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Posted by Obese Penguin (Member # 271) on :

Good Afternoon All,

I am currently redoing my website from scratch and I currently am writing some profiles for Dominion Ships.

The First in the series is the Attack Ship or the Jem'Hadar "Bug" as its known in some circles.

First of all i want to get somethings streight , is it true that the ship has a kind of Nueral Control feature so that the ship responds to the thoughts of the Vorta Commander or is this just bunk?

Also I want to know if there is any Canon or fairly agreed upon length for this craft ?

Also is there any canon or agreed upon list of weapons on this craft?

Thanks in advance for any help you can supply.

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The Kiwi Wars are over... The forces of the Kiwi Order have prevailed and the galaxy is now safe for Kiwi Kind!
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Posted by Delta Vega (Member # 283) on :

Well I am not totally sure, but the presance of manual interface's on the bridge seems to kill the Vorta mind control theroy. In the first episode the Vorta were seen, IIRC, they had some "mind powers" but this was dropped in the rest if the episodes and never touched on again....

Weapons? All I know is the phased poloron (sp?) beam.

Length? 68.32 meters is given by the Star Trek: Magazine, but the figures given in the magazine are not always reliable.

Hope this helps.

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Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :

A neural interface for the Vorta? Nothing like it was ever shown onscreen. In fact, what we did see would strongly suggest that there was no such thing. People probably made this up because of the headset the Vorta wear to see the "viewscreen".

As for the length, I believe the DS9TM suggests it is a little less than 70m long. However, it was shown onscreen to be about as wide as the Defiant, which suggests something closer to a 90-95m length. But, then, other scenes suggested other things, so there's really no way to be sure.

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Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :

As for weapons, a jemmie-bug DID fire a quantum torpedo through the Defiant's hull in "Starship Down", IIRC. So torp-launchers are go!

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Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :

Going by visual evidence, JH bugs can fire either whitish beams, or whitish bolts. The bolts were identified as phased polaron weapons when they were used against the Odyssey in "Jem'Hadar", while the beams were not given a formal name. One would suspect the two weapons are just two operating modes of the same weapon - just like a Romulan ship can fire green beams and green bolts, both of which are considered "disruptors" in dialogue.

Torpedoes could be a weapon considered inferior by the Jem'Hadar, or only used on very special occasions like deep within a gas giant's atmosphere (which was the only place where we SAW them used). The Karemma supply the Jem'Hadar with these weapons; perhaps this could ba taken to mean that the weapons are actually low-tech and virtually worthless, something a subject race can be allowed to produce without risk.

In some shots, the JH ships look at least 150m long against Mirandas (the most consistently sized ships available). It appears likely that the 68m size was established in "The Search" against an originally 60m USS Defiant, and the VFX people weren't informed yet at that point that a decision had been made to consider the Defiant 120m (later 170m) long. So the 68m length should be considered just a mistake.

Or then one should assume multiple sizes of the bug. There could also be some correlation between the apparent size of the bug, and the weaponry used (beams or bolts)...

Timo Saloniemi

Posted by Michael Dracon (Member # 4) on :

The original idea behind the 'Bugs' was that they were ships similar in type to the Klingon Bird of Prey, only slightly smaller. A length somewhere around 65-90 meters seems to confirm most on screen references, including with a Runabout.

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- Buffy

Posted by Matrix (Member # 376) on :

I agree that the Big is larger than 68 meters. I thought this figure made the ship way too small. I think the proper size is between 90-120 meters.

The bolts and beams in my opinion are the same. After all we did see the orginal Enterprise do fire bolts and beam phasrs. Torpedoes on the other hand are probably for those kind of missions where you need that type of weapon. I don't think they would use that type of weapon often if they had it as a standard on those ships.

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Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :

Which begs the question why the Jemmie-Battleship (valiant) used nothing BUT torpedoes. Did they not think their biggest military investment in Dominion fleet-history worthy of any better weapons??
And don't say it was 'cause the Valiant always was out of range for beams, it fired torp's even when the Val strafed it's ass.

