Flare Sci-Fi Forums: Excelsior and Enterprise-B shuttle bays?

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Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :

I just bought Sketchbook: The Movies, wich show a detailed Enterprise-B MSD.

But, the aft thingy I assumed was a shuttle bay, is actually a cargo bay, and there are no doors in either of the saucer extensions, i.e. they're all impulse engines.

The side view depicts the main shuttle bays to be in the Excelsior-refit extensions, while the top view says their impulse engines again!

Also, where, if not in the aft structure, is the shuttle bay on the original Excelsior?

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To know a thing well, know its limits. Only when pushed beyond its tolerances will true nature be seen.
The Amtal Rule (Dune)
---
Titan Fleet Yards - Harry Doddema's Star Trek Site

Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :

There's a shuttle bay on the nevtral side of the engineering section. It's that big open hole in her butt.

The saucer extensions are clearly shown to be impulse engines in Generations. They're glowing red.

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"You don't tug on Superman's cape.
You don't spit into the wind.
You don't pull the mask off the ole' Lone Ranger
And you don't mess around with Jim."
Aban's Illustration www.alanfore.com

Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :

I'd take that MSD with a pinch of salt if I were you. It has several inconsistancies. For one thing the aft shuttle bay is not depicted and the deflector array is in the wrong place too.

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We attack tommorow, under cover of daylight!

Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :

I think Adam Heinbuch did a corrected version. . . lemme see if I've got it anywhere.

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"Businesses used to be like Christianity; if you were faithful and obedient, you could obtain bliss in the afterlife of retirement. Now it's more of a reincarnation model. If the worker learns enough in his current job, he can progress to a higher level of employment elsewhere."

- Dogbert

Posted by The359 (Member # 37) on :

I know someone fixed it, because I used the fixed version, cut it up, and reformed it into a cutaway of my Coral Sea Class

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"No, 3 & 6 are mandatory, so you only have to do them if you want"

Alex, fellow classmate, trying to explain an assignment (2/2/01)

Posted by Spike (Member # 322) on :

Prakesh, can you make a scann of it?

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"Second star to the right, and then straight on till morning."

Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :

Found it. . . someone tell me how to use that blasted Flare Upload thingy?

- Dogbert

Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :

Are you talking about this?
http://flareupload.hypermart.net/psupload.htm

It practically explains itself. Press the "Browse" button on either of the two slots. Choose the picture from your HD and then press "upload". You will then see the index of uploads, from which you can copy the url and insert here.

What I don't know is how to delete your uploaded files if you aren't allowed to upload as many pictures as you want.

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Here lies a toppled god,
His fall was not a small one.
We did but build his pedestal,
A narrow and a tall one.

-Tleilaxu Epigram

Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :

Gotcha. I shrunk the file to half its size, it was just too large, and you get the idea from this anyway. Remember this image 'belongs' to Adam, so be sure to ask him before using it anywhere. . .

http://flareupload.hypermart.net/files/1701b.jpg

- Dogbert

Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :

The original was 2048x1024? *slurp*

According to this, the aft torpedo-launchers are positioned directly above the main shuttlebay, in the curved surface. I always thought they were installed in the tail, were that schematic puts the aft tractor-beam emitter... Is this correct?

------------------
Here lies a toppled god,
His fall was not a small one.
We did but build his pedestal,
A narrow and a tall one.

-Tleilaxu Epigram

Posted by Starbuck (Member # 153) on :

Email the MSD to me and I'll host it

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"Replicate some marmalade, Commander - helm control is toast!"

Posted by The Vorlon (Member # 52) on :

I could certainly put it up again somewhere if you guys wanted to see it again... Actually, I should get my master PNG version and make a few more touch-ups... =]

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Sheridan: "Well, as answers go, short, to the point, utterly useless and totally consistant with what I've come to expect from a Vorlon..."
Kosh: "Good."
Sheridan: "I REALLY hate it when you do that..."
Kosh: "Good."

SapphireEclipse Productions
http://sapphireeclipse.3dworlds.org

Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :

I kid you not. Maybe I'll post it - it's 700 Kb+ - if everyone cringes enough. 8)

- Dogbert

Posted by Ritten (Member # 417) on :

make a link to it....

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"One's ethics are determined by what we do when no one is looking" Nugget
Star Trek: Gamma Quadrant
Star Trek: Legacy
Read them, rate them, got money, film them

"...and I remain on the far side of crazy, I remain the mortal enemy of man, no hundred dollar cure will save me..." WoV

Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :

The ventral aft cavity is something of an anomaly. In most of the physical or CGI models, it's stuffed full of greeblings that do not convince me of representing a shuttlebay. I'm not sure these greeblings were there in ST3 yet, though.

