I was just looking at a side view of the NX-Enterprise someone posted in another thread. There has been something that annoyed me about that edge of the saucer section... why did they copy the edge of the Excelsior class ship? Why could they have it angling down like the E-Nil? Not a MAJOR difference - but it would have been just a little bit extra that kept the tech-continuity going.
Hmmmm.
Posted by Antagonist (Member # 484) on :
Why do you find this discontinuous to technological advancement?
If anything the easiest explanation for this is simply that the NX, and possibley pats and future vessels merely used similar design characteristics. The most noticeable being that on the Excelsior and Akiraprise.
Posted by The359 (Member # 37) on :
You know, I could say something about the title of this thread, but I savor my being able to post on this board...
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
How can the angle of a saucer's rim be ANY indication of techological advancement!?
Just because seventies fandom couldn't do anything more creative than eternally kitbashing the 1701 doesn't mean that there isn't any diversity in shipdesigns in the 22nd and 23rd centuries.
(I must add that FJ's kitbashes have gained such a high cult value that I now accept them as 'real' )
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Well OK let me rephrase what I'm saying... the edge of the saucer of the NXEnt looks exactly like the edge of the excelsior. I'm sick of people allowing the copout by saying 'oh I guess they just reused the idea later on' the Excelsior is the only ship to have this type of bevelling on the edge of it's saucer sections. Presumably there was a reason for this.
I guess I just haven't fallen under the spell of Berman and Braga like so many have of recent times to let things like this just SLIDE (yeah so it's firmly entrenched now that the show is a reality but that still doesn't make it look right). What happened to that beautiful and elegent concept of Technology unchained... or what ever - one could easily see the design lineage from Enterprise to Enterprise - and even branches to the mirandas/nebulas/danubes etc. Then we get the throw-back Sovereign class and now the NXent which takes all these designs from the FUTURE and sticks them on an 'old' vessel. The NXent looks like it should be hanging around after the Dominion War! If so many ships are borrowing from this ancient design - why haven't we seen any TNG era ships with TOS-esque nacelles.
Anyway I'm talking about this technology design flow - it is more realistic (from what we've seen before to gradually change and evolve designs not chop and change or jump from one design type between 'generations' as the NXEnterprise has.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
"the Excelsior is the only ship to have this type of bevelling on the edge of it's saucer sections."
*cough*Ambassador*cough*
Posted by The359 (Member # 37) on :
You know, there's only 3 friggin directions the saucer rim can go. Vertical, beveled out, and beveled in. So they aren't copying the Excelsior. That's just what the felt like it should go when they build the thing.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Ahhhh yes the Ambassador...
NxEnt TOSEnt Entrefit Excel Amb Gal Sov \ ......... / ...... /........ \...... \ ... )... \
OK, hang on - it's not so much the angle of the rim so much as that the whole 'rim design' looks exactly like the excelsior class... the tapered edge, the lines when looking at it side on, the yellow rectangles every now and then... hmmm.
I don't know if I can EXACTLY explain when I'm talking about - I guess it comes down to another aspect that they could have tweaked to make it look 'new' but more TOSish instead of later tech. The nacelles are fine and so is the sensor dome and bridge module though.
[ February 16, 2002, 22:29: Message edited by: AndrewR ]
Posted by Michael_T (Member # 144) on :
I suggest then you pray that the ship blows up. I am.
Posted by The359 (Member # 37) on :
.....
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Yellow rectangles? You mean the maneuvering thrusters?
Posted by Siegfried (Member # 29) on :
We're forever going to be plagued by Enterprise threads on this subject, aren't we?
Once again, let me echo this: the direction of the slant of the saucer edge or the lack of a slant in the saucer edge is not indicative of technological advancement. There is nothing more challenging about the saucer edge slanting up or down or not at all. You either make the deck above slightly bigger or smaller or not at all different from the deck below it.
Now if you want to talk about the stuff on the saucer edge, that's a different matter. Along the edge, according to pictures I've seen and interviews I've read, at sensor platforms (one on either side of the deflector), manuevering thrusters, and airlocks. All of these are exposed (like on latter starships), but not on the TOS era Constitution-class starship.
I do have a rational explanation for this, though: the TOS era Enterprise used a lot of "porous" material and hull coverings. We never saw the impulse engines glow, but we saw square and circular hatches on the cowling through which we assume the thrust/energy escaped. This is similar to the theory of the Defiant's impulse engines that (I think) Sternbach presented in the DS9 manual. We could also say the same about the nacelles since the exteriors of the nacelles facing centerline have a series of grilles on them. Plus, the ship had a lot of hull coverings. On the model, there are no discernable ports for the phasers or photon torpedos, or airlocks. In one episode of TOS, we saw Kirk retract a metal hatch to look out a window. The ship had to have airlocks and thrusters; I would surmise that they used covering or the "porous" material.
Now, to fit everything together. Early Earth starships had everything exposed to space. Polarizing hull plating was the only form of protection they had. After a while, deflector shields came about that offered better protection, and starship designers began to move the equipment behind coverings and "porous" material in order to better protect the sensitive components. To borrow a page from Shane Johnson, roughly around the time of TMP, advances in technology provided for more effective sheilding. So, some of the components were moved back out. Plus, advancement in thrusters and sensors necessitated moving them back outside the hull for proper functioning.
That's how I look at this issue. Human space travel in Enterprise is still in it's infancy. The most advanced race they know are the Vulcans, and they aren't sharing their secrets. So Enterprise was designed for the various components to work at their best. They sat on the hull until ship designers were forced to rethink their vulnerability. We already see some of this in the design of Enterprise and the original Enterprise with hull coverings on the phase cannons and phasers (respectively).
And, on a different note, there has been a TNG-era ship with nacelles similar to the TOS Enterprise's. The Ambassador's (Enterprise-C configuration) nacelles are fairly close in design to the original Enterprise's. In fact, that entire ship shares many design similarities with the original Enterprise.
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
)
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)