This is topic 2373: The Borg Battle at Sector 001 in forum Starships & Technology at Flare Sci-Fi Forums.


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Posted by Proteus (Member # 212) on :
 

The Entire Analysis

I really liked this battle. I just got a new surround sound system and of course I poped this disc in to test it out -- and it made me think... why not make a post on flare about it! Yay... so here we are.
First a few notes. Most of the names are conjecture (obvious). I watched the scene a few times and took note of most of the ship's flight path, and drew conclusions on where they could realisticly travel to between takes/scenes. And this is what I came up with. A list of the ships at 001. This is my first analysis, and I want all of your input so I can make revisions.

Enjoy!

Cut design: USS Endeavor NX-77047 Endevor-Class (admrial's ship)

A) Defiant-Class USS Defiant NX-74205
B) Saber-Class debris USS Saber NX-61503
C) Miranda-Class USS Majestic NCC-31060
D) Soyuz-Class USS Bozeman NCC-1941
E) Akira-Class USS Rabin NCC-63293
F) Saber-Class USS Yeager NCC-61947
G) Oberth-Class USS Valiant NCC-20000
H) Oberth-Class USS Biko NCC-50331
I) Saber-Class USS Madison NCC-61470
J) Steamrunner-Class USS Appalacia NCC-52136
K) Steamrunner-Class USS Hiroshima NCC-58665
L) Norway-Class USS Budapest NCC-64923
M) Unknown
N) Norway-Class USS Norway NCC-64413
O) Norway-Class USS Jaeger NCC-65650
P) Akira-Class USS Spector NCC-65549
Q) Saber-Class USS Unknown Name
R) Same as "L"
S) Nebula-Class USS Lexington NCC-61832
T) Akira-Class USS Thunderchild NCC-63549
V) Saber-Class (Unknown Name - could be the same as Q.)
W) Norway-Class (maybe "O", on a third run around the cube.)

[ February 04, 2002, 07:55: Message edited by: Proteus ]
 

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Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
 
Wow, a good attempt here!

>B) Saber-Class debris USS Saber NX-61503

Previous analysis concluded that this wreckage couldn't belong to any known class.

>D) Soyuz-Class USS Bozeman NCC-1941

This is just some standard Miranda. I don't beleive in the theory that the Bozeman was refitted to be a Miranda, BTW.

>E) Akira-Class USS Rabin NCC-63293

I beleive the original reference for the Rabin was in the Fact Files, no?

>G) Oberth-Class USS Valiant NCC-20000

Okay, but only if she was destroyed here - thus enabling a Defiant-class ship to be commissioned mere weeks later and lost behind enemy lines mere weeks after that. Personally, I'd blow her up much earlier than here.

>M) Klingon Bird of Prey (some random klingon ship name here)

I'd bet my grandpappy's best hooch that this isn't a BoP.

Most everything else has little to contest it. Good work!

Mark
 

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Posted by Proteus (Member # 212) on :
 

quote:

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Previous analysis concluded that this wreckage couldn't belong to any known class.

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quote:

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This is just some standard Miranda. I don't beleive in the theory that the Bozeman was refitted to be a Miranda, BTW.

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quote:

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I beleive the original reference for the Rabin was in the Fact Files, no?

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quote:

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Okay, but only if she was destroyed here - thus enabling a Defiant-class ship to be commissioned mere weeks later and lost behind enemy lines mere weeks after that. Personally, I'd blow her up much earlier than here.

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quote:

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I'd bet my grandpappy's best hooch that this isn't a BoP.

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quote:

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W) Nebula-Class debris admrial's ship?

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quote:

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P) Akira-Class USS Lexington NCC-62964

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quote:

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Originally posted by David Templar:
Is it me or is that Nebula labeled "S" firing torpedoes from the wrong spot?

Just love the ship labeled "Duh..."

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S) Nebula-Class USS Lexington NCC-61832

Looks right to me. Actually, I always forget about the Neb when I watch this scene. Its always a pleasant surpise (its my second favorite ship class).

Anyone want some full res shots? I cant make many, but I'll certainly try to get some good ones.
 

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Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
 
Yeah, I think we could benefit with some full rezzies. Especially of the "furball" shots of the middle column.

Speaking of which, I think your analysis would benefit from numbering the individual frames. It'd make for easier reference.

Mark
 

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Posted by Proteus (Member # 212) on :
 
Here are some high res stills from the DVD.

)

I actually scaled up the blurry ships before I scaled the images down, so I wouldnt lose resolution on them.

As for using a frame number.. great idea.. but a little late now...

augh.

[ February 01, 2002, 10:34: Message edited by: Proteus ]
 

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Posted by J (Member # 608) on :
 
The odd piece out in the top left marked B does seem to have square life pod hatches. And that pretty much means it's got to be from the Sabre class... but I don't see any red lines on the top side of the Sabre class that would match with the lifepods [at least in the Ency 2.5 images].

