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<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="1" width="95%" align="center"> <tr bgcolor="#234c6f"><td> <table border="0" width="100%" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="1"> <tr bgcolor="#234c6f"> <td colspan="2" align="left"> <font size="3" color="#FFFFFF" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>T O P I C ��� R E V I E W</b> </font></td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Toadkiller</b> <br /><small>Member # 425</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2000,9,23,18,41,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">October 23, 2000</span> <span class="timeformat-0">06:41 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Just an attempt to spark some posts, seems kind of slow of late.<P>What classes of ships are left in starfleet, say after the post-war draw downs?<P>Galaxy - still building, maybe?<BR>Sov- still building<BR>Neb - done building?<P>Others - Nova, Defiant....<P>Excelsior, Miranda, heading to the scrap yards...<P>TK <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Malnurtured Snay</b> <br /><small>Member # 411</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2000,9,23,20,17,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">October 23, 2000</span> <span class="timeformat-0">08:17 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> I would say that the older ships -- Ambassador, Miranda, Excelsior -- have been on a "phase-out" program for quite awhile now, a program "accelerated" by the recent Klingon and Dominion Wars. <P>I would venture to guess that Starfleet is throwing most of her resources to constructing new Defiant and Sovereign-Class ships (as well as other newer classes), in order to project the strength one needs to (well, project) after a major War. <BR><P>------------------<BR>You wouldn't understand. It's a Jeep thing. <P> <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Sol System</b> <br /><small>Member # 30</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2000,9,23,21,3,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">October 23, 2000</span> <span class="timeformat-0">09:03 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Personally, I wouldn't make any such definitive statements. I tend to believe most of the ships being constructed now are the newer classes, (including the FC ships). But then, who is to say? It might be better to stick with a tried and true design during wartime.<P>------------------<BR>love's function is to fabricate unknownnness<BR>--<BR>E. E. Cummings<BR>****<BR><A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Aegean/1247/story.html" TARGET=_blank>Read chapter one of "Dirk Tungsten in...The Disappearing Planet"! And party everyday.</A><BR> <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>nx001a</b> <br /><small>Member # 291</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2000,9,24,3,55,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">October 24, 2000</span> <span class="timeformat-0">03:55 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> It also depends on how fast starfleet wants to build up the fleet. Nebula Class and Akira Class ships would take less resources and time to build than a sovereign and galaxy class ship.<P>------------------<BR>"We set sail on this new sea because their is new knowledge to be gained and new rights to be won" John F Kennedy<P> <A HREF="http://members.aol.com/mfwan/index.htm" TARGET=_blank>members.aol.com/mfwan/index.htm</A> <P><BR> <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Timo</b> <br /><small>Member # 245</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2000,9,24,6,19,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">October 24, 2000</span> <span class="timeformat-0">06:19 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> I'd like to pretend that the Mirandas were already phased out, and were only reintroduced to Starfleet service because of the initiative of some commanders who saw the benefit of quantity over quality. <P>AFAIK, there is no evidence of "original" Mirandas in the Dominion war - only of ships with those extra impulse engines instead of aft torp tubes. Perhaps only ships so modified were accepted to service? It would be a big problem if some ships in a fleet were significantly slower than others, so an engine refit would be the most acute refit imaginable. Weapons and shields would be secondary, as long as the ship could be made to move with the fleet and fire a couple of shots, or at least draw some enemy fire.<P>Even if older ships were artificially kept in service during the war, massive re-retirement programs might now be underway. It depends on what Starfleet needs and what it can afford. The Defiants are small enough to be built on an as-needed basis, but the Sovereign production must have much more inertia, and cannot be scaled up or down as easily.<P>Finally, how will Starfleet REALLY look like when we next see it? All these older Excelsior and Mirandas are CGI'd already, so they will keep on appearing unless somebody at Paramount tells the VFX folks to deliberately "modernize" the fleet. It seems unlikely that anybody would pay such attention, unless the next show or movie is specifically situated in "the future", well past the late 2370s.<P>Timo Saloniemi <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Matrix</b> <br /><small>Member # 376</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2000,9,24,18,30,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">October 24, 2000</span> <span class="timeformat-0">06:30 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> I would say that all the ships that was built in the 23rd century would be phased out. The simple reason why is that when you are trying to look like building up a fleet lets say keep the fleet down to 5,000 ships. I would put in more modern ships to replace those older ones. Post-War estimates could be:<P>Sovereign class (as a battleship type)<BR>Galaxy class (as a flagship type)<BR>Nebula class (exploratory type)<BR>Akira class (patrol ship)<BR>Defiant class (patrol ship to replace the Miranda class)<BR>Nova class (science ship to replace the Oberth class)<P><P>------------------<BR>Predict the unpredictable, but how do you unpredict the unpredictable?<P><BR> <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Sol System</b> <br /><small>Member # 30</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2000,9,24,22,41,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">October 24, 2000</span> <span class="timeformat-0">10:41 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> I still don't think those are impulse engines. <IMG SRC="http://flare.solareclipse.net/smile.gif"><P>------------------<BR>love's function is to fabricate unknownnness<BR>--<BR>E. E. Cummings<BR>****<BR><A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Aegean/1247/story.html" TARGET=_blank>Read chapter one of "Dirk Tungsten in...The Disappearing Planet"! And party everyday.</A><BR> <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Harry</b> <br /><small>Member # 265</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2000,9,25,13,33,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">October 25, 2000</span> <span class="timeformat-0">01:33 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Ahh, another opportunity to show off my Miranda-Akira theory...