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<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="1" width="95%" align="center"> <tr bgcolor="#234c6f"><td> <table border="0" width="100%" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="1"> <tr bgcolor="#234c6f"> <td colspan="2" align="left"> <font size="3" color="#FFFFFF" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>T O P I C ��� R E V I E W</b> </font></td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>The_Tom</b> <br /><small>Member # 38</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,11,21,21,15,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">December 21, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">09:15 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Looks like the Eaves/Drexler interview that came with the cutaway also had a section of Eaves' design of <b>a new/old Klingon battlecruiser</b>. TrekWeb has <a href=http://talk.trekweb.com/articles/2001/12/21/1008987972.html>partially transcribed it with a small scan of this ship</a>; I imagine one of the Enterprise sites will give a full transcription sooner or later.<br /><br />The ship is rather funky... Eaves goes on about how Trek tech most likely went through a rough-smooth-rough transition, and explains how he retro'ed the Klingon battlecruiser by giving it a "cable-stayed" look. Kinda has to be seen to understood, but I like it a lot.<br /><br />Anyway, there are two possibilities: One, that this interview was done ages and ages ago and this design was intended for "Unexpected" but got shelved by time or budgetary limitations, to be replaced by the D7 model from "Lineage." The interview would have to be four months old for this to be the case, which is a bit too much, I think.<br /><br />Second: that this design has yet to grace our screens. It could appear in "Sleeping Dogs" for instance, or if the magazine was really quick off the blocks, episode 18 or 19 or so, which won't go to the cameras until after Christmas. I think ST:Comm moves a little too slow for that, so I'm guessing it's due in "Sleeping Dogs." Perhaps someone could email Doug D. to confirm? <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Malnurtured Snay</b> <br /><small>Member # 411</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,11,21,21,18,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">December 21, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">09:18 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> *DAMN* I like that design! <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>MIB</b> <br /><small>Member # 426</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,11,21,21,26,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">December 21, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">09:26 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Shit. I wish so bad that that design made it in unexpected. I'm sure Bernd does too. <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>David Templar</b> <br /><small>Member # 580</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,11,21,21,45,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">December 21, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">09:45 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> OOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooooooo...... It's pretty... <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Masao</b> <br /><small>Member # 232</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,11,21,23,19,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">December 21, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">11:19 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> I think the shape is still a bit too similar to the D-7/Ktinga, but I agree it would've been much better than what we got. I especially like the impulse deck and those little extensions at the back of the wings. <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>MinutiaeMan</b> <br /><small>Member # 444</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,11,22,13,22,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">December 22, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">01:22 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Good God, can't Eaves design anything original for this show? <img border="0" title=":rolleyes:" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="rolleyes.gif" /> <br /><br />Just because something is supposed to be older doesn't mean it can't look different. Even if they're trying to have a design that is obviously supposed to be a Klingon battlecruiser, it's possible to use similar style elements without duplicating the entire design.<br /><br />Retconned Akira, now a retconned D7... this deal is getting worse all the time.<br /><br />(Maybe I'm too spoiled by Masao's much more creative Klingon designs. I'd much prefer his original D5 design to Eaves's POS.)<br /> <br /> [ December 22, 2001: Message edited by: MinutiaeMan ] <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Aban Rune</b> <br /><small>Member # 226</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,11,24,5,51,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">December 24, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">05:51 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> To me, that looks like a concepot drawing for the K'Tinga. I'd like to see a <i>different</i> looking ship. <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>CaptainMike</b> <br /><small>Member # 709</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,11,24,23,11,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">December 24, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">11:11 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> um.. wouldnt the d7/k'tinga's precursor look like the k't'inga? i love the design and a early stage of that desgin is whats called for right now.. whats all the bitchin about?<br /><br />and eaves didnt design the NX, drexler did i thought.. (and drexler admitted in the 'dont tell anyone i told you this' thread that TPTB ordered the akira class redux because the akira was popular (as per the st.com poll), and that it wasnt the brainchild of any of the design staff to bastardize this ship. why cant we get off this horse? <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>MinutiaeMan</b> <br /><small>Member # 444</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,11,25,5,5,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">December 25, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">05:05 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> I'm complaining because these designs lack originality. To be more specific, the D7 predecessor is nothing more than the exact same shape with a few features to make it look a little older.<br /><br />A ship can look like it's related (created by the same designers) without duplicating the entire design.<br /><br />Take, for example, the <i>K't'inga</i>, the Bird-of-Prey, and the <i>Vor'cha</i>. All carry the same basic layout (forward weapons section, long neck, engineering section, and wings), yet each is a significantly different design. Each is recognizable in its own right. But when I looked at the sketch of the pre-D7, I had to take a close look to even find the differences. The layout is entirely the same (right down to the shape of the wings and the command section), and the "different" details are basically superficial ones, such as the 3-beam neck and the slightly different nacelles.