We should make inqiries to find out what the Centaur model was named. Who might know? Dan Curry? Hutzel? Someone else in the VFX Dept?
Can somebody make some contacts and try to find out. There's probably *someone* out there who remembers...
Maybe we could try to find out who built the model.
-MMoM
[ March 22, 2002, 17:27: Message edited by: The Mighty Monkey of Mim ]
Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :
Dare I ask why this is really relevant? I mean, it would be a harmless enough question if you could get it answered in casual conversation at the dentist's office, but can't we come up with, I dunno, better questions to email busy people about? Like perhaps ones they stand a hope in hell of remembering without actually digging out the model in four pieces from a crate somewhere?
No matter how many platitudes you slap onto the email to whoever, the very fact that you want someone to stop and look up something that bloody inane is pretty damn disrespectful. Remember the good ol' days, when we couldn't email Okuda at the drop of the hat and ask him who made which typographical mistake on which Okudagram? We got by. IMHO a lot of people are taking the good will that Okuda & co. have shown for granted.
The above aside, isn't what's written on the saucer pretty irrelevant, seeing as it was never shown onscreen and the ship was given a pretty bloody obvious name in dialogue?
Sorry to keep on being the wet blanket and all, but I think this is going a bit too far.
[ March 22, 2002, 17:59: Message edited by: The_Tom ]
Posted by Boris (Member # 713) on :
I think The_Tom is right unless this question leads to a lot of pointless discussion/SWDAO, in which case it makes sense to either stop arguing about it or simply ask.
It's always better to post questions online and let the people involved answer at their convenience. Some of the producers have separate mailboxes for these kinds of questions already (I'm sure Mike Okuda does), in which case it's not really a problem.
Here's an idea: open up threads called "Questions For Doug Drexler", or "Questions For Gary Hutzel" and use them to post questions intended for that person, with a polite note that these are the things we'd really like to know, and that their input would be much appreciated. If the producers feel like it, they can always come in and answer a few questions at a time.
If not, at least we'll have a list ready the next time they do a chat or an interview -- they'll also know what kinds of things to do a Magazine article on, for instance.
[ March 22, 2002, 19:21: Message edited by: Boris ]
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Ohhh, Where is FrankG? We have to do some more SWDAOs!
And, what does Ronald B. Moore do? Isn't that him in that 'DS9 with crew and New Orleans class upside-down' pic?
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Apparently, Ronald B. Moore was a visual effects supervisor on TNG, VOY, and Generations. So says the Encyclopedia-2, anyway.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
So what does that entail? Anything like Homer's job at Scorpio's 'headquarters'?? in "You Only Move Twice"? Posted by Boris (Member # 713) on :
A VFX Supervisor, as far as I can tell, is basically responsible for the composition of a VFX shot, although there are assistants working out the details.
In the motion control days, it meant working with the actual models on a motion control rig, with perhaps a few motion control assistants. In the CGI days, it probably means sketching out and overseeing the work of the CGI companies, which sometimes have their own, internal supervisors. Even if the work is no longer hands-on, somebody with a lot of experience has to have the final say (all of the VFX supervisors have been around since Season 1 of TNG, with the exception of only Stipes who joined in late TNG, and MAYBE also Voyager's other supervisor, I don't recall...)
[ March 23, 2002, 20:09: Message edited by: Boris ]
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
It's as relevant as trying to track down the name of any model...
It's another name for the shiplists.
It's also specifically relevant to anyone who has been trying to say the Centaur is not an unique vessel.
-MMoM Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
I fail to see how the one existing version of the ship having two names would significantly add any logical recourse to any canonical argument about how many Centaurs 'fleet might have built. Its still one ship with two names. Youre reaching.
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
No, I would say the model represents two ships. The U.S.S. Whatever, NCC-42043, and the U.S.S. Centaur (NCC unknown). Doesn't this make more sense?
Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
No.
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
quote:We should make inqiries to find out what the Centaur model was named.
No, you should. If you're the one who really cares about this, then you should make the effort to contact people, just like I did.
The names on those ships were jokes. They were never meant to be seen or taken seriously. The script said "Centaur." One of these ships was randomly chosen to represent the Centaur. Didn't matter what label was on it, they could just as easily have chosen the Elkins or the unnamed Connie variant. It's no differnt from TPTB reusing the Excelsior stock footage to represent other ships.
And The_Tom is right. Bothering people about little piddly things like this is how Trekkies like us get a bad reputation. I'm just happy I got what I got. It was much, much more than I thought I'd get, & I'm satisfied. If you're not, then you should deal with it.
[ March 25, 2002, 12:29: Message edited by: Dukhat ]
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
double post
[ March 25, 2002, 12:12: Message edited by: Dukhat ]
Posted by Boris (Member # 713) on :
You should never, ever be happy with what you've got. Seek out alternative sources. Learn the names of everyone working on Star Trek -- maybe someone else can provide more specific information? Wade through age-old magazines and newsgroup postings for that one little elusive detail. You'd be surprised how many answers lie dormant, yet are easily accessible.