In ST6, the cavity seems sealed with a blue-glowing forcefield, suggesting that at least NCC-2000 might have had a shuttlebay down there - but in that case we could take the saucer extra impulse engines to be shuttlebays as well, since they, too, are "sealed with glowing fields" - red ones in this case.

But since there are no obvious features in the models for the aft shuttlebay, or the aft torpedo launchers, I think the best way to go is do as Adam did - "install" them where they most plausibly would go. I prefer the cylindrar things under the stern as the aft torpedo tubes, but the aft cavity is another plausible location.

Timo Saloniemi

Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :

Well, the tail-section would be favorable, as the lower cavity is unable to fire on an enemy diving on the ship from behind.
Of course, the same could be said for the Voyager's aft launchers not covering the lower axis...
Another "of course", this wouldn't be a problem if the fighting ships, with 200000 kilometers between them, would actually be DEPICTED with that distance between them.

------------------
Here lies a toppled god,
His fall was not a small one.
We did but build his pedestal,
A narrow and a tall one.

-Tleilaxu Epigram

Posted by Austin Powers (Member # 250) on :

Well, I've got the AMT model of the Ent-B and the ventral aft cavity seems to be filled with some sort of sensor equipment stuff on that one.
(Although I know that this might not be the most accurate model around, it's still something to think about.)

Hey great, I finally found a way to upload my files: go to this link: http://flareupload.hypermart.net/files/excels026.jpg

The model is supposed to be the studio model built for Flashback. Here it looks like cargo bay doors, the ST.TMP type IIRC.

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RIMMER [as Ace]: "Stoke me a clipper, I'll be back for Christmas."

[This message has been edited by Austin Powers (edited February 08, 2001).]

Posted by The Vorlon (Member # 52) on :

http://sapphireeclipse.virtualave.net/lakota19.jpg
http://sapphireeclipse.virtualave.net/lakota20.jpg
http://sapphireeclipse.virtualave.net/lakota24.jpg

SapphireEclipse Productions
http://sapphireeclipse.3dworlds.org

Posted by Fabrux (Member # 71) on :

This, of course, begs the question what is that thing in there?

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"Lately I've noticed that everyone seems to trust me. It's really quite unnerving. I'm still trying to get used to it."
- Garak, "Empok Nor"

Posted by The359 (Member # 37) on :

Another ship they were carrying? Some sort of module? Or a super-big-mondo-tractor beam? But, uh, what are the two "doors" above that?

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"No, 3 & 6 are mandatory, so you only have to do them if you want"

Alex, fellow classmate, trying to explain an assignment (2/2/01)

Posted by Michael Dracon (Member # 4) on :

On a side note: Mr. Vorlon, sir? When is your site back online again?

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Max: "And?"
Terry: "I forgot."
Max: "Come on, Clinton was the fun one, then came the boring one."
Terry: "They're all boring."

- Batman Beyond (aka: Batman of the Future)

Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :

Are there any pics of the tail?

------------------
Here lies a toppled god,
His fall was not a small one.
We did but build his pedestal,
A narrow and a tall one.

-Tleilaxu Epigram

Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :

Is anyone going to post the really big version of that schematic of the E-B? I want to make it my windows background.

Andrew

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"This is cooling, faster than I can..." Tori Amos "Cooling"

Posted by The Vorlon (Member # 52) on :

My site won't be back until at least April, school is keeping me too busy to ressurect it from its forced demise... But it will be back, someday.

BIG VERSION.... 800K!
http://sapphireeclipse.virtualave.net/1701b-MSD.jpg

SapphireEclipse Productions
http://sapphireeclipse.3dworlds.org

Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :

*breaks out the champagne*

Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :

Well, that saves me having to do it. 8)

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"I rather strongly disagree, even if I share the love of Dick. Speaking of which, that would be the most embarrasing .sig quote ever, so never use it."

- Simon Sizer, 23/01/2001

Posted by Siegfried (Member # 29) on :

On the subject of the Lakota's open bay, could that thing down there be part of a new weapons system? Remember, O'Brien made the comment in "Paradise Lost" (I believe that was the Lakota's episode) that the phaser systems had been upgraded. Could that thing be some sort of phased power amplifier? Or something similar?

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Nic: She's not a practicing lesbian. We need PRACTICING lesbians!
Me: I have a camcorder.
Nic: But no lesbians.
Me: Ahhh... no.
Nic: DAMN IT MAN! WE NEED LESBIANS! LOTS AND LOTS OF LESBIANS!

ICQ Conversation From January 23, 2001.

Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :

AFAIK, it's part and parcel of every Excelsior out there (with the possible exception of the ST3 prototype, whose ventral cavity we never saw - but by ST6, that very same ship *had* acquired the thingamabob). Even the DS9 CGI ships have a piece of machinery like this in the cavity.

