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Is there something called a 'Deneva-class'?
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<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="1" width="95%" align="center"> <tr bgcolor="#234c6f"><td> <table border="0" width="100%" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="1"> <tr bgcolor="#234c6f"> <td colspan="2" align="left"> <font size="3" color="#FFFFFF" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>T O P I C ��� R E V I E W</b> </font></td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Cpt. Kyle Amasov</b> <br /><small>Member # 742</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2002,3,4,21,16,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">April 04, 2002</span> <span class="timeformat-0">09:16 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> The 'Tiny-Arcos-for-one-second-on-the-viewscreen'-episode was taped behind the episode I watched last night, and I checked that scene.<br /><br />Data said it had a crew of 2 (he detected two lifesigns). What happened to the ship? A warp containement malfunction? Nothing that would leave only two survivors. So does than mean we have a ship sized like a runabout?<br /><br />Besides that, Data mentioned them using a shuttle to get to the surface, not a lifeboat. And if I remember right, the ship seen on the surface was the reuse of Rasmussens ship, later also used as the Nenebek. <br />All this leads me to a vague theory: What if the Deneva-class is basically a Nenebek with some sort of attached module? Some sort of cockpit for a small ship? Freight containers could be attached to the whole vessel, too, to increase the capacity, but I don't see any reason to assume it was more than a <i>very</i> small vessel. (Maybe the thing from STIII? We never saw the nose section. And Nenebek was said to be very old. Dirgo used the old STIV-phaser-prop. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="smile.gif" /> )<br /><br />The Danube-class has a detachable nose section for emergency situations, too. So why not? <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Timo</b> <br /><small>Member # 245</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2002,3,4,22,30,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">April 04, 2002</span> <span class="timeformat-0">10:30 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> The E-D crew did regard the shuttle-thingy as a "lifeboat" in later dialogue, though. <br /><br />Sure, the detachable cockpit idea sounds fine to me, but I won't exclude a larger vessel from consideration, either. We've seen sparsely manned large ships before in freighter role - the Huron in TAS "Pirates of Orion" seemed to have a crew of only three, for example, and wasn't built in the "tiny tug plus huge cargo containers" style.<br /><br />Perhaps something in the size range of Kasidy Yates' Xhosa? Or a tad smaller, with landing capability? And if the "merchantman" model really was used for filming the brief "Legacy" VFX, then this could indeed be the exact identity of the ship. Or then we could postulate a ship that looks roughly like the "merchantman", perhaps with a half-saucer at the bow and with small outboard nacelles somewhere to keep the Starfleet look.<br /><br />Timo Saloniemi <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Cpt. Kyle Amasov</b> <br /><small>Member # 742</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2002,3,4,22,50,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">April 04, 2002</span> <span class="timeformat-0">10:50 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> First question: Can we be sure it was the Merchantman-model?<br /><br />Second question: Can we concider the Merchantman to be a 'Starfleet vessel' (meaning Starfleet-origin or used by Starfleet like the Antares) or not? <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>AndrewR</b> <br /><small>Member # 44</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2002,3,4,22,56,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">April 04, 2002</span> <span class="timeformat-0">10:56 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> The Merchantman from ST:III only seemed to have a crew of two or three...<br /><br />And the Danube class runabout's front section could detach as a life boat - If I remember correctly.<br /><br />Andrew <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Dukhat</b> <br /><small>Member # 341</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2002,3,5,7,44,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">April 05, 2002</span> <span class="timeformat-0">07:44 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> The rumor that the Merchantman model was used for the Arcos is one of the most unsubstantiated rumors about starship models since the "Constitution with Constellation upper nacelles" description of the Challenger class. That's not to say it isn't true, just unsubstantiated. I personally don't think they used the Merchantman, but damned if I know what they <i>did</i> use, since the only screencap on the internet basically shows nothing of use.