<br /><br />(Oh, and one more question: If the Klingon cruiser is going to be designed with less detail than the movie-era ship, then why does the Akiraprise have <i>more</i> detail than the TOS Enterprise? Talk about inconsistency...)<br /><br />As I said, I think I've been spoiled by more original work. In the past couple of weeks, I've been working with Masao to critique his new set of designs and articles on Klingon cruisers from 2160 to 2269. They're fundamentally different ships, but each retains the basic layout and "look" of the D7, establishing a clear lineage without duplicating any actual design. (I believe that he's planning to publish the work within a couple of weeks.) <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>PsyLiam</b> <br /><small>Member # 73</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,11,26,18,17,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">December 26, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">06:17 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> I hate to be a spoilsport, but:<br /><br />"Take, for example, the K't'inga, the Bird-of-Prey, and the Vor'cha. All carry the same basic layout (forward weapons section, long neck, engineering section, and wings), yet each is a significantly different design."<br /><br />Which does make sense until you realise that the Bird of Prey was designed to be a Romulan ship.<br /><br />"(Oh, and one more question: If the Klingon cruiser is going to be designed with less detail than the movie-era ship, then why does the Akiraprise have more detail than the TOS Enterprise? Talk about inconsistency...)"<br /><br />No. The Klingon Cruiser will have less detail than the movie-era ship, but will have more detail than the TV-era ship. The NX Enterprise has more detail than the TOS Enterprise, but less (or possibly the same amount of) detail than the movie design. <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>mrneutron</b> <br /><small>Member # 524</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,11,27,0,27,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">December 27, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">12:27 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by PsyLiam:<br /><strong>Which does make sense until you realise that the Bird of Prey was designed to be a Romulan ship.<br /></strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"><br /><br />I know the Romulans were supposedly mentioned in some early drafts of ST3 script, but no mention of the ship being of Romulan survives into the final shooting script, which is what ILM would have been working from. So, I don't agree that it was designed to be Romulan. When I look that the BOP model its design appears influenced by the K'tinga. Even it's "feathers" resemble the plating on that ship.<br /><br />Just my two cents. <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>MinutiaeMan</b> <br /><small>Member # 444</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,11,27,8,55,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">December 27, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">08:55 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Yeah, I know that the BOP from ST3 was originally supposed to be a Romulan ship. But early drafts of scripts don't count when you're theorizing inside the Trek universe. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> <br /><br />As for the detail... yeah, I guess it's unreasonable to expect the level of non-detail from the TOS TV series. "Trials and Tribble-ations" did a decent job of adding detail to the 1701 without ruining her smooth whiteish look. But the Akiraprise has even more detail than the DS9 model version. <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>AndrewR</b> <br /><small>Member # 44</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,11,27,10,22,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">December 27, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">10:22 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Re the KBOP... chop of the neck and replace the guns with nacelles and make sure the 'wings' are in the 'upright' position and you have the TOS Rommie BOP... well something more detailed. And considering the Rommies had the Klingon D7 ships... the neck would be a logical inclusion into new ships.<br /><br />Not to mention having the BIRD design - which was originally on the TOS Rommie BOP. and it being called a BOP. <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Dax</b> <br /><small>Member # 191</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,11,27,19,33,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">December 27, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">07:33 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> But IIRC the Romulan "Bird of Prey" was never actually given a name in any episode. For all we know it could be the A-type Warbird. <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>PsyLiam</b> <br /><small>Member # 73</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,11,28,20,32,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">December 28, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">08:32 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> "When I look that the BOP model its design appears influenced by the K'tinga. Even it's "feathers" resemble the plating on that ship."<br /><br />Yes, but they resemble the "feathers" of a Romulan BOP even more.<br /><br />Are you sure ILM would have waited until they got the final shooting script before beginning design and model building? Wouldn't they have had some idea before hand?<br /><br />"We're going to need an advanced looking Starfleet vessel. Bigger and better than the Enterprise. Oh, and a new Romulan Bird of Prey".<br /><br />And then 6 months later, they could have changed it to Klingon Bird of Prey. At which point ILM looked at the design they'd made, and added a neck to make it look more "Klingon", possibly. <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>mrneutron</b> <br /><small>Member # 524</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,11,28,21,35,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">December 28, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">09:35 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by PsyLiam:<br /><strong>Are you sure ILM would have waited until they got the final shooting script before beginning design and model building? Wouldn't they have had some idea before hand?<br /></strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"><br /><br />It's possible. And, in fact, in the ST3 article in Cinefex #18, production supervisor Warren Frankling claims they were involved very early in the process.<br /><br />However, the article's discussion of ship design makes no mention of Romulan anything, and in reference to the ship's bird design, the only comment is "On the underside there's a bird design, but it's pretty difficult to see because its so integrated into the body. Its more graphic -- straight line and military-looking. Klingons aren't into aesthetics, you know."<br /><br />So, make what you will of that. <br /> </font> </td></tr> </table></td></tr></table> <br /> <br />
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