I'm just thinking. What if the Breen warships truly ARE organic. Sense we know little about their ships, it's pretty much open season for anyone who wants to explain the contradiction between Tuvok's comment and the first sightings of the Breen ships. I'm just thinking. What if, after a Breen warship is fully grown, the Breen simply give it a suit of armor so to speak and a few cybernetic implants? That could easily explain why Tuvok said that the Breen use organic ships and yet, at the same time, they look mettalic.
This leads me to think about the Breen's "tropical homeworld" even though the Breen can only survive in extreme cold. You could easily say that the Breen evolved on the world's polar ice caps and that that is the only place on their planet where they can survive without their enviromental suits. Or by mentioning their "tropical homeworld," maybe that Vorta guy meant a tropical like landscape that thrives in the extreme cold of the Breen homeworld. You know. A totally different kind of tropical conditions.
I find the Breen quite interesting. Too bad they are humanoids. They would be far more interesting if they weren't. I guess that's true with any alien race though.
[ October 10, 2001: Message edited by: MIB ]
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
I think that whoever designed the Breen ships was unaware of the comment Tuvok made. I don't even recall anything in the Magazine article about Breen ships that stated that the ships were supposed to be organic. It was just one more insignificant comment that was forgotten later.
As for their planet being described as a "tropical paradise," was that really what Weyoun said? I thought he just said it was a "paradise." Maybe Vorta consider North Pole-like conditions paradise.
MIB: How do you know the Breen are humanoid? Because of their suits? Maybe they are in fact slugs like the Trills, and use those suits as transport mechanisms.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
There's no reason to think "organic" means "looks squishy." The word organic, after all, has a couple different meanings.
Posted by TheF0rce (Member # 533) on :
i interpreted the line as the ships circuitry being biological componets, kinda like gel packs, but not the entire ship or its outer hull.
Posted by Ryan McReynolds (Member # 28) on :
Technically, "organic" just means "carbon-based." It doesn't imply life in a chemistry context... and Tuvok is a Vulcan, right?
Posted by David Templar (Member # 580) on :
Yeah, not much about Breen ships exists. Though I still maintain that they used torpedoes as their primary weaponary thoughout the Dominion War. Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
The breen ships couldn't have been organic with metal armor. We've seen them destroyed and they are definatly metal inside...plus they didn't bleed.
But that doesn't contradict Tuvoks statement, they could still use an organic type of ship, we just never saw it. They were also supposed to have cloaking devises. Obviously they have alot of different technology, the fact that they don't seam to use it all at once seams to add the the confusion and mystery that surrounds them...which is probably what they'd want.
oh, and I think Weyoun said their climate was "Agreeable" or "Pleasent", definatly not tropical.
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
Well, we did see a metallic-type framework from the inside of a Breen ship during the battle of Chin'toka.
Personally, I think that the HULL of the Breen ship looks sort of organic. The greenish-grey hue gives me the impression of a kind of biological skin grown onto the ship.
Posted by Proteus (Member # 212) on :
I distinctively remember tropical.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Organic primarily means - as mentioned above - CARBON BASED... who Carbon can form a LOT of different structures. Maybe their hull is a crystal of buckminster fullerines!?! C60 'bucky' balls' or Bucky tubes. Their all carbon based. Or maybe the entire ship is normal tritanium, except the inner workings (like the Voyager's bio-neural gel packs) are organic. Maybe they extended the physiology into their ships - maybe they 'strip off' and intergrate with their ships personally!?! Who knows. I don't want to see what a Breen looks like. That would spoil the effect. Like how we saw a Gaim on B5 - that REALLY spoiled the effect. Everyone thought they would be this insectoid race.
Posted by MIB (Member # 426) on :
quote:Originally posted by Dukhat: MIB: How do you know the Breen are humanoid? Because of their suits? Maybe they are in fact slugs like the Trills, and use those suits as transport mechanisms.
You got a point. I've never even considered that.
About the Breen ships being seemingly metallic on the inside; I guess that blows my theroy about the metallic armor and so forth. Hmmmmm. I suppose that the Breen could be using both metallic AND organic ships, but that would be kind of wierd to have both kinds of ships in your fleet. Most races would simply go for one or the other.
Posted by OnToMars (Member # 621) on :
quote: Most races would simply go for one or the other.
What are you basing that on, exactly?
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
quote:Technically, "organic" just means "carbon-based." It doesn't imply life in a chemistry context... and Tuvok is a Vulcan, right?
True, but Tuvok was comparing the Breen's ships to Species 8472's ships, which were definitely of the "organic" type that are alive. He seemed to imply that the Breen ships were exactly the same way.
Again, I think the CGI people simply just forgot.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Well, it was in two different series...so they probably were unaware of the comment made by Tuvok.
However, they should have been aware of the statements made about the Breen in TNG and Generations. I think the fact that the Breen have cloaking technology was mentioned in "Hero Worship".
Weyoun said, "...it's quite pleasant on Breen." Nothing about Tropical.
Have they said that Starfleet officers don't knwo what the Breen looked like? Kira and Dukhat saw one when they stripped them of their suits in "Indiscretion". And Worf seemed to know a little bit about what they looked like when Ezri described her dream to him.