<br /><br />Of course, I like to think that a new model was used simply because the Arcos was shown so far away. We've had countless examples of this when someone builds a kitbashed ship out of plastic model parts, knowing that they'd only be shown in the distance (BoBW; A Time To Stand; the disposable-razor nacelled ship in "111000110, etc.). Especially if the ship is supposed to be shown as damaged or destroyed. It would only take an hour to glue together some random model parts and call it a new ship. They didn't even have to label it, since it was so far in the background.<br /><br />Here's the theories about the Arcos I've heard so far, based on what people here say they've seen:<br /><br />1. It's the Merchantman.<br />2. It's the stardrive section of the Enterprise-D.<br />3. It's a hastily-put-together kitbash model.<br />4. It's a floating piece of kung pau chicken.<br /><br />Take your pick. <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>CaptainMike</b> <br /><small>Member # 709</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2002,3,5,9,30,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">April 05, 2002</span> <span class="timeformat-0">09:30 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> mmmm, chicken <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Cpt. Kyle Amasov</b> <br /><small>Member # 742</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2002,3,5,10,57,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">April 05, 2002</span> <span class="timeformat-0">10:57 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> ^^^^<br /><br />Forget the chicken, it's number 3. <br /><br />From what I've seen, I'd say it was a relatively small vessel with two oversized modules left and right of the ship. There was a ship that came to my mind, but I didn't remember where I had seen it. Bu here's the picture:<br /><br /> <img src="http://www.stguardian.to/alien/alien/lysiansentrypod01.jpg" alt="" /><br /><br />The Lysian attack drones. I'm absoulutely sure they used them several times, not only as lysian ships. It could be this vessel, turned upside down. <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>TSN</b> <br /><small>Member # 31</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2002,3,5,12,53,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">April 05, 2002</span> <span class="timeformat-0">12:53 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> The upside-down version of that ship was used as the mercenaries' ship in "Starship Mine". <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Dukhat</b> <br /><small>Member # 341</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2002,3,5,13,48,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">April 05, 2002</span> <span class="timeformat-0">01:48 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="http://www.neutralzone.de/AlienOther/TerroristScoutShip01.jpg" alt="" /><br /><br /> <img src="http://neutralzone.future.easyspace.com/Federation/StarFleet/Deneva02.jpg" alt="" /><br /><br />"Legacy" was broadcast in October 1990. "Conundrum" was broadcast in February 1992. "Starship Mine" was broadcast in March 1993.<br /><br />Anyway, I'd have to say that this ship is a much better guess than the Merchantman, based on what we see. It looks vaguely runabout-ish, has visible nacelles, and is small enough for a two-man crew. It's also not unreasonable to assume that the terrorists in "Starship Mine" used a Deneva to escape. And it looks way more Starfleetish than the Merchantman. Unfortunately, there's no easy answer as to why the Lysians were using the same design, unless having the ship turned upside down was a way to depict a different ship...<br /><br />Kyle: You have the scene on tape. Do you have screencap-making ability?<br /> <br /> <small>[ April 05, 2002, 15:39: Message edited by: Dukhat ]</small> <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Akula</b> <br /><small>Member # 319</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2002,3,5,15,56,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">April 05, 2002</span> <span class="timeformat-0">03:56 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> What's the disposable-razor nacelled ship? <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Spike</b> <br /><small>Member # 322</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2002,3,5,16,26,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">April 05, 2002</span> <span class="timeformat-0">04:26 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">there's no easy answer as to why the Lysians were using the same design</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Well, it's harder to explain why a Delta Quadrant species has Romulan ships. <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>TSN</b> <br /><small>Member # 31</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2002,3,5,16,40,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">April 05, 2002</span> <span class="timeformat-0">04:40 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <blockquote>"What's the disposable-razor nacelled ship?"