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<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="1" width="95%" align="center"> <tr bgcolor="#234c6f"><td> <table border="0" width="100%" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="1"> <tr bgcolor="#234c6f"> <td colspan="2" align="left"> <font size="3" color="#FFFFFF" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>T O P I C ��� R E V I E W</b> </font></td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Jim Phelps</b> <br /><small>Member # 102</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,1,20,23,3,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">February 20, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">11:03 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> I just want to start up this thread, and possibly add to it later as I continue rewatching TOS (actually, believe it or not, I'm taping and watching most of it for the first time in English as opposed to German on SCI-FI channel, regardless of the terrible cuts and snips which fortunately seem to extend only to parts of scenes, and not the entire scenes).<P>Anyway, "Day of the Dove" as an individual episode is clearly of the opinion that Engineering is located on Deck 7 or above. First, the alien entity traps 392 out of 430 cremembers in the "lower decks", and we don't see or hear from them for the rest of the episode (which I thought was kinda stupid, it's as if they'd dematerialized, but it's nevertheless essential as a plot point, to balance out Fed and Klingon forces). That leaves us with 38 Feds (number stated in the dialogue, as was 392) and 38 Klingons trapped in what we might call upper decks, part of which is Engineering which is first under Fed, then under Klingon control.<P>Now, exactly what decks are part of this upper portion which forms the battleground? Well, Spock says at the very beginning of the battles that the Klingons are controlling Decks 6 and part of 7 (or was it 7 and part of 6?), while the Feds are controlling those above. This clearly indicates that Engineering is somewhere in this area, otherwise he would've mentioned deck 17 or so in addition, and possibly some other decks below 7. Nope - he only says that decks 7,6 = Klingon, and above = Starfleet. We must suppose that Decks 8 and below are the ones sealed, or that those that are below 7 yet unsealed are not important enough for the Klingons to control. Either way, Engineering can't be down there.<P>Furthermore, even if we were to suppose that Spock for some weird reason chose not to mention that Starfleet was also controlling Deck 17 in addition to those above 6, should we suppose that it just so happened that 91% of the crew was located below deck 17 at the time it was separated from the rest? Nobody said anything about the alien transporting 392 crewmen to decks 17-23. <P>To be fair, after leaving Engineering, the entity appears in an exterior shot somewhere around the deflector dish, pointing to such a location. However, we don't know what route the alien took to get out. Perhaps it had to do something with the trapped cremembers on the lower decks - would it want to free them or something?<P>Boris<P>[This message has been edited by Boris (edited February 20, 2001).]<P>[This message has been edited by Boris (edited February 20, 2001).]<p>[This message has been edited by Boris (edited February 20, 2001).] <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Sol System</b> <br /><small>Member # 30</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,1,20,23,32,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">February 20, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">11:32 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> On the other hand, in more than a few episodes we hear the terms "lower levels" and "engineering decks" tossed about as if they were interchangable. "The Enemy Within" feature evil underlit Kirk running down to the lower levels to hide, where he is finally confronted by good Kirk and Spock on, surprise, the Engineering set.<P>Ultimately, I'm not sure if we can reach anything like a conclusive answer about this. Personally, I'd put engineering down in the secondary hull, because otherwise one starts to wonder why a secondary hull is necessary at all. But I can't point to any one point of evidence and say "here's my proof."<P>------------------<BR>I will shout until they know what I mean.<BR>--<BR>Neutral Milk Hotel<BR>****<BR><A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/simsizer/chapter1.html" TARGET=_blank>Read three (three!) chapters of "Dirk Tungsten in...The Disappearing Planet"! Then, go insane!</A><P><BR> <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Gammera</b> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,1,21,2,4,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">February 21, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">02:04 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> It may be entirly possable that there are no decks really in the neck section, in the original conifg it is very skinny. the lights tend to disagree with this, but it doesnt make sense for anything to be in there other then utility pass throughs, and voids. if ihis is true then deck seven (I think) would fall just about the top of the secondary hull. <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Gammera</b> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,1,21,2,5,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">February 21, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">02:05 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> It may be entirly possable that there are no decks really in the neck section, in the original conifg it is very skinny. the lights tend to disagree with this, but it doesnt make sense for anything to be in there other then utility pass throughs, and voids. if ihis is true then deck seven (I think) would fall just about the top of the secondary hull. <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Jim Phelps</b> <br /><small>Member # 102</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,1,21,10,50,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">February 21, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">10:50 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Gammera: unfortunately, that is impossible because of the fact that the ship has at least 21 decks, as per "Trials and Tribble-ations" and countless other blueprints and schematics. You can't fit decks 7-21 in the secondary hull.<P>Sol: I agree completely that we can't judge the location on the basis of just one episode. Neither can we automatically assume that "lower decks" = secondary hull decks. "Day of the Dove" gives us a saucer-location; let's see what the other eps say.<P>Boris <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Matrix</b> <br /><small>Member # 376</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,1,21,18,20,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">February 21, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">06:20 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> I'd say that the engineerig room is a shapeshifter that Capt. Kirk found on planet Seti Omega 15. She now serves to the Capt. when ever they need a engineering room.<P>------------------<BR>Predict the unpredictable, but how do you unpredict the unpredictable?<P><BR> <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Tech Sergeant Chen</b> <br /><small>Member # 350</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,1,21,18,43,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">February 21, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">06:43 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> I remember seeing the Scipubtech cutaway poster which put it below and ahead of the engine pylons. That's even worse because there's no room for the Emergency Manual Monitor room that we saw in several episodes, including Mirror, Mirror, By Any Other Name and Is There In Truth No Beauty.<P>------------------<BR>Never give up. Never surrender. <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>colin</b> <br /><small>Member # 217</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,1,22,2,47,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">February 22, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">02:47 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Location of engineering<BR>"Corbomite Manuever"-Deck 5. Mentioned by Lt. Bailey in war simulation.<BR>"Court Martial"-Deck B, with sections from, I believe, J to Y.<BR>"The Doomsday Machine"-Deck 7. Location of main energizers. (Also, I believe that Auxiliary Control is said to be on Deck 7 in a later show. This contradicts the information in "The Doomsday Machine" which indicates that engineering is below Deck 7. This indication is done when Scotty and his team take a ladder to the engine room.)<P>To complicate matters, the aft turbolift is seen starting at the rear aft of the saucer. This might place the turbolift in the location of the engine room, if placed on Deck 7.<P>The problem of location for rooms is not limited to the engine room.<P>Kirk's room is located on Deck 12, somewhere in the neck, and on Deck 5.<P>The brig is located on Deck 2 and the turbolift takes a remarkable time to reach one deck below the bridge. ("The Enterprise Incident")<P>And to add to this list, there are numerous other problems about the first lead ship. Think the shuttlebay. Consider the evidence in "The Conscience of the King" and "Galileo Seven". Think the ladder in "The Naked Time", on deck 2. And so on. <P>------------------<BR><BR>takeoffs are optional; landings are mandatory <br /> </font> </td></tr> </table></td></tr></table> <br /> <br />
© 1999-2024 Charles Capps
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