However, when I first saw it, I must admit that I thought it was from the Defiant.

Now, if those weren't lifepod hatches...
 

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Posted by TheF0rce (Member # 533) on :
 
That supposed Intrepid is a Norway.

And wheres that Streamrunner that got blew up by the borg explosion??? LOL worst death...ever!.
 

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Posted by Phelps (Member # 713) on :
 
B doesn't have square-hatches -- they're the new diamond hatches.

That piece can also be seen, in full-res, on the Thirst Contact bottle label (TNG Sketchbook).
 

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Posted by Topher (Member # 71) on :
 
At first I thought that B could be the Zandura, but the hatches are too big... Unless the Zandura is supposed to be a small ship. But the picture makes it look like a large ship.
 

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Posted by Topher (Member # 71) on :
 
BTW, here's my quick and messy side view tracing of the Zandura.
 

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Posted by Vogon Poet (Member # 393) on :
 
Nice. I taught him everything he knows, you know. 8)

Although it'd be even better, young Fabrux, if you were to volunteer to do the odd diag for UP3. . . B(

And those high-res caps are droolsome!
 

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Posted by Proteus (Member # 212) on :
 
Nuts... now I have to disagree. I dont know about R looking like a norway, i think it looks a lot more like an intrepid. the norway isnt 'domed' like that..

K was blown up by the explosion, i belive.

As for the debris. Its clearly not saber-class.
 

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Posted by Proteus (Member # 212) on :
 
9:25PM PST

 Strange debris in still 2 is unknown.
 

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Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
 
It's an unknown class, we said. Hang on, I'll scan it.

Unknowns

Mark

[ February 01, 2002, 21:03: Message edited by: Mark Nguyen ]
 

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Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
 
Hey, Proteus...

Can you get a nice, large still of the Miranda/Possible Bozeman, please?

Thanks,
-MMoM
 

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Posted by targetemployee (Member # 217) on :
 
A really stupid question-
On the header to this topic, the poster listed a series of names and registries. What is the source of this list?
 

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Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
 
Don't you think that piece of debris looks like it could have come from this study by John Goodson, as seen in the TNG Sketchbook?

That 'thing' in the upper Unknown pic looks like the stardrive of a Nebula, or else a Galaxy.. Could it be a separated Nebula!?

[ February 02, 2002, 01:08: Message edited by: Harry ]
 

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Posted by Proteus (Member # 212) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by targetemployee:
A really stupid question-
On the header to this topic, the poster listed a series of names and registries. What is the source of this list?

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quote:

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Originally posted by Proteus:
...st a few notes. Most of the names are conjecture (obvious)...

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quote:

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Originally posted by Harry:
Don't you think that piece of debris looks like it could have come from this study by John Goodson, as seen in the TNG Sketchbook?

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Extremely. Wow thats a good find. Wasn't this an original Enterprise-E design? was ever modeled?

I also thought It might of been a piece of the Endevor (see: TNG Movies Sketchbook) but I dont think that got past initial sketching.

In all truth, the peice of debris was probably just modeled as debris.

[ February 02, 2002, 01:27: Message edited by: Proteus ]
 

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Posted by Proteus (Member # 212) on :
 

 

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Posted by Phelps (Member # 713) on :
 
Might be good to get some of these registries straight. The sequence was shot in 1996, after DS9's season four wrapped, and possibly after preproduction on season five had started. So, isn't the Nebula likely to be the "Leeds" that is usually docked on the upper pylon of DS9? What was the Miranda last labeled as (IIRC, it also was seen docked at the end of "Way of the Warrior").

It's possible that the models were relabeled, but until we know for certain, why not pick the most likely names for them?
 

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Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
 
Probably whatever it was labled in "Generations" for the final shot....actually, now that I think about it, didn't they create CG models of those 3 ships for the jump into warp? someone look at the footage and see if the jump looks like the old fashioned stretch or the newer CG warp.
My point is, if they did make CGI models for these three then it might explaine their presence in First Contact amoungst the new CG ships.
 

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Posted by Dat (Member # 302) on :
 
I'd have to agree with Phelps on the Nebbie. The model (if indeed it's the same model) was labeled as Leeds after it was labeled as Farragut.
 

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Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
 
The ships at the end of Generations were physical models. The Nebula was labeled as the Farragut (NCC-60597), the Oberth as the Valiant (NCC-20000), and the Miranda is at this point unknown. (Though a theory holds that it may have been the Bozeman [NCC-1941].)

The physical Nebula model was last labeled as the Leeds (NCC-70352) but I think the ship that it's supposed to represent in the film is the Lexington (NCC-61832). It probably doesn't represent the Endeavour (NCC-71805), as there were plans to create a new ship named that for this movie.