Posted by The Red Admiral (Member # 602) on :
I'm pretty sure the Breen are a mystery to Starfleet as to what they look like. I took it that they are humanoid, after all their refrigeration suits are that shape. Just like, I believe, the Tholians, in that they have to use environmental suits to survive in most alien climates. But it doesn't explain why they looked that way in 'Thoilan's Web', I mean, why wear an environmental suit on your own ship?
But I had thought Weyoun's comment about Breen was meant as sarcasm, I'm sure we've heard references that say Breen is an outer system ice world.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
"Just like, I believe, the Tholians, in that they have to use environmental suits to survive in most alien climates."
That's the first time I've ever heard it suggested that the Tholians wore environmental suits. Most people assume that was either a helmet, or the shape of the Tholian's head.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Breen has always been referred to as an ice world. I believe the first reference to it was when Quark said that some woman was as "cold as a Breen winter." The Breen had been mentioned before that, but I don't think the climate of their world had.
Dukat told Kira that it was "bitter cold on Breen." All these people seemed to know first hand what it was like on Breen. I choose to take Weyoun's comment as sarcasm...I don't know why he thought it was funny...but I don't care
Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
Breen references (to clear it up) #1: Betazoids can't read Breen. 'The Loss' (TNG) #2: They use cloaking devices and disruptors. They do NOT wear purple helmets. 'Hero Worship' [TNG] #3: A Breen pilot sailed in a race at DS3. 'Interface' (TNG) #4: Breen are one of a few races that use type-3 disruptors, already noted before. 'Generations' #5: Young pregnancies are common for the Breen 'Elogium' (VGR) #6: The Breen homeworld is a frozen wasteland 'Crossfire' [DS9] #7: Breen pirates shot down the Ravinok. They caused phaser burns instead of disruptor burns. They wear refrigerated suits 'Indiscretion' [DS9] #8: Breen pirates attacked a Bajoran colony in 2372 'To The Death' (DS9) #9: Owing to the cold climate of their evolution, the Breen do not have blood 'In Pugatory's Shadow' [DS9] #10: The Romulans say 'Never Turn your back on a Breen' 'By Inferno's Light' [DS9] #11: The Breen used 'spacecaft that employed biological technology' according to the ENCYC. 'Scorpion' [VGR]
After this, the Breen started appearing reguarly and were no longer the favortie name dropper race of scriptwriters.
Haven't touched it, in, well, two years. But its still fairly complete.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Wow. Only 348 days 'til "Enterprise" starts...
Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :
348 days till next September 26...
[ October 12, 2001: Message edited by: The_Tom ]
Posted by MIB (Member # 426) on :
quote:11: The Breen used 'spacecaft that employed biological technology' according to the ENCYC. 'Scorpion' [VGR]
I beleive the exact quote was, "Starfleet has encountered several races that use organic based vessels. The Breen for example." Tuvok--Scorpion Part 1
This leaves me to wonder about the other races Starfleet has encountered that use organic based vessels as well as the Breen warhips.
[ October 13, 2001: Message edited by: MIB ]
Posted by David Templar (Member # 580) on :
Well, there is "Tinman".
Posted by The Red Admiral (Member # 602) on :
TSN, yeh I had like many thought the Tholians were some bizarre silicon based species, due to their weird facetted heads. But I thought it was at least possible their appearance was due to some kind of hard suit, possibly an environmental suit like the Breen. But of course, no real canon info on this exists. Just a theory.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
To answer the Kira/Duckat seeing a breen when they stole it's clothes - maybe once the refridgeration suit has been penetrated or exposed to the surrounding air... the Breen might 'melt' or 'shrivel' or 'combust' or something that would prevent anyone from ever seeing them outside their suit - only if they visit them on Breen... which I'm guessing very few have done.
Andrew
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
I like the melting idea the most - either the suits are needed to prevent the destruction of the body, or they are built to CAUSE the destruction, for reasons of secrecy. Of course, S:AaB already did that one, with their combustible silicon lifeforms (a rare scientific plausibility point to them for that!).
But it could also be that there's a really good reason why Kira shouldn't tell about the true Breen nature to the Klingons, or to Worf in particular. Perhaps the Breen are smoothheaded Klingons? Perhaps they are Bajorans? Perhaps they are the Hur'q who pillaged the Klingon planet ages ago? (Perhaps there's no difference between those three?) Kira naturally won't tell Sisko, since she knows Sisko can't keep a secret. And the only other to ever strip a Breen would indeed be Dukat. Or perhaps Kira did the stripping for him?
As for "organic based ships", perhaps the Breen ones are capable of "life functions" like healing, growing and having little pup-ships? This would not require them to consist of any particular type of material, really. And if we assume that all the Breen warships we saw were of the same breed, their finest, then we can understand why they were all of the same shape but apparently of different sizes - some were younger than others!
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
I had an idea once that the Breen have some sort of mercury-based substance that flows between their cells and acts as an alternative to a circulatory system. If they get too warm, though, the mercury expands (cf. a thermometer) and all their cells burst, leaving them as just a mass of silvery goo.
Scientifically plausible? I don't know. Neat idea? I think so. :-)
As for Kira and Dukat... Was it shown that the suits they wore were definitely off the Breen they shot? Maybe they tried to get those suits off, couldn't, and found some spares in a closet, or something.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Maybe they are liquid life forms and when that suit comes off... all there is - is a large pile of watery mess...
