This is topic Princeton (again) in forum Starships & Technology at Flare Sci-Fi Forums.


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Posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov (Member # 742) on :
 
I have a small question; I want to redo the schematic of the Niagara-class. Fot this I try it find out what exactly was used to build the model. Allthough EAS says the saucer of the starship Princeton was custom-built, I think it was a kitbash.
Let's start at the beginning: How many Ambassador-models did they have? And - more important - what size did they have? The Niagara-secondary hull is said to be part of the 3-foot Ambassador-model (obviously the damaged Enterprise-C since they would have destroyed that ship in order to build the new Niagara). Did they have a larger model, too?
I noticed this while looking at the Ambassador-hull schematic. If you cut off a ring of the saucer, directly below the forward phaser strip, you get a smaller saucer. If you do the same with the lower saucer, you get a new one, round, with phaser strips at the edge of the saucer intead of half way down to the rim. The only problem is the fact that the saucer from the model Jein is holding on that photo seems to be (if you re-add the lower rim part of the saucer) larger compared to the secondary hull.
At first I thought it was just imagination, but I'm not sure about this. Did they use another larger Ambassador-saucer to create the saucer? (Take the bridge dome as an example; I'm sure that is an Ambassador-dome, from the same model as the saucer. If this one is from a larger version of the Ambassador-model, the saucer used to build the Freedom could be the one from that Enterprise-C model. Smaller, compared to the one used here, but it would fit on top of Niagara's secondary hull).

Let's summarize it:
E-C saucer (3ft.) -> Freedom
E-C hull (3ft.) -> Niagara
Another Ambassador-saucer (>3ft.) -> Niagara

What do you think?
 

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Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
 
Captain, I don't think so.

First of all, I'm telling you...THAT SAUCER IS ELLIPTICAL!!!!!

Secondly, the breakdown of what was used for the model was done by Masaki Taniko, who personally saw the model itself up close, IIRC. So I think it's at least fairly reliable. I agree though, that the bridge module itself looks to be from an Ambassador.

-MMoM
 

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Posted by NeghVar (Member # 62) on :
 
Elliptical...and has "5" (yes "5") phaser strips on the saucer...

Later!
Art
 

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Posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov (Member # 742) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim:
First of all, I'm telling you...THAT SAUCER IS ELLIPTICAL!!!!!

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Oh my god, not this again!

http://www.geocities.com/cpt_kyle_amasov/princeton.jpg

I've prepared something. It's not good, it's confusing and ugly, but you can see what I mean.
Remove the phasers to the left and right, turn the bridge module and paint it. Then add windows (maybe you can even use the old window configuration - there are three rows from dome to phaser) and another name. Done.

Furthermore, the model as well as the Freedom were built by Jein, and now guess who built the Ambassador-model.
 

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Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
 
All you have to do is take a look at that Princeton picture's angle of windows. For instance, the ring on the saucer that's closest to the bridge. It follows a sort of widened horseshoe path -- one that's definitely elliptical.
 

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Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
 
The Enterprise-C was refurbished to appear as other, later ships, so theres little or no chance it was disassembled and destroyed. The working theory we have is that pieces of the Niagara were made from the 1701-C molds.

BTW im glad somebody finally cropped Jein out of that picture

[ March 04, 2002, 11:24: Message edited by: CaptainMike ]
 

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Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
 
Yes, look at this thread from a week or so ago. The author of the article said Jein had casts of the Ambassador. I commented on it, but it seems it was glossed over.

NeghVar and MinutiaeMan: Thanks for backing me up. The saucer is not circular, and therefore cannot be from the Ambassador model. It's a custom-built piece, but possibly with Ambassador bridge module components.

-MMoM
 

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Posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov (Member # 742) on :
 
Let's put it this way: I would be happier if the saucer was elliptical, but from what we've seen, the saucer could also be round.
For now, the Ambassador-kitbash is an option, but until we get a better response than 'unknown part' this is as good as any other option. Elliptical or not, for now we don't have the ultimate answer. So it could be both. Part of the Ambassador, for example. And that would be round.
 

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Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
 
Draw lines parallel to the lengths of the windows. On a circular saucer, all the lines meet in the same spot in the middle of the saucer. It doesn't matter what angle you tip the saucer at. Go ahead and try it on that Ambassador pic.