-MMoM
 

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Posted by Dat (Member # 302) on :
 
If that Miranda was never relabeled, it may still say "USS Saratoga NCC-31911", it's previous appearance. (With the rollbar saying, "USS Brittain, NCC-21166".) And that theory about it representing the Bozeman is your theory alone, Mim.
 

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Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
 
Actually, it's not mine, it came from several other people. But I find it very interesting, and maybe even probable.

But you are most correct in that we've seen no verification of it in any solid way.

However, in Generations, it is definitely a 4-digit registry on the Miranda, so it cannot be the Saratoga's or the Brattain's. It's impossible to tell even remotely what it is, but it does appear to be an NCC-xxxx.

-MMoM
 

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Posted by Phelps (Member # 713) on :
 
The only known four-digit number that would fit is that of the Bozeman, which is interesting since the ship was mentioned both in "Generations" and here in "First Contact". Okuda never bothered to make up a separate registry for the new Bozeman in the Encyclopedia, so it's quite likely that this indeed was that same Bozeman.

I don't see a problem with the ship being refitted into a standard Miranda. Back in the 23rd century, they might've been unable to perform such a refit, and as FrankG's SWDAO points out, it's probably a relatively new hull -- the time loop kept it in its 2278 condition, and we have no evidence that the Mirandas are refits of forty-year-old starships like the Constitutions were.

I'd make the Bozeman into a Miranda-class rather than a Soyuz, keep the Nebula-class Lexington, and use any other reasonable name for that other Miranda. The Majestic seems fine -- after all, it always seems to pop up when needed , so why not here as well?

[ February 03, 2002, 04:49: Message edited by: Phelps ]
 

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Posted by pIn'a' Sov (Member # 293) on :
 
I�m curious, in this reply:

quote:

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It's an unknown class, we said. Hang on, I'll scan it.

Unknowns

Mark

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It�s two great pics, and the lower one is from the beer label, but the top one, with two ships? What is that, and where in the borg battle can you see those two ships?? I know, stupid question, but I really can�t see it anywhere

[ February 03, 2002, 05:29: Message edited by: pIn'a' Sov ]
 

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Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
 
The lower one is from the 2nd battle of chintoka (sp?).
 

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Posted by TheF0rce (Member # 533) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Proteus:
Nuts... now I have to disagree. I dont know about R looking like a norway, i think it looks a lot more like an intrepid. the norway isnt 'domed' like that..

K was blown up by the explosion, i belive.

As for the debris. Its clearly not saber-class.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Vogon Poet:
Although it'd be even better, young Fabrux, if you were to volunteer to do the odd diag for UP3. . . B(

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Well, I'm only good at tracing diagrams. I'm not good at all at drawing freehand.
 

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Posted by Vogon Poet (Member # 393) on :
 
Well, that's all any of us do. Drop me a line next time you're on ICQ and we'll discuss it.
 

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Posted by Proteus (Member # 212) on :
 
I looked over the intrepid/norway mix up and it is indeed a Norway.
 

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Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
 
I'm not sure if this is at all relevant, but in the teaser traliler for FC there is a brief shot of a borg cube (that doesn't look like either the original or the movie type) being fired at by none other than Voyager. I may be wrong but I have never seen this shot in any of Voyager's Borg episodes. Does anyone have an explanation for this?
 

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Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
 
Ah.. That's the infamous airbrush shot superimposing Voyager over the E-D saucer from "Best of Both Worlds".

Mark
 

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Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
 
Wha??
 

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Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
 
Just a bit of very early in the game promotional footage. I'm tempted to say it was originally done for Voyager, as a "here's what it will look like if we have the ship encounter the Borg" sort of exercise that was tossed into early First Contact promotional material because it was available. But I couldn't tell you where I heard it, or how reliable it is.
 

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Posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov (Member # 742) on :
 
^^^^

It shows the saucer of USS Voyager (you can read the NCC), seen from the bridge dome, obviously firing a (huge) phaser at a borg cube similar to the one from 'BoBW'.
 

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Posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov (Member # 742) on :
 
http://www.geocities.com/cpt_kyle_amasov/VOYAGER.JPG

Don't know where the credits go for this picture. Don't even know where I found it. But while looking for the shots of the shuttle from Generations on one of my old backup-CD's, I found it, too.
 

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Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
 
There is a clearer picture of it on my First Contact DVD, the cube is definatly NOT the BoBW model or the new one for FC. It seams to have a repeated pattern rather than the familiar random shapes. Perhaps a prototype for the Voyager CG cube in "Unity"?
 

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Posted by Rogue Starship (Member # 756) on :
 
Hey, I don't know if anyone pointed this out to you but in the sceen where you have the Saber (B) drifting below the Ent-E's hull when she is firing, but that is a Steamrunner, not the Saber. It is prob, the ship that got hit with the torp right before Picard said "Fire."

Hope this helps!

RS
 

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