conspiracies are all over the place Possibly inertial dampeners were developed in the Third World War to allow fighter pilots to fly their machines a bit faster. Or they are part of the Chronowerx cop-out.
But let's not go there.
1) The Admiral in "Dr. Bashir, I Presume" gave a time of "200 years ago" for the Eugenics wars, which would have put it in the 22nd century, not the 20th.
2) "Future's End" which took place in the 90's showed no evidence that the Eugenics Wars were going on, or had recently gone on. However, there is a model of a sleeper ship on Rain Robinson's window sill, so those ships obviously exist in the 90's of the Star Trek universe, or are at least being developed.
The theory is that Starling's meddling pushed the Eugenics Wars back a little while, I think.
haha LMAO
conspiracies are all over the place
[ September 10, 2001: Message edited by: Fedaykin Supastar ]
I also think that TPTB are likely to avoid ever directly saying again that the Eugenic wars occured in the 90s. They'll either fudge the date, or stick it in the early 21st century.
But we don't know.
Sorry...this is just too easy...
Obviously we live in an alternate universe.
Has anyone ever read 'Visit to a Strange Planet' or 'Visit to a Strange Planet Revisited' At least I think thats what they were called. The were in compilations in the 70s and dealt with Kirk, Spock and McCoy materializing in 1960s Hollywood on the Star Trek sets and trying to cope with the fact that their lives were a TV show, and the sequel involved Bill Shatner, Leo Nimoy and De Kelley arriving on the real Enterprise while shooting a scene in the transporter room, and saving the ship from a Klingon plot by pretending to be the big three.
quote:
1) The Admiral in "Dr. Bashir, I Presume" gave a time of "200 years ago"
for the Eugenics wars, which would have put it in the 22nd century, not
the 20th.
True, but in STII Khan hmself said the Botany Bay had been lost in space since 1996. Since Kirk told him he'd been asleep for two centuries, well.... we've gone around and around on this point in other topics, so let's not go there.
quote:
2) "Future's End" which took place in the 90's showed no evidence that
the Eugenics Wars were going on, or had recently gone on.
Yes, but then again, how much battle damage did we see in the US during World War II? Just because there were various wars going on across the world doesn't necessarily mean we would see smoking rubble in the streets of L.A.
Also, Scotty very definitely commented on the low-tech of the ships (bulky, solid units... I think they called them transistors). I don't think the ship could have been that from too much farther in the future with technology like that. (Yes, I know we saw a similar ship as an automated freighter, but the dialogue said it had been refitted.)
Finally, the Eugenics Wars had to have been a group of smaller conflicts rather than one huge, global battle. If they were one massive war, why didn't the historians call it World War III? Thanks to FC, we know that took place in 2053.
Let's say Khan was indeed engineered in the late 20th century (that is, after 1950). Let's also say he and 39 others took over a big part of the world in 1992, and were defeated in 1996. And then let's say that the war did not end there and then. Only Khan made his escape, while others continued fighting over various aspects of the "eugenics" issue. Perhaps some of the other supermen continued the fight. Perhaps those who had defeated them did. In any case, this made the "Eugenics wars" into a plural, a vicious circle of regional conflicts that only ended when a "real" World War III came around and perhaps finally killed those still intent on fighting the eugenics fight.
Janeway would have entered LA during a pause between the first and second "Eugenics wars", just after Khan's assumed death and later-revealed escape. Sisko and pals in "Past Tense" could have visited Earth during or between later wars in the series - we heard a little more about what happened aboard, at least in France, but not everything that was going on.
That creates the lowest number of canon violations IMHO. It also prolongs the wars enough to make Kirk a bit confused. Of course, it makes Spock look a bit silly when the data he gives is so misleading as to the true length of the wars.
Timo Saloniemi
BTW, I don't think Spock was much of an expert on Earth's wars anyway; he botched the casualty figures for both World War I and II (I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt on WWIII).
People dont read '1984' and say 'hey, that didnt happen!' They understand that it was written as speculative fiction, as a product of the thoughts of the time period it was written
The best view of World War III was probably from the novel 'Federation' It involved military figures from dozens of governments siezing power, betraying thir homelands or generall doing bad things. It wasnt a war fought between specific nations, it was a series of civil wars caused by political, economic and societal unrest. The Optimum movement was led by Col. Thorsen, who had in his cadre Col. Green. They wanted to kill off 'surplus populations' those who werent elite or ideal humans. The only problem with all this is that it followed Next Generation history and lasted until 2079, the 'post atomic horror'.. and picked up on the thread of the 52 starred US Flag being in use until 2079, when the secessions happened.. at some point the phrase of 'the eighteen remaining United States' was used. chilling.
And First Contact actually went ahead and contradicted a lot of things about WWIII that had already been established in TOS and TNG, but DS9 and VGR didnt care for those views and just tried to show single stories of Earths past
[ September 12, 2001: Message edited by: CaptainMike ]
The politics of the U.S. in DS9's "Past Tense" didn't seem to be immediately post-superhuman-takeover either...so I don't really have a problem with saying the EW's rook place later.