Now try the same thing on the Niagara pic. The lines don't come to gether in the center. That's because it's elliptical.
 

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Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
 
Are you not hearing the words coming out of our mouths? I suggest you pluck your fingers out of your ears. THE NIAGARA HAS AN ELLIPTICAL SAUCER. IT IS NOT AN AMBASSADOR'S SAUCER. And if you'd be happier with it that way, why do you keep arguing against it?

Surrender, Captain Kyle, surrender! There is no hope of escape!

-MMoM
 

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Posted by Fructose (Member # 309) on :
 
It damn well better have an elliptical saucer. That's what my model is going to have once I finish it. (Just need to paint and decal it and I'm done.) It also looks eliptical to me. Here, here's a comparison I made with my Ent-C model...
The comparison

Now tell me what you think.
 

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Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
 
Well, that's interesting... The phaser strips really do seem to match up, don't they? But it's still elliptical. I wonder what could explain that? Was the saucer supposed to look like an elliptical Ambassador saucer? Is it just coincidence? Or is there some way an elliptical saucer could have been made using the E-C mold?
 

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Posted by Proteus (Member # 212) on :
 
I just did a bit of measuring in photoshop...

DEFFINITELY elliptical
 

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Posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov (Member # 742) on :
 
For the past 30 minutes I looked at the picture of the Princeton and compared it with the Ambassador.

I surrender. (I can already hear your evil laugh, Mim! )

At first I thought it's just a bad angle. Then I thought they took the Ambassador-saucer and deformed it to look elliptical. Then I thought they cut the saucer into two peaces and filled the middle part, making it round-with-an-elliptical-appearance. But I don't think any of those theories can stand the truth any longer. Furthermore, the phasers appear to be similar, but they aren't. The aft phasers are longer than Ambassadors, even if it is an Ambassador-hull. It looks damn close to the original, but obviously, it isn't.

So I'll use an elliptical saucer for the schematic.
Fructose, I noticed you are currently building the Niagara (it really seems everyone over here went Niagara-insane in the last days... ). What did you use for the saucer? (I assume it is a 1:1-model of the original?)
 

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Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov:
I surrender. (I can already hear your evil laugh, Mim! )

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*laughs evilly*

-MMoM

[ March 05, 2002, 14:40: Message edited by: The Mighty Monkey of Mim ]
 

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Posted by Fructose (Member # 309) on :
 
I wish it was a 1:1 with the original. I'm using a mix and match process here. A 1/1400 ent-c secondary hull, a 1/2500 ent-d saucer with a 1/1400 ent-c bridge and the pahsers re-arranged. It's just my approximation, so I wouldn't consider it accurate. And some how I came up with slightly shorter nacelles than the 1/1400 ent-d. I'd have to go through my notes again to see how I came to that conclusion though. But I can always get full sized ones if you guys think that's more accurate. They aren't attached yet.
 

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Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
 
I'm fairly sure that the secondary hull and nacelles should be to the same scale...it's just that the Fact Files made them look oversized. At least, from the studio model it certainly looks like they could be regular Galaxy-sized, and it's more likely Jein used those than some custom-resized ones.

-MMoM
 

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Posted by Fructose (Member # 309) on :
 
I know, but I'm just working with what I have. When I get it done, you can tell me what you think.
 

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Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
 
Okay, sorry. I just thought you were asking whether you should use one scale nacelles or another. I just mean that if your Ambassador hull is 1/1400, than the nacelles should be 1/1400 as well...

-MMoM

[ March 05, 2002, 15:29: Message edited by: The Mighty Monkey of Mim ]
 

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Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
 
Hey, Mim, why don't you just -- oh, I don't know -- update you f'in profile?
 

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Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
 
If you're talking about the e-mail thing, the deal is that you can't use hotmail or other freemail servers for your account. Board policy.

-MMoM

P.S.
Unless CC changed his tune and I didn't know about it...
 

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Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
 
I might be a little behind reguards this princeton issue, but did anyone notice that it had Arboretum windows? Does that point to a Neb/Gal connection as to what was the original part used for the saucer?
 

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Posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov (Member # 742) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by AndrewR:
I might be a little behind reguards this princeton issue, but did anyone notice that it had Arboretum windows? Does that point to a Neb/Gal connection as to what was the original part used for the saucer?

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