Flare Sci-Fi Forums: Possible Explantion for Old Classes

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Posted by Matrix (Member # 376) on :

The possible reason why the Excelsior and Miranda classes are still are in service and some are still building is that why not? If they can perform their jobs well and cheaply then they should still be in service. I think anyway that the Excelsior and Mirandas in capability are totally different from the ones in the 23rd century and even 10 years ago.

Starfleet could update all the hardware on those two ships and still have a good ship. Though the design might be outdated it still can be used. Saying that it is old doesn't mean it should be thrown away. Sure we have seen these ships being blown up left and right in the DS9 battles, but perhaps that is no longer their role? Perhaps it is exploration and surveying, after all the Federation are explorers. Why throw away a ship that is capable of doing just that?

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Posted by Alpha Centauri (Member # 338) on :

Hey, an equal mind! I have never seen any significant trouble with keeping Excelsior and Mirandas in the fleet... Your thoughts are my thoughts!

But those 150+ years old Oberths... I'm sure you can keep a ship in service for more than 100 years, but more than 150 years... Naahhhh.

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Posted by Michael Dracon (Member # 4) on :

Don't forget about better construction material.

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Posted by Matrix (Member # 376) on :

I think that the reason why 150 years old Oberth design is still in serivce is becuase perhaps the design was upgraded similar to the way the Constitution class was. Then Starfleet liked it probably because it had similar scientific equipment like the Constitution but in a smaller and cheaper hull. Now the Oberth could be replaced by the Nova (an idea which I like) becuase the Oberth is horribily undergunned and slow. The Nova is a heavily armed desig than the Oberth. Though her slow warp of Warp 8 could be debated as faster than the Oberths

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Perdict the unperdictable, but how do you unperdict the unperdictable?

Posted by Vacuum robot lady from Spaceballs (Member # 239) on :

In your sig, Matrix, I think you've misspelled 'Predict' each time it is written. It's RE.

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Posted by Matrix (Member # 376) on :

I'm 16 so sue me for spelling it the New Jersey way! Ok I'll fix it.

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Perdict the unperdictable, but how do you unperdict the unperdictable?

Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :

Heh..."Ultra Magnus" & "Matrix"...

But if I remember my history correctly, wasn't Ultra Magnus unable to open the Matrix when he wanted to because (A) it was the wrong time & (B) he wasn't the right person?

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Posted by Aethelwer (Member # 36) on :

Possibly. Ultra Magnus (the character) was just a really lousy leader.

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Posted by Cammodude on :

To be honest I have a REAL hard time accepting that the Oberths are 150 years old. And the Grissoms registry of NCC-638 is, to me, not nearly enough evidence to suggest that the Oberths ARE 150 years old.

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Posted by Vacuum robot lady from Spaceballs (Member # 239) on :

Matrix: I wasn't trying to be anal retentive, but I guess it sounded like it. I'm 16 too, BTW.

Frank: Yeah, but he didn't want to be a leader. He was just a soldier.

Regarding Oberths: I don't see why they couldn't last 150 years. Here, in Saskatechewan, there's very little moisture in the air, so cars do not suffer from the same rust damage as in coastal areas. It's not uncommon to see cars from the 40's in great abundance.

Now, in ST, I'm sure the building materials, in conjunction with new technologies and advances can allow ships to last 150 years.

Granted, they may not be front line explorers, and only used for various little exploration tasks, but a few could still be in service.

Of course, if they still are, why aren't Constitutions?

Posted by nx001a (Member # 291) on :

Oberth class ships were designed for science missions in the 23rd century and even in the 24th century the oberth classes are able to perform their mission. There is no major flaws in the oberth class apart from it being a bit slow and weak defensively. As a result, they were not decommissioned.

Ps. The question is with new metals used to make starships is do they rust when they come in contact with air and if they do rust then a ship surely cannot last 150 years.

Overall i think these ships are still in service because they can perform their original tasks well, or perform new tasks and they are cheap to make or there is nothing better yet to replace them.

PS. Ultra Magnus could not open the matrix because he did not know how.

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Posted by Joshua Bell (Member # 327) on :

Something to keep in mind when estimating how long starships last is that we, in the late 20th/early 21st century, are at a time when technology is advancing perhaps as fast as it ever will.

