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Inefficiences in Jem'Hadar Attack Craft design.
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<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="1" width="95%" align="center"> <tr bgcolor="#234c6f"><td> <table border="0" width="100%" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="1"> <tr bgcolor="#234c6f"> <td colspan="2" align="left"> <font size="3" color="#FFFFFF" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>T O P I C ��� R E V I E W</b> </font></td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Nevod</b> <br /><small>Member # 738</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,11,15,3,46,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">December 15, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">03:46 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> It don't seems right to me:Too ineffective use of availible space.Why not make troop carrier and attack craft as separate designs? Current Attack Craft isn't very efficient for it's size, considering Dominion pretty good tech. Look, Defiant is only about 1.6 times larger, but it carries pretty amount of pulse phasers and torp launchers. And Jem'Hadars need even less interior space, so they have more place to install more polaron emitters and torp launchers in availible design.(Say, additional torp launcher, polaron turret, instant-fire torps on warp pylons etc)<br />Anyways, why not make carrier-heavy fighter pair? Carrier consisting of huge flight deck,or having extreme amount of dock points, so able to carry 200+ fighters and support 'em. Heavy fighter- extremely overpowered, carrying torps on it's wings(warp pylons), in fact, being a cannon with huge impulse drive and a shield generator, burning through fuel in mere minutes, but being able to take a ship almost 10 times its size(if launching all torps at once). <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Harry</b> <br /><small>Member # 265</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,11,15,4,32,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">December 15, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">04:32 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Some brief comments:<br /><br />I like your idea of a giant weapon with warp-engines. Kind of like a single-shot shield-piercing weapon. As for the carriers, couldn't the HUGE Dominion battleships also be carriers? They are certainly big enough. But do the Dominion actually have fighters? <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Nevod</b> <br /><small>Member # 738</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,11,15,5,0,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">December 15, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">05:00 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Huge battleships can be carriers...But did anyone seen battleship launching Attackers?<br /><br />I haven't said that torpedo fighter must be huge, but yes, it's one-time firing...I meant it carries torps on it's surface, so it's able to fire a huge load of torps at once... <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Sol System</b> <br /><small>Member # 30</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,11,15,15,22,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">December 15, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">03:22 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Um...what exactly would a Dominion "carrier" carry? <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Nevod</b> <br /><small>Member # 738</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,11,15,19,50,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">December 15, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">07:50 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Carrier carry fighters, alot of them, and also it carry supplies. <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Malnurtured Snay</b> <br /><small>Member # 411</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,11,15,19,52,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">December 15, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">07:52 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Or troops. But, uh, since the Jem'Hadar 'fighter' is a self-sufficient craft with a crew of a dozen, why would it need a carrier? Look, the 'Star Trek' universe doesn't have 'Star Wars' universe fighters ... i.e., no one or two man ships. All the 'fighters' we've seen (including Klingon BOPs) have crews in the dozen or up range. <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>David Templar</b> <br /><small>Member # 580</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,11,15,22,47,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">December 15, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">10:47 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Well, the Pereguines have a crew of two, and the Marqui raiders are often shown as two seaters... Or dozen seaters, goddamn VOY pilot. <br /><br />I have no problem with Jem'Hadar ship designs. They were meant to be easily mass produced like their soldiers. <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Phelps</b> <br /><small>Member # 713</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,11,16,12,41,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">December 16, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">12:41 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Just make sure you have the right specs. A Jem'Hadar fighter is closer to 100 meters in length and carries a crew of 42 Jem'Hadar and 1 Vorta ("The Ship").<br /><br />Thing is, those few weapons that it has were powerful enough to seriously damage a Galaxy-class starship. If they wanted to improve on that later, they might've had a budgetary choice between more weapons per attack ship or simply more attack ships that you can also ram into something. Starfleet doesn't have the latter option because it neither can mass-produce enough people to man a lot of ships, nor are its crews expendable. Neither is true for the Dominion, so why not go ahead and mass-produce existing designs, rather than invest time in research and development? <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Malnurtured Snay</b> <br /><small>Member # 411</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,11,16,20,2,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">December 16, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">08:02 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Well then, they certainly don't need a carrier! Proves my point even better <img src="smile.gif" border="0" alt="" /> <br /><br />Uh ... and, er, didn't "The Ship" have that Founder aboard? Makes sense that some of those Jem'Hadar aboard were extra security for the Founder, and not part of the regular crew. I thought "To The Death" implied that the ship only had a crew of a dozen Vorta and Jem'Hadar ... and didn't Ross say something to that effect in one of those episodes?