</blockquote><br />A ship model made partly out of disposable razors. IIRC, it was in "11001001", but I could be wrong. They talked about it on "Reading Rainbow" in the Trek-themed episode. <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>J</b> <br /><small>Member # 608</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2002,3,5,22,30,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">April 05, 2002</span> <span class="timeformat-0">10:30 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> That certainly does look like it has disposable razor blades on it. <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>AndrewR</b> <br /><small>Member # 44</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2002,3,6,3,27,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">April 06, 2002</span> <span class="timeformat-0">03:27 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> The Razor ship was a nifty-looking little spacedock ship from Starbase 74 in "11001001" <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Cpt. Kyle Amasov</b> <br /><small>Member # 742</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2002,3,6,4,50,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">April 06, 2002</span> <span class="timeformat-0">04:50 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> ^^^^<br /><br />The shot was reused for 'Remember Me', Starbase 133. From this point of view, we have at least two appearances, meaning this was not a unique reconfiguration.<br /><br />Behind the scenes, I have no problem with the ship being older as it's first 'real' use on-screen (as a recognizable design like the lysian ships). They said they built the Pasteur long before they really used the vessel. And the Daedalus on Sisko's desk or the second Nebula-Melbourne were never used, for example.<br />And for another on-screen explanation, maybe the lysians bought the hulls from Starfleet. Obviously, they also sell Antares-designs. And if the ship ever appeared in the Delta-Quadrant, let's say what I always use to say in such a case: coincidence. Later VFX-works include many new designs, but the lack of new models at the beginning of the show makes it unavoidable to reuse some older ships. So I'd simply say we don't go into detail here, whether it's a former Romulan scout, an Antares-freighter, the bajoran triangular ship or whatever.<br /> <br /> <small>[ April 06, 2002, 04:52: Message edited by: Cpt. Kyle Amasov ]</small> <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Timo</b> <br /><small>Member # 245</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2002,3,7,22,59,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">April 07, 2002</span> <span class="timeformat-0">10:59 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Sounds good. If the Lysians were using UFP-bought tech, it would help explain why their enemies knew enough of Starfleet hardware to pull their little trick on the E-D. They needn't spy on Starfleet - it would suffice if they spied on the Lysians and their ex-Starfleet hardware.<br /><br />And considering how spaced-out our heroes were in "Conundrum", I wouldn't expect them to yell "Deneva class Starfleet ships ahead!" or anything even if that was the real identity of the laser drones. Also, there are plenty of examples of known freighters of advanced race A being used in military roles by primitive race B (the "Ensign Ro" style freighters were "warships" in TNG "Half a Life", for example).<br /><br />Yeah, I'm all for calling this lil' ship the Deneva class. Not that I'd be 100% sure this was really the model used in "Legacy". It's just that the model makes for a damn good Deneva design...<br /><br />(However, if the "Legacy" ship is this model seen from dead ahead, then what is that bright spot below the ship centerline? To me, the "Legacy" pic looks like four spots: two nacelles, one center spot, and something below the center spot.) <br /><br />Timo Saloniemi <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>AndrewR</b> <br /><small>Member # 44</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2002,3,7,22,59,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">April 07, 2002</span> <span class="timeformat-0">10:59 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> The Razor ship <B>isn't</B> the same as the Mercenary Get-away ship/Lysian ships. I think there is a picture of the Razor pic floating around the internet somewhere.<br /><br />Andrew <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Timo</b> <br /><small>Member # 245</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2002,3,8,2,37,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">April 08, 2002</span> <span class="timeformat-0">02:37 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Yeah - try <a href="http://www.stguardian.to/fed/shuttlesb74/index.html" target="_blank">this page</a> for a closer look...<br /><br />Timo Saloniemi <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Cpt. Kyle Amasov</b> <br /><small>Member # 742</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2002,3,8,6,32,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">April 08, 2002</span> <span class="timeformat-0">06:32 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> I know. The one is a workbee, the other one is a freighter. Maybe I should have mentioned it when I begun to write about the Lysian ship. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="smile.gif" /> <br /> </font> </td></tr> </table></td></tr></table> <br /> <br />
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