Flare Sci-Fi Forums: The Doctor - Just who is it that is sentient/self-aware??

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Posted by Treknophyle (Member # 509) on :

Any lovers of metaphysical discussions our there?

I was having a debate with a well-known Fiawol, and we began discussing the sentience and self-awareness of the Doctor.

He brought up a very important point. There is no entity known as the Doctor. He is a subset program residing and running in the ship's main computer, except when using his portable holoemitter (which must have one hell of a processor and memory bank).

Anyways, it would seem that the starhip's computer itself is sentient and self-aware, even though said awareness is not of the vessel (using sensors mounted on the exterior and interior of the vessel), but rather of a projection and its surroundings using sensors either mounted about the sickbay bulkheads, or incorporated within the portable holoemitter.

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Posted by Michael Dracon (Member # 4) on :

I think the Doctor is as self-aware as Data.

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Terry: "Carter, Reagan, Bush, Clinton, ...."
Max: "And?"
Terry: "I forgot."
Max: "Come on, Clinton was the fun one, then came the boring one."
Terry: "They're all boring."

- Batman Beyond (aka: Batman of the Future)

Posted by Daniel (Member # 453) on :

Hmmmmm. I don't believe that the computer itself is self aware or sentient, since it is only the subprogram or matrix or whatever that manifests these qualities. When the Doctor uses his holoemitter, his program has been seperated from the main computer. Therefore it is not the computer system as a whole, but the doctor's program that is sentient. I hope you all can follow my reasoning.

Besides, you cannot hold an intelligent conversation with the computer. It does not make self-aware statements using the pronoun "I" or "me". It does not even address crewmembers talking to it as "you." This shows a lack of intelligence and/or sentience. If Starfleet engineers wanted the main computer of starships to be sentient, they could do it easily, by incorporating aspects of a program such as the Doctor's into the system. But obviously they didn't. Since the doctor's program is almost completely independent of the main computer, it is not the computer, but the doctor who is sentient.

That came out a lot more confused and redundant than I wanted it to. Sorry.

Posted by Treknophyle (Member # 509) on :

Yeah but...
It is the HARDWARE of the ship's computer which is running (manifesting) the sentience.

Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :

The boggle is, just how detailed are the behavior parameters? How fine are the seams? Does it matter? Obviously TPTB didn't want to go into just how holograms tick, just that they do.

Actually, we can't say that we're NOT an advanced hardware mimicing the emotions and responses from another race/deity or -ies that made us. The question is, were draw the line for 'authentic' selfawareness?
(I like these waters!)

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Here lies a toppled god,
His fall was not a small one.
We did but build his pedestal,
A narrow and a tall one.

-Tleilaxu Epigram

[This message has been edited by Nimrod (edited February 15, 2001).]

Posted by Daniel (Member # 453) on :

Okay, interesting idea, but then are you saying the holoemitter is sentient? That too is hardware, and running the program, but I think we we would all consider it non-sentient. Also, why would we say the entire computer system is sentient if it does not manifest that in some other fashion than the doctor? The system does not think for itself, but allows crewmembers to think for it, no? If it were left alone, it would not recalibrate the warp core or make any other significant actions to maintain itself or the ship. It waits for human imput and commands.

Posted by Daniel (Member # 453) on :

P.S. Good point, Nimrod. (God, that sounds funny), I'd have to agree with you there. Some scientist do maintain that our brains are just large quantum computers, so in a sense, we are like the Voyager mainframe. A large computer maintaining multiple systems while just a small portion operates the self awarness. I'm not sure, but I might have to flip positions on this.

Posted by Treknophyle (Member # 509) on :

Remember:

The Doctor's physical manifestation is a projection - photons and forcefields. There is no "thinking" taking place within the volume of space represented as his skull - it takes place within the mobile holoemitter - or within the main computer.

Any sensory information he gathers (with the possible exception of tactile, which could be measured by feedback on the forcefield emitters) are not gathered by his eyes/ears/nose, but rather by the sensors in the emitters - even if they use a shunt to gather the data at the points of space represented by those non-functional sensory organs.

And - let's not forget the EMH aboard Prometheus. For my money, he also manifested sentience (fear, courage) - enough that I find myself calling him "he".
Obviously, Starfleet got more than they bargained for from Dr. Zimmerman. He found a way to circumvent any existing parameters which preclude self-aware behavior in starfleet vessel computers. Data used to be a wonder due to his being an artificial lifeform - now any starship can duplicate this achievement.

By the way - scuttling a starship might now be considered murder - unless the sentient sub-program is downloaded.

Posted by Toadkiller (Member # 425) on :

Doesn't it seem the Dr. gained "self aware" status just a tad to easily? The program is designed to mimic a real Dr's bedside manner, etc. - has he actually exceeded that or is the program simply very well written? I'd like to see a scence after they get home where they try to justify not turning the Dr. off - as would most likely be SF's default. Turn him off, store the useful data from an unexpectedly long run-time and upgrade the system to Mark whatever.

Just IMHO but the Dr. has never demostrated the 'human' qualities that Data did, of course neither has Neelix....

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TK

Posted by Treknophyle (Member # 509) on :

What are the classic definitions of "life" again?

- ability to reproduce
(he can do that as easily as a back-up)

- irritability
(god - he's the most alive character on the ship!)

Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :

The Doctor's program can be sentient without requiring the entire computer to be likewise.

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I will shout until they know what I mean.
--
Neutral Milk Hotel
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Read three (three!) chapters of "Dirk Tungsten in...The Disappearing Planet"! Then, go insane!