's for sure.

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Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :

Boris Scribic once asked this from Mike Okuda, and got the following:

USS Equinox
Starfleet registry NCC-72831
Noble class starship
Launched stardate 47007.1
Utopia Planitia
Sol Sector

That's what Okuda sent to Paramount, anyhow. It's not known if "Noble" was changed to "Nova" at some stage or if the mistake was carried over to the final plaque. I see no reason to think they would have changed the launch date, though.

SD 47007.1 would be a bit over 1.3 years before "Caretaker", or in the early weeks of 2370. Plenty of time for the Equinox to wander to Badlands and be abducted by Caretaker, then wander away before the Voyager arrives in the spring of 2371. This would also predate the (re-)launch of the Defiant, but severely postdate the supposed launch of the cute "Defiant Pathfinder" which is shown in the DS9 Tech Manual to be almost identical to the Nova class.

It is still unknown if USS Nova came first and one Nova class ship was then adapted as the Pathfinder (which sounds likely - testbeds are often adopted from series production vehicles) or if the Pathfinder was built first and USS Nova adapted from that design (which sounds dubious - series production vessels are extremely seldom based on test rigs that were built for some completely different purpose). If the former is true, then the Equinox must be a late member of her class instead of a modern top-of-the-line ship. And I think the episode supports this view as well.

In any case, USS Nova probably wasn't named until after the supposed publishing date of the TNG Tech Manual (possibly in 2366 or something). Otherwise, the Manual would be incorrect in reserving the name Nova for a future explorer-ship project. And we don't want the Manual to be proven wrong, now do we?

Timo Saloniemi

Posted by nx001a (Member # 291) on :

In the Equinox part 1 ensign gilmore says she knew someone that was the same age as ensign wildmans daughter but she says she would be a teenager by now. If we assume she is about 5-6 years old then they been in the delta quadrant for at least 7 years.

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Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :

That would jibe nicely with the dedication plaque stardate, since "Equinox" would probably take place in early 2376. That's six years after the probable launch date. And even though Naomi Wildman "really" is only four or so, she does look sixish at least.

Timo Saloniemi

Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :

So what does the Voy plaque say about HER launch date? Does it place Voyager's launch before or after the Equinox's?

Also here's another little problem: The Equinox has an EMH. In the Utopia Planitia scenes of 'Relativity', the admiral tells Janeway that at that point, they are THINKING of installing that system in the rest of the fleet. This would imply that only Voyager (or maybe the whole Intrepid Class) has the EMH at this point. I know this is another sad continuity error. Errrr!

Equinox IMHO would have had to have arrived in the DQ at least 6 months before Voyager. Otherwise, I think there would be traces of them having had been there that Voy would've picked up. However, Tuvok didn't know of any other missing Starfleet ships early in the series.

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[This message has been edited by Aban Rune (edited March 02, 2000).]

Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :

The Voyager is given the launch date of SD 48038.5, while "Caretaker" begins with SD 48315.6. I don't see a great problem with the Equinox having launched with an EMH aboard a year before the Voyager did - even if EMHs were already distributed on all the Nova and Intrepid class ships by SD 48038, it would still be sensible to say "we're THINKING of equipping the rest of the fleet". How many Novas or Intrepids would there be at that point? Two dozen? Four dozen? Not enough to really matter in a multi-thousand ship fleet.

In addition to the unseen Bradbury, the only ship class that has all NCCs as high or higher than those of the Novas and the Intrepids and is big enough to accommodate an EMH is the Prometheus class - and even that only if we take the dedication plaque over the hull registry. And the Prometheus does have an EMH.

As for Tuvok's claim of there being no missing ships, that must be a misunderstanding. Surely there would be dozens of ships missing at any given time. The Hera for one went missing in "Interface" a couple of years before "Caretaker"; it would be stupid to declare her destroyed when no debris was found. Surely the ship would survive for five years at the very least if she was, say, caught by a subspace vacuole or a spatiotemporal granny knot?

Perhaps Tuvok only considered ships that had disappeared in the Badlands region and weren't confirmed destroyed, while the Equinox in fact was abducted from outside Badlands, or did leave evidence that suggested her utter destruction?

Timo Saloniemi

Posted by Dane Simri (Member # 272) on :

Don't forget that the Sovereigns have EMH's too, if Ent-E is descriptive of the entire class. When was the E launched? I really hope this isn't another continuity error.

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Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :

I'll try to check on the E-E dedication plaque later. for now, I'd like to say that the E-E was probably largely designed before the Defiant, since it shares a close similarity with the Defiant Pathfinder. The development, fine-tuning and building might have taken perhaps eight to ten years. The EMH would have been added at a late stage - including it in the design wouldn't be a major change.

