I was just wondering is there a difference between the Defiant and Sabre Class?
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
They...uh...look different. They're named differently. A Defiant Class starred in a television series for a few seasons.
I take it you mean differences in mission type and what not. Well, since we know virtually nothing about the Saber Class, it's hard to say. I never got the impression it was that bad-ass of a ship. The Defiant seemed to be a departure from the norm when it was new, but the Saber Class might be newer than the Defiant. So it could also be some kind of small, fast, gunship. But who knows...
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
I reckon that the Sabre Class is one of the other 'weapons' that were created to battle the Borg - as mentioned by Shelby in BOBW and Sisko in Emissary - no they didn't say exactly what they were - but we did see one - that was the Defiant. Why not the Sabre?
Posted by TheF0rce (Member # 533) on :
ok, the Sabre and Norway are new ships right? unlike the Akira and Streamrunner which seems[going by registry] to be ships older than galaxy classes?
[ September 05, 2001: Message edited by: TheF0rce ]
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
Steamrunners apparently had registries in the 50K range, and the Akiras and Norways are in the 60K range. The Sabre is also supposed to be 60K, but an apparent mislabeling of at least one picture has it in the 80K range. Make of that what you will; the last "new" ship we knew of was the USS Sao Paulo, at NCC-75633. Asssuming she was fresh from the yards (as her ded. plaque seemed to indicate, IIRC), the Sabre is erroneous and is really in the 60K range.
Mark
Posted by MeGotBeer (Member # 411) on :
One looks cool ... one looks ugly. There ya' go.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
According to the fact files the Saber-Class is a battle cruiser that was developed to fight the borg after wolf 359. The NCC-6XXXX reg makes this unlikey, however it is possible that the entire Saber-class was refitted from what ever function it filled before to the fast and manuverable battle cruiser that was seen in ST:FC and DS9 in responce to the Borg threat.
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
Registries aren't chronological... Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
...That's my story and I'm stickin' to it! Posted by Veers (Member # 661) on :
It's about time Starfleet racked out ships with registries beginning with 8 and 9. Right now it's 7, 7, 7... Look at the Rhode Island! It's from 2404 or thereabouts, and still has a 7 number! And the Challenger appeared in 2400, with regisrty 71099 or something.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
The real life reason for that is that Okuda (or Sternbach, whoever started it), got a perverse pleasure out of making the registry numbers variations on "747". Tsk. Dragonball fans have their vegetable puns. We get Bukaroo Bonzai and HILARIOUS NUMBERS.
Anyway.
NX-74205
We have 7 and 4. For the "205", and two and five together, and bingo! Seven.
NCC-74656
7 and 4 again. "656" = 6 - 5 + 6 = 7.
What fun maths is. I am laughing now.
Posted by Veers (Member # 661) on :
Haw haw haw! The Saber probably was intended to serve as an escort like the Defiant, and also to fight the Borg. Same as the Norway-class, except we've seen the Saber going on to bigger and better things (Dominion War), while the Norway will remain in FC forever.
Posted by Siegfried (Member # 29) on :
Now, now, now. The Norway is not simply going to remain in First Contact forever. It kinda sorta made an appearance in an episode of Voyager (as a silhouette on a ship chart). I just can't remember the episode name, it had Chakotay going undercover to learn about a Species 8472 plot to invade Starfleet Command and Earth and the local Taco Bell.
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
That doesn't mean that the CGI model of the ship would even exist any more. Only the Encyclopedia images are preserved for all eternity...
Regarding the Saber, most scaling cues indicate a ship far bigger than mere Defiant size. The portholes or the lifeboats could be taken to be of Galaxy size, or a deck count made and 3.5m deck height assumed, all giving a ship slightly bigger than a Constitution. Or the teeny weeny bridge bulge could be chosen to be of a minimum size that could actually hold a meaningful number of people inside, making the ship almost Excelsior-sized.
In any case, 170 meters makes for a very funny Saber, with shuttlebays barely capable of taking a type 15 economy-size shuttlepod.
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by nx001a (Member # 291) on :
I always assumed that the sabre was a new ship and similar in size to the defiant but was not meant to fight the borg.