"Trifles make perfection, and perfection is no trifle." -- Michelangelo.
In this case, my question is whether the Centaur's registry has been identified onscreen? I found an old post by Mark Nguyen saying he did such an examination. Some people think it hasn't been seen -- Mark, can you clarify? If yes, then the Centaur NCC-42043 is canon and the other name is irrelevant (I personally think it's Duckats).
Otherwise, there's still the slight possibility that the model was relabeled after the episode was shot, and that the Fact Files simply took whatever registry was there. In this case I suggest NOT assuming that the Centaur had this registry. Assuming this will only spread the info throughout the Internet and make it more difficult to correct later.
[ March 25, 2002, 15:45: Message edited by: Boris ]
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
Dukkie, I would very much like to do it myself, but I have no access to anyone-of-consequence's e-mail addresses, and wouldn't know the first thing about finding them out. That's the reason why I posted, in order to find out if anyone else does. I'm asking for help.
And I agree totally with you about how the ship "became" the Centaur. They just used the model without oparticularly caring what was written on it. Which is why I say the model was built to represent one ship, and then just happened to be used for the Centaur as well. SO there are two ships. The first is whatever ship the model was labeled as, and the other is the Centaur.
BTW, I am not ashamed or embarressed to seek answers to whatever questions I may have, no matter how pointless they might seem to you. I'm not asking them because I'm trying to be annoying, I'm asking them because I want to know. It's obvious that the name can't be deciphered by peering and squinting at the photo, so we/I/whoever-wants-to-know should simply ask. It's a simple, direct, ordinary method of obtaining information.
-MMoM Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :
...except if every time anyone who had an inane question emailed it to DD, he'd quickly throw his hands in the air, begin screaming, start intentionally designing starships for Enterprise with 24th century markings, and never answer any questions of general interest to the fanbase ever again.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
I suspect they probably picked the Centaur because it's the most reasonable/best painted/lit, and generally more filmable than the others.
Posted by Dat (Member # 302) on :
quote:Originally posted by Sol System: I suspect they probably picked the Centaur because it's the most reasonable/best painted/lit, and generally more filmable than the others.
Obviously since the script called for a ship called Centaur.
I assume you mean they picked the Mirandized Excelsior plastic model for the reasons you stated. Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Yes.
"Ship that became known as the Centaur," if you wish.
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
quote:Which is why I say the model was built to represent one ship, and then just happened to be used for the Centaur as well. SO there are two ships. The first is whatever ship the model was labeled as, and the other is the Centaur.
I understand what you're saying, & I apologize if I came off as a bit harsh. But here's my point: What if Drexler comes back saying that the ship's name reads "U.S.S. Assfuck"? Are we really supposed to take this seriously? In a word, no. The purpose of naming & building these ships was in no way similar to what was done for BoBW. In that case, those ships were indeed supposed to represent what was written in the script, and also to represent "real" Starfleet ships. That's why Okuda labeled them as such, & put them in the Encyclopedia shiplist. These DS9 kitbashes were not supposed to have been taken seriously at all, names or designs. That's why it's not a big deal to me that a ship with an advanced Intrepid primary hull has old-fashioned Connie nacelles. That's also why it's not a big deal for me to know what was really written on the Centaur's hull.
Posted by Boris (Member # 713) on :
U.S.S. Alka-selsior is a serious name from the script?
[ March 26, 2002, 17:22: Message edited by: Boris ]
Posted by Spike (Member # 322) on :
quote:Originally posted by Boris: U.S.S. Alka-selsior is a serious name from the script?
BTW: Where did we get this name from?
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
Mike Okuda said it was on one of the Excelsior-prototype-models when they arrived from ILM. It's in the interview section of Bernd's article.
quote:I didn't do numbers on the McQuarrie or the George models. Bill [George] and/or his cohorts at ILM did some simple lettering on their models; I remember one of them was labeled the "Alka-selsior."
Note that he does NOT say it was labeled as such by any of his colleagues, (as frequently stated) but rather by the people at ILM.
-MMoM Posted by Dat (Member # 302) on :
Alka-selsior came from one of the Excelsior study models originally made for ST3. There is no U.S.S. in front of it and the name only came to light when we began recieving info on the models used for the Wolf 359 effects shots.
Posted by Boris (Member # 713) on :
They still could've relabeled it, but didn't. Actually, I wonder why they went to such pains to label the classes at all?
Anyway, it's not a big deal. I was looking at some possibilities in Google, and the name here could be Rugrats (most likely, made by Paramount), Duckats (gold coins, but it's not a proper name, so I don't know...), Rockats (a rockabilly band from the 50s), Cockats (a Scottish family name), etc.
Boris
[ March 26, 2002, 18:28: Message edited by: Boris ]
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
quote:U.S.S. Alka-selsior is a serious name from the script?
I was referring to the five study models Ed Miarecki was contracted to build, not the extraneous other old models thrown in just for effect.
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