So far, the Sovereigns seem to have just two companion designs, the Nova and the Prometheus (judging by nacelle and pylon shapes and some general hull lines). Where are the other companions (like a Miranda- or Nebula-style ship with low-slung nacelles) hiding? It's a bit strange that the first ships of a new starship family are a humble surveyor and a huge explorer/cruiser/whatnot. It would make more sense to proceed in steps from the Nova to two or three intermediate sizes (perhaps including the Prometheus) before doing the Sovereign.

Timo Saloniemi

Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :

Timo: I too think it is very cool to see the continuity in ship design carried across series. This very rarely seems to happen in the Trek universe. It is obvious that contemporary ships would share tech and design components. I don't think it is necessary that the builders go up in small steps regarding the size of the ships though. If they need to make a new heavy duty explorer, they would create a design influenced by current design trends, certainly, but not dependant on tech already installed in contemp ships. I mean they've already made large bussard collectors and small ones for the various ship designs. They don't necessarily have to design a Sovereign class bussard collector. The would simply use the state of the art ones that would fit the design and house it with in the custom nacelle.

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Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :

Well, even though it wasn't used, the Nebula-ized version of the Sovereign, the Endeavour-type, could still exist...

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Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :

I agree with both of you on this. Expanding on TSN, perhaps there is some hidden linearity to the ship designing process after all, and we just haven't been allowed to look in the right places? The recent Wolf 359 findings suggest that the "Galaxy generation" in fact was the best fleshed-out "generation" of them all - over half a dozen ships sharing actual components, plus several vaguely related engineering choices in others. And even if we forget fanfic, the TOS movie era is pretty meaty as well, with Constitution, Miranda, Sydney and Constellation and the various Phase II studies. Even the Excelsior era has gotten reinforcements with the Curry and the Centaur and the revelation of Wolf 359 study models.

TOS would seem to get the short straw canonically, even if we count the glimpses of Saladin and Ptolemy blueprints in STII. I'm still hoping for a "retro show", despite all the continuity risks.

The introduction of CGI to Trek may spell the end of kitbashing, in good and bad. So it's not sure if the "Sovereign generation" will ever be fleshed out, or if a complete anarchy will emerge instead. "First Contact" suggested anarchy and non-related designs, yet the continued work of Eaves on "Insurrection" and Rick on Voyager promises a family resemblance between modern designs.

Timo Saloniemi

Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :

Well, ships like the Miranda and Nebula weren't really kitbashes, as such. Not in the strictest definition, anyway. They actually had to go to some trouble to create those models. Plus, they considered making the Endeavour for FC, even though it probably would have been CGI. I think we might still get to see some of the good "kitbashing", even w/ CGI. Fotunately, though, it will probably do away w/ the real bashing of kits.

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Posted by bonecrusher on :

I want to bring up the EMH again, how did the Equinox get it when VOyager was the first one to have it installed, that information is from an episode I believe. I know it was already finished when it was put on Voyager it was the first ship to have the complete EMH program installed oh and the Equinox is a year older then Voyager well at least the ammount of time it has been in the Delta Quadrant.

Here is another issue: Did the Aliens provide a new powersource or did it make the ship go faster like Warp 10 or something???

Why hasnt Voyager heard of seen of them in 6 years? I mean come on u wouldnt go on a different course to get to earth!

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Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :

Actually, it's entirely possible. All those jumps that Voyager has made probably weren't perfectly on course. Even a derivation of a few degrees can put them pretty far off a direct course over distances of thousands of light-years. Presumably the Equinox made some sort of jumps, too (since they were as far along as Voyager in only a little more time), but they wouldn't have been the same ones. These jumps could easily (and even probably would) keep them far enough away from each other that they wouldn't know about each other.

Posted by Dat (Member # 302) on :

It was never implicitly said that Voyager was the first ship to get the EMH nor the Intrepid class the first class to get it. It was just said it was a new program that Starfleet was thinking about adding to the rest of the fleet. Meaning, the EMH could have been tested on a few ships and/or classes and that the Equinox just happened to be one of the ships chosen for the test.

And the aliens were not a new source of power. It was just an enhancement of the warp drive.

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Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :

I think TSN has got it regarding two separate courses home. Consider: until the astrometrics lab came on line, Voyager wasn't on the most efficient course home. It's very likely that the Equinox's sensors weren't working perfectly and that they were on a general course back to the Alpha quad.

Think about it: the ship is about as far away from the Sol System as you can get (w/i the Milky Way) and they need to set a a course for the Alpha Quad. Chances are it's going to be a general course and, as has been said, even a difference of a few degrees, combined with a 6 month - year head start would amount to a large distance between the two ships until they met.

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"A gathering of Angels appeared above my head. They sang to me this song of hope, and this is what they said..." -Styx

Aban's Illustration www.thespeakeasy.com/alanfore