<P>Miranda's are being replaced by Akiras! They share the same basic design features, but the Akira is of course much better equipped and up-to-date.<P>The Galaxies are probably still being built, since I think they are still one of the most advanced ships of the fleet, especially the Generations- or Venture-refits.<BR>Don't know about the other Galaxy Family membersm though. Nebula maybe, Niagara probably not, Springfield?, Rigel?, New Orleans probably not, Freedom probably not.<P>The Mirandas, Excelsiors, Ambassadors are definately not in production and will soon leave active service.<P>The Sovereign is sort of a "Starfleet Limited Edition" class. I don't think SF built many of them, maybe 5/6 (Like Rodenberry pictured the Galaxy in the beginning of TNG)<P>Defs are still in production, as are Novas and the FCers.<P>------------------<BR>"Dynamics is like playing hockey with a flexible hockey stick"<BR>-My Physics teacher<BR>---<BR><A HREF="http://fleetyard.virtualave.net" TARGET=_blank>Titan Fleet Yards - Harry Doddema's Star Trek Site</A><P><BR> <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Toadkiller</b> <br /><small>Member # 425</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2000,9,25,13,39,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">October 25, 2000</span> <span class="timeformat-0">01:39 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> I'd think the Sovereign was replacing the Excelsior class, and being built in similar numbers.<P>TK <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>AndrewR</b> <br /><small>Member # 44</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2000,9,25,13,40,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">October 25, 2000</span> <span class="timeformat-0">01:40 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> How about Sabres as the Miranda replacements...<P>Actually my theory is that after the success of the Defiant coming out of mothballs - a similar test was done on some of the 'other' weapons that Starfleet had to battle the Borg - and they pulled out the Sabre. Cause its a little bigger - and I guess the original design crew wasn't around like Sisko was for the Deffie - it took a little longer for them to get the Bugs ironed out - thus the later NCC registry.<P>Andrew<P>------------------<BR>"I threw bitter tears at the ocean<BR> But all that came back was the tide..." 'I Will Not Forget You' Sarah McLachlan <BR> <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Starship Freak</b> <br /><small>Member # 293</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2000,9,26,2,53,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">October 26, 2000</span> <span class="timeformat-0">02:53 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> The Sabre has always been a favourite of mine. It looks so tough, almost like a *gasp* warship!<P>------------------<BR>"The Starships of the Federation are the physical, tangible manifestations of Humanity�s stubborn insistence that life does indeed mean something."<BR> Spock to Leonard McCoy in "Final Frontier"<P><BR> <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Nim</b> <br /><small>Member # 205</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2000,9,26,4,20,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">October 26, 2000</span> <span class="timeformat-0">04:20 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> AndrewR: Sisko sure ironed out those bugs... The 'Jemmie' ones! <IMG SRC="http://flare.solareclipse.net/smile.gif"><P>------------------<BR>So, how's that Survivor-contest coming along, Newt?<BR>-Well not very well at the MOMENT, everyone seems to have died.<BR>-Gee, that's bad. Those Aliens bugging you yet?<BR>-Not really, they mostly come at night mostly... <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>AndrewR</b> <br /><small>Member # 44</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2000,9,26,5,32,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">October 26, 2000</span> <span class="timeformat-0">05:32 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> LOL!<P> <IMG SRC="http://flare.solareclipse.net/smile.gif"><P>------------------<BR>"I threw bitter tears at the ocean<BR> But all that came back was the tide..." 'I Will Not Forget You' Sarah McLachlan <BR> <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>bear</b> <br /><small>Member # 124</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2000,9,26,12,47,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">October 26, 2000</span> <span class="timeformat-0">12:47 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> I personally don't want them to limit the kinds of ships seen. I wouldn't be upset to see a constitution mixing it up a bit. As for what should be built, I would imagine that a fleet of thousands of ships would need to maintained, and that any thing else is strictly a replacement. Sort of licking your wound as apposed to flat out reorganizing the fleet. As for the Defiant, I always assumed that there would be no peace time justification for continuing construction. While I am not real found of the intrepid class, this is typical of a peace time ship.<P>------------------<BR> <A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Stargate/9268/index.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Stargate/9268/index.html</A> <P> <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>RAMA</b> <br /><small>Member # 380</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2000,9,26,15,9,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">October 26, 2000</span> <span class="timeformat-0">03:09 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> After every major war there is normally either disarmament or re-evaluation. In this case, with multiple threats still extant, I would say that Starfleet will re-evaluate and probably do the following:'<P>1. Increase R&D into special weapons, and counter-defence weapons. Examples would include energy dampening equipment, such as those employed by the Breen. <P>2. Phase out older ships and re-equip with modern designs, such as Akira's for Mirandas. Rearming all the older classes would be impractical.<P>3. Most importantly, they need to construct and test a much larger and more powerful ship that can compete one on one with Dominion battleships and the Romulan Warbird, and complement the Sovereign. <P>RAMA<P>------------------<BR>Recession repression regression<BR>Shifts of scenery<BR>And warning tremors of landslides<BR>The sun comes down<BR>The mountains move aside<BR>Your kingdom slips out of your hands<BR> <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>AndrewR</b> <br /><small>Member # 44</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2000,9,27,1,59,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">October 27, 2000</span> <span class="timeformat-0">01:59 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> RAMA! How's things... long time; no see... how is Trekweb??<P>AndrewR<P>------------------<BR>"I threw bitter tears at the ocean<BR> But all that came back was the tide..." 'I Will Not Forget You' Sarah McLachlan <BR> <br /> </font> </td></tr> </table></td></tr></table> <br /> <br />
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