Flare Sci-Fi Forums: More Fun With Fleets!

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Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :

Go to cnn.com and scroll down to "U.S. aircraft carrier overview" in the "Photo Galleries" section (in the middle of the page). What you'll find is the fleet compositions of the three aircraft carrier battle groups being deployed to eastern locations.

Compose an equivalent fleet composition for Starfleet's TNG era. Use canon starship classes only. Justify your answers.

Mark

[ September 20, 2001: Message edited by: Mark Nguyen ]

Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :

Comparison impossible. Starfleet does not maintain fighters, thus has no fighter groups or ships needed to carry such large numbers.

Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :

One would have to work out the task the task force is supposed to perform first. The carrier task force has two tasks: the cold-war one was to take control of a region of the Atlantic and secure it against submarine, air and surface threats so that merchant convoys could sail through this area, to the next area in a long chain that would lead from the US to Europe. The other task, still performed, is to take lots of tactical aircraft to the vicinity of a ground target, either for bombing raids or support of amphibious ops. In the latter role, the group is almost solely dedicated to keeping the carrier alive. In the former, cold war role, some of the ships at least did indie subhunting and stuff.

Trek cannot have a mission of holding an area of space for convoy passage - interstellar space is to damn much bigger than the Atlantic. But the mission of taking assault forces close to a target is quite possible. However, the assault force carriers in Trek don't seem to be prissy princesses who have to be protected - any starship can disgorge assault shuttles while protecting itself. So the balance would be different. Probably some ships to take care of fized defences, others to secure the orbit against defending ships, some to soften the ground defences, and then some to insert the troops. Plus a command vessel to coordinate, and whatever tenders and perimeter guards and scouts you need for the interstellar journey to the target.

Another mission might be to escort a convoy, WW II style. Probably a single central "citadel" ship plus plenty of small ones to hunt down the raiders and to give early warning.

Then there's the "space slugfest" fleet, for the typical everybody-at-impulse-in-empty-space combat. Apparently, there's no real internal organization to a fleet like that.

Can we invent any more missions? That might be more fun than trying to assign "tasks" to starships that don't seem to come in task-specific variants.

Timo Saloniemi

Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :

quote:
U.S.S. Enterprise
Battle Group:
• One aircraft carrier
• Two crusiers
• Five destroyers
• One frigate
• Three amphibious assault ships
• One combat support ship
• Two submarines
• One carrier air wing

Here we go:
- One fighter carrier (Akira? Shelley?)
- Two cruisers: Excelsior
- Five destroyers: Miranda? Saber?
- One frigate: New Orleans
- Three planetary assault vessels: Steamrunner
- One tactical support vessel: Nebula
- Two submarines: Challengers or Defiants
- A group of Starfleet fighters (seen in DS9)

Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :

Here's an idea for another fleet task: interstellar patrol. Yeah, space is big. But if you operate a large task force along the border, individual or multiple vessels can be dispatched to intecept intruders, raiders, or enemy reconaissance vessels. In this situation, speed would be more valuable than striking power, and smaller ships would likely be more desirable.

As for my idea of a task force, well, what the heck:

1 Galaxy-Class starship (command/carrier -- big shuttle deck)
2 Excelsior-Class cruisers
5 Defiant-Class destroyers
1 Cheyenne-Class frigate
3 New Orleans-Class assault ships
1 Nebula-Class combat support ship
2 Springfield-Class light cruisers (no submarines in space)
20 Peregrine-Class assault fighters

Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :

Given that most Starfleet starships seemed to be designed to fill multiple-role tasks, I don't see how a task force can be divided this easily.

Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :

(no submarines in space)

Hey, I know that! I was just figuratively (is that a word?) speaking!

Posted by Stingray (Member # 621) on :

Peacetime: the majority of ships aren't organized into fleets.

The primary explorers of the day (eg Galaxy) are not assigned to any particular region or sector of space. Evidenced by the fact the the Enterprise went everywhere in TNG. And also that the E-E and no other Sovvie was present in the Dominion war.

Smaller ships then assume the role of being assigned to specific sectors and areas of space for long periods. Nebbies in the Galaxy era for example. This would also explain why there are no admirals aboard Galaxies but there are aboard Nebbs and Excelsiors.

With the Dominion War, things got rearranged definetely. But I think its safe to say that the fleet arrangement seen in DS9 is an entirely different system then employed in TNG.

Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :

quote:
And also that the E-E and no other Sovvie was present in the Dominion war.

Just because we didn't see any in DS9, doesn't mean they were fighting on another front.

Posted by Stingray (Member # 621) on :

If there had been Sov's fighting on the Dominion front, don't you think that at some point that one of 'em would've showed up at DS9, the most key and strategically important spot in the entire war?

Posted by The Red Admiral (Member # 602) on :

on top of what Snay says, just we because we didn't see one dock at DS9, doesn't mean one didn't....

We only saw snippets of the total war effort, and we only saw snippets of the 600 strong fleet in 'Sacrifice of Angels'. Also take into account that the Sovs were virtually new, two definitely existed, the Enterprise and Sovereign, and maybe a couple of others. That's a small number compared to the hundreds of ships which supposedly fought in the Dominion campaigns...

Posted by Veers (Member # 661) on :

We could've seen some Intrepids, too, beside the Yeagers and the Bellerophon.
But I think that the Sovvies and the Intrepids were too hard to make for DS9 (Voyager was using the Intrepids and the Sovvie was too complicated). Maybe one of those Ships of the Line Calendar will have some docked at DS9!

Here's my fleet thoughts:
1 Sovereign-class command vessel.
2 Galaxy-class carriers.
4 Excelsior-class cruisers.
2 Chimera -class warships.
3 Miranda-class escorts.
20 Peregrine-class fighters.