Point Three: IIRC, in "Starship Down" they used the explosive core of the crashed torpedo in a probe and sent it "back" to the bugs. We all know the result. I don't believe the Dominion considers torpedoes inferior at all, they just didn't happen to use them much. Besides, they'd be the first super-power in the galaxy with that policy.

No wait, the Kazon never used torps either, and look at how succesful their large-scale engagements went (Basics, Pt. I).

�on Flux, "Thanatophobia"

Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :

Well, the Valiant battleship could've been firing polaron bolts....

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Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :

I seem to remember a few lines from "Valiant" that specifically mentioned what sort of weapons the ship was equipped with.

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Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :

Hang on the Kazon did have torps, what about the one that lodged itself in the hull of Voyager?

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Posted by Michael Dracon (Member # 4) on :

The Valiant battleship was definatly shooting torpedos, or they have a very good system that can calculate the possible cource of an escape pod...

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"I think I speak for everyone here when I say, 'Huh?'."
- Buffy

Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :

Sol: We'll I guess that's almost an argument.

AndrewR: The kazon "torpedo" was not a conventional weapon. They used it for breaching enemy ships.

Anyhow, Dhunter, you CAN type down that the bug is at the very least quantum-torpedo "capable".

I hope I didn't irritate anyone, I was just trying to add to the discussion.

�on Flux, "Thanatophobia"

Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :

Perhaps the JH battleship was just enjoying itself when blasting the Valiant to pieces? The torpedo systems might have needed a good shakedown, and using the phased-polaron guns would have finished off the attacker far too soon for an effective testing of the torpedoes...

I'd say that there are probably many generations of JH ships in operation. When we consider the existence of a special "Alpha breed" of JH warriors, and the construction of a dedicated battleship design for Alpha operations, doesn't it seem likely that this is a standard mode of operations for the JH? Each major conflict the JH have to sort out may give rise to a new breed of JH, and a new ship or weapons system, even if these are just minor modifications of existing JH designs or ship or weapon designs.

The task force that took out the Odyssey may have had special "anti-Alpha" weapons available in order to look more intimidating, while the majority of the invasion fleet at first had to settle for the older beam-type phased-polaron weapons. The Alpha breed also became available only gradually, but when it did, it had these bolt-type PP weapons in "One Little Ship". Or then the bolt type is older and the beams were developed for the Alpha invasion after the bolts had proven less capable
than hoped in the Odyssey incident - and the ship in "OLS" was older surplus.

Timo Saloniemi

Posted by Obese Penguin (Member # 271) on :

TSN & Delta Vega : Yeah I suspected the "neural contorl" thingy was just some persons way of explaining the headset control thingy the vorta wears , I also doubt the Founders would give the vorta mind powers , thats probley why they dumbed the idea in later shows.

As for the size I shall list it as 80 to 110 meters or probley somthing inbetween.

Now the weapons is gona be tricky , the way i think of it , the Jem Hadar Bugs operate in differant modes , some are fitted for Torpedos for large fleet engagements and planetary bombing runs , others are equiped with only energy weapons in order to serve as Jem Hadar troop transports.

The Battlecruiser from Valiant is also on my list of to do's , i found a movie of the Battlecruiser scene from valiant at http://www.maximumdefiant.com , i'll look over it on my break , but IIRC it used torpedos to destroy those pods.

Thank you to everyone that posted in this thread , Your all life savers I'll make sure to credit you all on the page :-)

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The Kiwi Wars are over... The forces of the Kiwi Order have prevailed and the galaxy is now safe for Kiwi Kind!
Jupiter Station , Starfleet Research & Development

Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :

What I meant to say, but didn't express very clearly, was that I seem to remember the weapons used in "Valiant" being described in such a way as to make them unique.