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Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :

Apparently, an early version of ST3 suggested that Kruge stole his Bird of Prey from the Romulans. Some people think that, even though this was cut, it's still true, since nothing refutes it.

Actually, a lot refutes it. For one thing, there's the fact that Kruge was killed and Kirk took the ship. How could the Klingons have made more of the ships if the first one they got was taken away?

Okay, you say, so maybe Kruge had sent the plans back to the Empire. Or maybe another Klingon stole another one later. That's possible, except for the fact that the BoP was already well-known as a Klingon ship by the time we saw Kruge's.

What, you don't believe me? Watch ST3. I just did. As soon as the ship decloaks, Sulu yells out "A Klingon Bird of Prey!". How would he know that, if it were a Romulan ship? Also, how would he know (I think it was Sulu again) later that the crew complement of a Klingon BoP was about a dozen?

Obviously, this ship was quite known to Starfleet as Klingon at the time of ST3, so Kruge couldn't have just lifted it off some Romulans. Unless those Romulans had stolen it from the Klingons first, or something...

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Pickhard: "What is our progress, Beta?"
Beta: "Excellent, captain. I require only one more Thunderstone to evolve my Pikachu to level 47."
-from the Sev Trek movie trailer

Posted by Black Knight (Member # 134) on :

There's also the fact that it really, really, really looks Klingon

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Posted by Masao (Member # 232) on :

I think your argument is quite convincing. I can't find any evidence to refute it. However, do you think there is any connection between this BOP and the Romulans? Do you think it was part of the trade that got the D-7s to the Romulans? Or do you think it is just a coincidence that both the TOS Romulan ship and this ship have the same name (as mentioned in another thread)? After all, the F-16 "Fighting Falcon" would probably be translated into both Klingonese and Romulan as the "Fighting Bird of Prey." Also, if it was intended that the BOP was stolen from the Romulans, how come we never saw Romulans using them?

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[This message has been edited by Masao (edited July 25, 2000).]

Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :

...Even though it has the feather pattern that originally was the trademark of Romulan vessels only.

But then again, the current D-7 and K't'inga hulls also sport a faint feather pattern that wasn't visible in the TOS version of D-7 (or in the TAS D-5). Feathers were part of Klingon starship decoration back in the time of "Trouble with the Tribbles" since we see them close up in "Trials and Tibble-ations", and this would predate the first references to a Klingon-Romulan alliance.

Do we really know when Klingons and Romulans first met? This was probably well before TOS, so both sides could have stolen the basic design philosophies from each other, and began building winged starships with more or less pronounced feather patterns, the Romulans creating the early birdship and the Klingons the battlecruiser and the BoP.

Timo Saloniemi

Posted by Michael Dracon (Member # 4) on :

Uhm.. When I compare a 'Klingon' Bird of Prey with a Romulan Warbird or Romulan science ship there are a lot of simularities, especially in the top view.

Also in the 8 movie box, inside the movie box with ST 3 and 4 there is a text explaining that the makers of the 'Klingon' BoP model (in real life) thought about the trade agreement with the Romulans where Klingon D7's and Romulan BoP's (currently known as Klingon BoP's) were traded with eachother.

One last thing: The Klingons could have made their own versions of the Romulan BoP (NOT the TOS version) they got in the trade. The ship was identified as a Klingon BoP after all...

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"I think I speak for everyone here when I say, 'Huh?'."
- Buffy

Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :

Yeah, even though we don't get the dialouge in the movie, I think the design was based around that little fact (i.e. the model makers). In real life - errr - trek universe... I would say that there are many similarities between the STIII BOP and the TOS Rommie BOP... especially when it has its wings folded 'up' I feel its just a more modern version, with warp drive etc. Maybe there is a similar Romulan version of the time and the klingons took the similar design and did a whole 'changing rooms' thing on it to make it look more Klingon...

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"Neil says hi by the way" - Tear In Your Hand, Tori Amos

Posted by Michael Dracon (Member # 4) on :

My point exactly

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"I think I speak for everyone here when I say, 'Huh?'."
- Buffy

Posted by Matrix (Member # 376) on :

Or is it possible that the Klingon BoP is just to counter the lastest version of the Romulan Bop?

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Posted by Michael Dracon (Member # 4) on :

I don't know, but I do remember that it was said somewhere (off screen) that the Klingons got the BoP because it had a cloaking device.

I'm still leaning towards the refitted Romulan BoP (again: not the TOS version) theory.

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"I think I speak for everyone here when I say, 'Huh?'."
- Buffy

Posted by Obese Penguin (Member # 271) on :

The way i see it ... this referance to the BoP being Of Romulan origin was to leave the design "up for grabs" so to say. So that the same model could be reused later as a Romulan ship , therefore freeing up more money in the budget.

The way I translate this into the trek universe is perhaps the BoP design was in fact crafted by the Romulans but for some reason it was not acted on or put on hold , then later during the Klingon - Romulan Alliance , it was picked up by the Klingons and retooled to fit their needs.

I have a question , I've never been exactly sure what year ST 3 takes place in , can anyone shed some light on it for me ?

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[This message has been edited by Dhunter (edited July 25, 2000).]

Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :

I think the Klingons got cloak technology when the Romulans and the Klingons had that brief treaty... whereby the Romulans got more ships, improved warp etc. and the Klingons got Cloaks...

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"Neil says hi by the way" - Tear In Your Hand, Tori Amos

Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :

I still don't think the Klingons and Romulans ever did have a treaty, but no-one ever listens to me... :-)

ST3 supposedly took place in 2285. Of course, there's a line in the movie that suggests it's closer to around 2290. However, it takes place immediately after ST2, which had a line suggesting that it took place around 2281 and another suggesting it was later (I forget what the year of the Romulan ale was...). So, basically, who knows? :-)

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Pickhard: "What is our progress, Beta?"
Beta: "Excellent, captain. I require only one more Thunderstone to evolve my Pikachu to level 47."
-from the Sev Trek movie trailer