ok i've been wondering...when is the real origination of the akira class vessel, i mean it is obviously still in use and is somewhat older looking than most other current starships, so whats going on? Is it just a extremly well rounded ship or what? it shows on DITL it says that it began constuction in 2363 or so and personally i think its design is a little more shall we say weathered then that preticular era, so i want to know, if this ship is relitivly new then why such primitive naccelle design not to mention the saucer looks alot like the NX classes.
[ April 09, 2002, 12:30: Message edited by: koy'peled Oy'tio ]
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
*le sigh*... Here we go again...
Look. If the Akira looks as old or older than the E-D to you, then you're with the arguable majority that agrees that NCCs are meant to be in chronological order and therefore that the ship is in fact older than the E-D, and were in existence back in the 2350s. If you think it looks newer than the E-D, then you're with a smaller but vocal minority that believes that the ships are in fact newer based mostly on their appearance, and that NCCs therefore make no sense whatsoever. Alternatively, you're with an even smaller minority that thinks that the Akira must be newer simply because there's no way that a ship that is so much cooler to you than the E-D could be older.
Take your pick. There hasn't been a resolution here, in many, many years of argument.
Mark
[ April 08, 2002, 18:16: Message edited by: Mark Nguyen ]
Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
I just wish the "teh Ak1rA lQQks xx-f0xxing asweom-xx eso ti cAnt B olD!!!!!!!!" crowd were less vocal and more of a minority
Posted by David Templar (Member # 580) on :
And I wish that the people who thinks Akira is old because her NCC numbers says so would be less vocal and more of a minority. I mean, she was designed to be a new ship for ST:FC, why does people have to invent stupid background stories just because of a ship chronology system that has been shown as constantly unreliable says so?
Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
because they want to
seriously, i dont think its a big issue, but it just looks design wise (escape pods nonwithstanding), like it falls between the Ambassador and Galaxy in evolution, but thats my opinion.
I just cant stand loud Akira fans who wont believe anything else except their ship the the "ultimate battlecruiser, fightercarrier, escort destroyer that could take on 3 borg cubes and then kick the defiants and enterprises ass!"
bullshit like that is whats killing Star Trek
Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :
As far as we know, she was designed to be a, well, ship. Not a new one. Not an old one.
But the very fact that the registries of the FC ships are 5xxxx or 6xxxx and not 873467346387432 or 1203 seems to suggest that some thought was put into them and they didn't land in the decade-or-two-pre-TNG range by pure coincidence.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Knowing how much thought sometimes goes into things like what the ships will be called and how old they will be (I believe there were several rounds of this for Voyager) it would very much surprise me if the producers meant the Akira or any of the "new" ships we see in FC to be newer chronologically than the Ent-D. The new Enterprise was the New ship. The big technological marvel. The State of the Art. I doubt they would introduce that ship and intend all the other ones that were flying around to be fresh off the drawing tables as well.
I'm confused as to why these questions get asked as though there's a rock solid answer. I mean, no one on any of the shows has sat down and discussed the Akira's design history in detail. All you're going to get is people's opinions on stuff like this.
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
However, every now and then we run into a gold nugget of information that counts for more than idle speculation. Mike Okuda might say that the ships at Wolf 359 were intended to be contemporaries to the E-D, or Rick Sternbach might say that the E-D was intended to have a Captain's Yacht, or Doug Drexler might reveal that the NX-01 has multi-stage plasma accelerator thingamabobs.
None of the above tidbits would have been evident from the episodes alone, yet they are taken as "Trek facts" nowadays. Sternbach published the Yacht thing in a book, Okuda emailed about the Wolf 359 thing, Drexler gave an interview. People "in the know" are essential in relaying this information forward, since few people actually buy all the books or read all the magazines or websites.
So please ask away. You never know what you might learn...
(So, any new gold nuggets about the Akira, anyone?)
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by Chris StarShade (Member # 786) on :
With regard to the NCC issue, note that the USS Constellation (the Constitution class one) Is NCC-1017; whereas the USS Constitution is NCC-1700.
If the NCCs are in order, that requires USS Constitution to be at least the second vessel to bear the name, since the original Constitution would have had to be an NCC less than 1017.
Of course, where would they get an NCC less than 1017, and how many ships does that make? Erm... more than Starfleet has resources to make perhaps? Naw, we got enough yachts in the real world it couldn't possibly be that... though it makes you wonder why the Constellation hadn't already been retired...
Posted by U//Magnus (Member # 239) on :
*Why the fuck has this topic been brought up yet again? It's like the new Defiant length argument. Jesus.*
teh Ak1rA lQQks xx-f0xxing asweom-xx eso ti cAnt B olD!!!!!!!!
Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
this is an exercise in futility.
we know that registries are not derived in an exactly chronological manner, as the Constallation and Prometheus show us.