[ September 06, 2001: Message edited by: nx001a ]
Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
When the Borg attack, ALL ships are meant to fight the Borg. Although I wouldn't want to have been the captain of the Bonestellat Wolf 359. Two phaser banks on my science ship because the Oberth model is what was laying around Paramount's lot that day
On the registries, I like the Naval Construction Contract explanation. The ships are number based on the order in which the Fedration council allocates the funds (or whatever they use for money, because they dont have money but they do have money sometimes) to build them. It's story time... For example, lets say it is the 2340s or 50s. The council says, 'lets plan to build 1000 starships.' So they make out the contracts for 59000 through 60000 and assign them names. Some ships, like the Ambassador-class USS YouessessNCC-59501 are built within a year because they already have the design down pat, having built them for a decade or three. But the USS PrometheusNCC-59650 is a new design, which they dont even have a shape for yet. So Dr. Banzai draws some sketches, submits them, they get rejected so he gets mad and makes some more with an impossible configuration. He goes on sabbatical to Risa for a few years while the council studies the feasibility of making a multi-vector attack ship. Dr. Banzai dies of jamaharon and the project is put on hold. A new Prometheus is built in 2360, and destroyed by tribbles in the Gamma Quadrant in 2370. Finally construction begins on this new class, and in 2374 the starship USS PrometheusNCC-59650 is built. But evryone gets mad because it's registry number doesnt match! So the Federation council lets it get captured by Romulans to quell the protests on the homeworlds. Ah, politics....
So even though some Sabres have 8xxxx registries, Starfleet isnt going to be mass producing the contracts that begin with that until they move out all the paperwork on the 7xxxx vessels
That's my story..
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
The sabers do not have 8XXXX range registeries, that is a mistake in the encyclopedia. There is an image of the actual CG model and it's registery is clearly in the 6XXXX range.
Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
Ok.. but i still wanted to make that point about how registries work...
Posted by Veers (Member # 661) on :
The Norway was also seen on a chart in "Favor the Bold." This chart is seen near the DS9 TM's beginning.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
"Two phaser banks on my science ship because the Oberth model is what was laying around Paramount's lot that day."
Not to be picky, but, er, I didn't think that the Oberth model had any phaser banks on it anywhere. Have we ever seen one fire?
Posted by Stingray (Member # 621) on :
No phaser banks anywhere? In the 24th century? I think conjecturing they had a couple i not too far out of line.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
quote: I didn't think that the Oberth model had any phaser banks on it anywhere. Have we ever seen one fire
Yes we have, there is one in the STFC battle that fires from the front of the sauser. it comes round the left side of the cube just as an Akira explodes in the foreground....as I recall.
Posted by Woodside Kid (Member # 699) on :
CaptainMike:
I, too, prefer the Naval Construction Contract theory, but unfortunately it still doesn't explain why ships in the same class would have wildly divergent numbers if the class has just been proposed. I'll grant you that, for example, if the fleet decided it needed some replacement Excelsiors in the mid 24th century, they would have much higher registries than the initial production run.
However, this still leaves us with a registration scheme that largely makes no sense. Let's be realistic. Whatever part of the Federation government that oversees fleet funding isn't going to wake up one morning and say "OK, today we're going to buy two Galaxys, three Nebulas, a Defiant and five Danubes." From an economic and logistical standpoint, that would be madness. Starship production runs would be allocated in single blocks, and so should their registry numbers. Given the way starships are numbered currently, unless they pick the numbers by throwing darts at a wall chart, I can't figure out the logic of the system.
We'd all be better off if TPTB hadn't tried to assign Constitution-class membership to the ships on the wall chart in "Court-Martial".
Posted by Fedaykin Supastar (Member # 704) on :
Ooh important question: since there is no 'money' how are ships acquired/ordered?? If no canon explanation, fan (rational) theories perhaps?
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
They are built. There is no money, but there are still resources. Since replicatores can't build ships for very convenient reasons, they have to get the parts, supplies, etc. And they are a limited resource.
Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
In the future, sex is used as currency. This is not much different than the present.
Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
I think starships ARE ordered in blocks, but sometimes these things crop up. It might be a political whim.. because we DO know politics of the Federation suck even in the 24th century.. Maybe they were building a block of Prometheus class in the 2350s, but the people staged a protest because a religious group in Canberra thought four warp nacelles was wrong, Jaresh Inyo bowed to concerns and decided to cancel the series, or even reassign the names and numbers to a different class. That would explain our Melbourne problem too.. a subcommittee examining the feasibility of defending sector 004 decided they wanted an Excelsior because of its maneuverability, so a Nebula class construction was cancelled and resources (assigned to that number) were rediverted to build a new Melbourne in the 2350s.
It definitely would be easier if they had listened to Franz Joseph instead of Greg Jein (the progenitor of the Constitution 956 through 1831 numbers from the Commodore's wall). But they didnt
I'm not saying they only order a few at a time. the only thing we do know is that the registries are roughly sequential, but not completely, so starships are not ordered in blocks or built at the same speed. But what dont you think my explanation explains?
[ September 10, 2001: Message edited by: CaptainMike ]