<br /> <br /> [ December 16, 2001: Message edited by: Malnurtured Snay ] <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Timo</b> <br /><small>Member # 245</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,11,17,1,43,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">December 17, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">01:43 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> We have to remember what the Jem'Hadar primarily exist for. They are the peacekeepers of the Gamma quadrant side of the Dominion. If there is any sort of, um, difficulty, the Jem'Hadar come in and sort it out. Yet the Jem'Hadar are not present all the time, and sometimes take weeks to arrive on the scene.<br /><br />For this purpose, it seems reasonable to equip the Jem'Hadar with ships that can perform a variety of tasks. Specialized vessels would only be practical if one could know in advance what the trouble was and how to respond. The Jemmies simply barge in and sort it out using whatever variety of firepower is deemed best on the spot.<br /><br />A single attack ship is more like a police cruiser than a tank. If a police cruiser meets a pimpmobile full of machine-gun-armed junkies, the response is not to install a machine gun atop the cruiser - it is to call in more of the same cruisers, more of the shotguns and revolvers. Sure, there's the odd SWAT team or armored car waiting back at the precinct, but that's only used when a raid can be preplanned or when a situation persists long enough for the special forces to be sent out. <br /><br />Similarly, the Dominion would not send out its big cruisers or battleships or dedicated small anti-ship vessels when dealing with planetary unrest. If standard ships weren't enough, if the situation escalated and the enemy had superior ships, then more of the inferior attack ships would be sent (a few hundred dead Jem'Hadar is no problem for the Dominion). Only in an exceptional case would dedicated, purpose-built units be sent. Even the Alpha war need not have been such a special case - the Dominion shipyards could easily outproduce the enemy and cover all the losses ten times over, as seen towards the end of the war.<br /><br />Timo Saloniemi <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Austin Powers</b> <br /><small>Member # 250</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,11,19,5,14,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">December 19, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">05:14 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Makes one wonder about the abundance of their resources, doesn't it?<br />Has anyone ever started a thread about that subject - why the Dominion has such overwhelming amount of ships and can re-produce them so quickly? <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Timo</b> <br /><small>Member # 245</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,11,19,5,32,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">December 19, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">05:32 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> (Does a quick scan of the DS9 forum archives)<br /><br />No, I don't think so. The Dommies like to claim that they rule their entire quadrant, so perhaps their resource base indeed is orders of magnitude greater than that of the Alpha races. Then again, the said races sometimes act as if they ruled the entire Alpha... So perhaps the Dominion claims are to be treated with similar healthy disbelief.<br /><br />I guess the Dominion could simply have a technological gimmick that gives them superior production speed. An industrialized society can outproduce a non-industrialized one. A replicator-wielding society can outproduce a mere industrialized one. Perhaps the Dominion has something better than the replicator, just like their cloning skills give them an advantage in the production of manpower?<br /><br />Timo Saloniemi <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Shik</b> <br /><small>Member # 343</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,11,19,9,16,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">December 19, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">09:16 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Remember the old Looney Tunes bit? "1000 INSTANT MARTIANS--just add water" <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>OnToMars</b> <br /><small>Member # 621</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,11,19,9,25,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">December 19, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">09:25 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Shik, please tell me you can find that old cartoon. <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>mrneutron</b> <br /><small>Member # 524</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,11,20,0,29,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">December 20, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">12:29 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Shik:<br /><strong>Remember the old Looney Tunes bit? "1000 INSTANT MARTIANS--just add water"</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"><br /><br />Yep... "Hare-Way to the Stars", directed by Chuck Jones, 1958. <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>mrneutron</b> <br /><small>Member # 524</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,11,20,0,31,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">December 20, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">12:31 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Shik:<br /><strong>Remember the old Looney Tunes bit? "1000 INSTANT MARTIANS--just add water"</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"><br /><br />Yep... "Hare-Way to the Stars", directed by Chuck Jones, 1958. <br /> </font> </td></tr> </table></td></tr></table> <br /> <br />
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