But we also know that, under Okuda's guidance, TNG registries are supposed to show a ships general era (thats why he made a stink about the prometheus, it didnt fit his scheme)
The Akira does fit his scheme, he didnt make a stink over it. Therefore he approves of it being, chronologically, from the era of other 6xxxx vessels
(which is only a difference of about 10 years.. i dont see why it makes such a big difference whether its 2355 or 2365.. the ships probably still have a 75-80 year service lifetime anyway, and might even still be in construction either way.. who the fuck cares?)
So, in my tally of this stupid-ass contest > CaptainMike gets 1,000,000 points for being Him > Dolph Lundgren and William Shatner are tied at 775,047 points > U//Magnus get 4,702 points for pointing fun at our foibles > Chrissy Starshade gets 10 points for pointing out something that everyone has known since they were seven. NCC-1017, you say? > The Tommy gets 42 points for getting the registries NCC-1203 and NCC-873467346387432 stuck in my head > Aban Runey, voice of reason, gets 27 points for a good post, as does Davey Templar, and 27 points to Timo for his age old suggestion of just 'ask the guys who are in charge and/or designed it' > KoySpedOyVeyo gets negative -3,000 points for contributing an annoying question and nothing else
Posted by Vogon Poet (Member # 393) on :
Go Mikey. 8)
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
I award myself 1 point, for whining about why I'm not on Mike's stupid-ass contest list.
And Koypelwhatever, I suggest you stop posting lots of images when you start threads. In addition to burning up bandwidth, we *know* what the Akira class looks like. That, and the pictures don't serve any real purpose in your argument.
Mark
Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
Mark gets 32 points because i accidentally scrolled past him.
KoyOyOy loses 12 more points for the images, which i forgot to tally before (but gains 5 points because one of the images was useful to me)
[ April 09, 2002, 12:31: Message edited by: CaptainMike ]
Posted by koy'peled Oy'tio (Member # 796) on :
*KoyOyOy looks at f*cked up posts and wonders wtf these people do in their spare time and tosses the -2983 points in the trash*
That’s great let's just give each other points for new threads instead of intelligibly contributing to the massively over-rated dung heap of information on the internet. Now you know why i post images. (Something to look at instead of staring at your computer screen like some deer in the middle of a highway in a state nobody cares about.) P.s. about the point thing and me and the -3000, if you think this is an annoying question and i get minus 3000 points then i think that a fool isn’t as bad as the fool who follows him and makes up some stupid tally just to prove a point that could have been to lines long. (And yes I’m proving a point by writing a long reply, but I’m only breaking down my original statement so it isn’t quite as offensive and breaks through the profoundly deficient intellectuals.
Posted by Siegfried (Member # 29) on :
I believe the point that is trying to be made here, in the usual style of diplomacy that is everpresent here, is that we know next to nothing about the Akira-class. All we know is that it seen in First Contact, Voyager's "Message in a Bottle", and as background fodder in Voyager's "Endgame" and the Deep Space Nine's Dominion War storyline ("Tears of the Prophets" and "What You Leave Behind" spring immediately to mind).
From what we can readily tell, the Akira-class Thunderchild had a registry of NCC-6xxxx. It has two warp nacelles and weapons pod. There's a notch at the front of the saucer, and the deflector dish sits in a bulge on the saucer underside. This pretty much sums up the canon knowledge of the Akira-class.
The only other points on the Akira are the ones that range from semi-canonical to "Proof that not everyone should be allowed on the 'Net." Alex Jaeger, who designed the Akira-class, has given us some background information on the ship. He says that the shuttlebay spans the entire length of the saucer and that it has 15 torpedo tubes. We have the Fact Files which gives us more Akira class ship names and registries. And there's some guy out there who believes that Section 31 uses Akira-class battleships exclusively for their shadow wars.
Everything that's known about this class of ships is already known (and it isn't a great deal of information to begin with). We've gone over the same thing numerous times, and they devolve into chronological registry battles and fanboy masturbatory fantasy screaming matches. In summation, all we'd be doing is "contributing to the massively over-rated dung heap of information on the internet."
Posted by First of Two (Member # 16) on :
quote:intelligibly contributing to the massively over-rated dung heap of information on the internet.
Koi (isn't that a kind of goldfish) loses 47 more points for actually believing that he (or anybody else here) is actually capable of doing the above, as regards starship registry numbers. All the statements are speculation, and all the speculation is unfounded, therefore, = DUNG.
I award myself 500 points for not commenting in this thread until now, but deduct 250 points for commenting in this thread AT ALL.
Posted by J (Member # 608) on :
Don't ask Alex about the NCC of the Akira, he put a 4 digit number on the original design.
As for the scheme... I still hold to the chrono NCC arguement but with the new briefing on Voyager let's take a deeper look.