I guess it's something that requires regular swapping, or then en-route space access. Perhaps a system for sowing mines or comm relays. Or a big dropship for planetary assault ops. Or a portable spacedock for deep space repairs - a scaffolding that unfolds to encase the ship and facilitate spacesuited repairs by giving the workers a foothold.

Timo Saloniemi

Posted by Daniel (Member # 453) on :

I'd say it's a fantastic waste of space. About three or four decks worth in my estimation. I agree with the idea that it's some sort of portable starship repair scaffold, but not a large ship. It seems to be directly attached to the roof of that open bay, with those bracing spars running down the sides of it. And what about that hole?

And if that isn't the shuttlebay, where is it? The fantail looks too small and doesn't have evidence of the traditional control room looking aft. The Generations Sketch Book thingy specifically says that the added sections to the primary hull are impulse units. So where do they keep their shuttles?

Posted by Peregrinus (Member # 504) on :

I'm one of those annoying people who will cling to certain beliefs that make mre sense than what finally shows up onscreen (witness the enemies I'm making over in the Wolf 359 thread). I can't accept that the saucer additions are impulse engines. There are three already on the saucer, and the two new ones' exhaust would blast straight into the Bussard ramscoops. Maybe it's intentional. I call it bad designwork if those ARE impulse engines. Besides, when I used an E-B saucer for my Centaur conversion, I realized that in that case, they'd make even MORE sense as shuttlebays, and painted them accordingly, with the red light for illumination (better for one's night vision than the blue floods of the Miranda family). *shrug* but this is Star Trek we're talking about. Who really cares if it makes sense, right?

--Jonah

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"It's obvious I'm dealing with a moron..."

--Col. Edwards, ROBOTECH

Posted by Daniel (Member # 453) on :

THREE? Whoa, am I missing something? Where's the third one? Is it stuck between the more visible two directly aft? And I thought I knew about the Excelsior.

Posted by Daniel (Member # 453) on :

P.S. The only reason it's kinda hard to believe that the additions to the priamry hull are shuttlebays is that neither are marked with the traditional "1" "2" of the period. And how would the doors open? Would they roll right up into the upper hull superstructure? Also, the ... whatever they are ... are illuminated from the inside out, not from external lighting like on the Mirandas. Take a look at some of the shots in the Generations Sketch Book if you have it.

Posted by Peregrinus (Member # 504) on :

Yes it is between the other two, and I know all the problems with those boxes being shuttlebays, but I'm a contrary bastard at times, and this is one of those times. On my model, I've added the '1' and '2' markings, and all is right in the world. ;-)

--Jonah

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"It's obvious I'm dealing with a moron..."

--Col. Edwards, ROBOTECH

Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :

I don't buy the "third exhaust port set between & father in from the noticeable two" theory. It's illogical & just plain stupid.

As for the extra impulse decks/shuttlebays....I've made them shuttlebays on my Juno-class destroyers...but who's to say that on some ships they're impulse decks and on others extra shuttlebays? Variance is a constant in Starfleet.

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"You just push off....and the falling sort of happens on its own." ---Dave Titus

Posted by colin (Member # 217) on :

There is a very revealing scene from Generations. I am unable to scan the image-I don't have a scanner.

When we see the USS Enterprise B from the observation deck of the construction facility, we see a workbee with cargo leaving the neck. The opening on the neck is toward the rear. It is square in shape.

When I saw this scene, I was reminded of a similiar scene in the first movie. In the first Enterprise hangar deck, a workbee with cargo is seen flying over the hangar deck floor.

Linking these two scenes together, I would say that the shuttlebays of an Excelsior Class starship are in the neck. They are protected and invisible from sight. Invisible that is until a shuttlecraft or workbee leaves the neck.

Can someone get a picture of the scene I mentioned from Generations so that all members can discuss this detail of the Excelsior Class? Thank you.

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takeoffs are optional; landings are mandatory

Posted by Spike (Member # 322) on :

Do you mean this scene? http://www.8ung.at/fitz/sonstiges/e-b_workbee.jpg

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"Second star to the right, and then straight on till morning."

Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :

There is no way in hell the added impulse-engines are bays. Sorry.
As for blocked impulse paths, check the Enterprise dreadnought from "AGT", you'll find an interesting thing in front of the third nacelle as well.

I guess they try to leave the impulse engines unobscured most of the time, like with the Prometheus, good job there , but sometimes they don't. In any case, give it up, man.

Hmm, that giant Excelsior-MSD indicates FOUR forward torpedo-bays, pointing out those square doors we see the workbee coming out of...

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Here lies a toppled god,
His fall was not a small one.
We did but build his pedestal,
A narrow and a tall one.

-Tleilaxu Epigram

[This message has been edited by Nimrod (edited February 11, 2001).]