Throughout most of the ~10,000 years of human civilization, technological progress was at a glacially slow rate. New technology was developed over generations, and spread only as quickly as migrations (fractional miles per year). Only within the last few hundred years has the pace really picked up, and it was really only towards the end of the 19th century that the current pace got started.

The 20th century started with horsedrawn carriages and adding machines, and ended with interplanetary spacecraft and desktop gigahertz computers. Pretty much everyone alive - and certainly everyone on this forum - understandably take this pace of progress for granted. It's been that way our entire lives.

This necessarily colors our view of the future as well. We assume that this rapid pace of progress will or must continue well into the future - just as it did not occur to our distant ancestors that their ways of life change, that they would live as their forefathers did for generations before.

However, this is not necessarily the case. If technological progress continues at the current pace for even another century, we'll probably be unrecognizable as a species. Continued advances in miniaturization (leading to nanotech), computational speed (leading to some form of AI), engineering (quantum-level understanding and design of materials), biology (leading to genetic tailoring and immortality) and neuroscience (leading to "uploading" of minds) will radically change our culture more dramatically than anything we've seen so far.

That may or may not be the case - perhaps there are fundamental limits to engineering (i.e. no nanotech) or computatability (no AI), or biology (no immortality). We don't know yet.

However, we DO know that in the Star Trek universe, technological advances HAVE slowed down. Sure, there were big wars in the 21st and 22nd centuries. But we also see hundreds of species essentially "stuck" at the same technological level. What are the odds that the Dominion and Federation - cultures a galaxy apart - would be at essentially the same level of technology, such that one could not instantly annihilate the other without opposition?

Yes, there is continued development - a new computer core here, new type of shields there, perhaps even experiments with a new warp drive or torpedo technology. But these are incremental changes over the 100+ years we've seen portrayed on Star Trek. The changes between TOS and TNG - a 100 year gap - are the kinds of changes we'd associate with perhaps 25 years of technology (hmmm, I wonder why...), not 100 years at the current pace.

With this in mind, the idea of keeping a starship design around for 100+ years isn't so remarkable.

Posted by Aethelwer (Member # 36) on :

Excellent points about the rate of technology change. The current rate of progress isn't at all normal compared to the past, and most likely the future. We're just at a point where new stuff can be discovered and applied quickly. Besides, we'll probably reach the point where we can do things that we have the knowledge for, but not the resources.

Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :

I think we also come into the area of a Television show that has gone for so long that it has shown the development of a society - you know what I mean. Most books or Movies or TV shows are set in the one time period from here to there... Star Trek is something different where the viewer can witness a society change as much as their own does... As slow as life changes.

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Posted by Matrix (Member # 376) on :

Just one queation though: What's with the Ultra Magnus and Matrix? Is this a book, a movie, or some TV show that I haven't seem?

I just named myself after the movie.

I agree with the fact that Star Trek's universe is a little slow with the technological progress. On the other hand perhaps the technology is so hard to invent at that time it would take that long.

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Predict the unpredictable, but how do you unpredict the unpredictable?

Posted by Saltah'na (Member # 33) on :

Did you watch Transformers: The Movie?

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Posted by nx001a (Member # 291) on :

Yes i did. I still got it on video somewhere.

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Posted by Matrix (Member # 376) on :

No I didn't, in fact I haven't seen a single Transformer movie or series. Does Gundam Wing count?

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Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :

No, no it doesn't... *L*

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Posted by Dax (Member # 191) on :

I've got a copy of the Transformer Movie. Reading this thread inspired me to watch it again - I hadn't watched it for absolutely ages. It's spinny how Leonard Nimoy did the voice for Galvatron. I really loved Transformers when I was young - I first saw the movie back when it played in the cinemas in '86.

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Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :

Slang clarification, please, RE: "spinny".

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Posted by Dax (Member # 191) on :

"Spinny" is not easy to define. I suppose, if I had to place it, I would say it's pretty similar to "intriguing". Anyway, Nimoy's voice was definitely a good choice for the character.

Back to the original topic: I have absolutely no problem with Miranda and Excelsiors still being used. They're both practical designs and it's likely, with current Trek technology refits, that newer Mirandas/Excelsiors are far more advanced than the USS Reliant/Ent-B could ever dream of.

Even so, I'm convinced that they don't build any more brand knew Excels or Marans - they're just keeping the existing leftovers in good running condition. Hence the Excelsior in drydock in "Relativity" - it was getting refit, not built.

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