If you wish we can use the final spaceframe tests for Galaxy, Voyager, and Defiant [2356, prior 2368, and 2370/2372 respectively]. In my reading of the TNG TM, the Galaxy has a period between 2342 and 2357 where the NCCs could be assigned. From the Voyager specs the period is 2361 until 2371 [when it was launched, we don't have the Intrepid's NCC, but that doesn't matter], however since the class' final design wasn't made until after 2368, I'm assuming that 2368 is the earliest [and looking back at the TNG TM let's assume the same for the Galaxy, so 2349]. And finally the Defiant which officially started in 2366, which was then redesigned, and didn't finish systems integration until 2370. The ship wasn't given to DS9 until 2372.
There is some inconsistancy here, the only way to solve it is to assume that Starfleet does not issue registry numbers at any set time period [not order, not design freeze, not construction start, not testing phase, not commission], the only stipulation Starfleet has is that the ship have a registry before it gets launched. This solves the problem with the Defiant and Voyager's NCC. If you even see one, technically the Intrepid class didn't start construction until after 2368 [when the design was frozen], but the Defiant was frozen in 2366 or 2367, certainly before Voyager. The ships were also launched apart--- and in order of NCC. So, when the class project started has no heavy bearing on NCC [only that the project started some years prior].
The three best points to give a ship a registry is construction start, testing phase, or commission. It would seem that NX vessels would be more likely to get their numbers at construction start or the testing phase, while production ships may have to wait until commissioning paperwork. --- This continues to help explain how the Intrepid can be an older project and the Defiant a newer project. Differences in size and advances in technology may also provide reasons why Defiant has the lower NCC [ok, this one is a bit more arguable, I concide, but looking at the gelpacks and variable warp compared to phaser cannons, over powered powerplant, and integrated hull design--- I think the Intrepid eventually gets more advanced hands down].
Now, plug in the Akira [or any slightly pre-TNG design like Nebula, New Orleans, Chenneye, Springfield, Steamrunner, Norway, or Sabre]. What we have left is an entirely probable situation. Personally I never saw the Intrepid being earlier than 2365, but 4 years hasn't made a difference to me. There is no big inconsistancy between Voyager and Defiant to make chrono NCCs impossible. With a lead off of almost 14 years between when the Galaxy Project started and the Galaxy NX was commissioned there is more than enough time for amount of those ships to be launched--- even when you consider that some of those ships must be launched before 2350 [the New Orleans being one for the Setlik 3 events].
So... nothing has changed--- Chrono still stands as the best theory in my mind.
Posted by J (Member # 608) on :
BTW, how many points do I get?
Posted by Wraith (Member # 779) on :
OK; I think that the Akira age issue is never going to be completely solved; it's unlikely we're going to see much of the 24th century again anyway. I think it probably is older than the Sovreign and is not a new ship (as of FC). It bears no resemblance to any previous design stream (e.g. the BOBW ships were clearly related to the Galaxy). As for the registaries, there's an interesting idea on the Ships of the Starfleet downloads here. It states that the codes are given in blocks to each shipyard and numbers are assigned as the ships come off the line at each yard e.g. NCC-56001- 57000 to Utopia Planitia and NCC-57001-58000 to San Fransisco.This would allow the registaries to be chronological but still allow for some discrepancies.
Posted by Ritten (Member # 417) on :
mmmm, can't be that old..... it hasn't even been built yet......
Posted by Proteus (Member # 212) on :
The Akira is newer. It was designed later, it was designed to be a new powerful ship. Its the CGI people that could give a shit about useless numbers on the hulls of starships. If it looks new, has 15 torp launchers, and so on.. its new.
End of story.
Posted by Dat (Member # 302) on :
Koy, didn't I tell you to calm down? You're taking the entire situation TOO personally. The others do make valid points, but mingled in their points happened to be their sense of humor as well. Perhaps if you actually do follow some of their advice, they would tone down on what you think is very offensive.
[ April 09, 2002, 19:49: Message edited by: Dat ]
Posted by CaptAlabin (Member # 733) on :
I would go the idea of assigning the registries during the spaceframe or at least planning stages after the first ship is approved. Then there these discrepencies like the Yeager's, Constellation's and others. I put the Yeager Class USS Yeager as a test vehicle that was later put into production like the Excelsior. Different physical upgrades could bring another ship into the same class like the Constellation NCC-1017 or the Constitutions are just plan old.
Posted by Malnurtured Snayer (Member # 411) on :
quote:If it looks new
Compared to ... ? It doesn't look new, it looks different. Big difference, and you're confusing the two.
Posted by Siegfried (Member # 29) on :
::sigh:: I'll be in the lounge getting drunk and hitting on the cute bartender. Anyone care to join me?
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
How does "more powerful" == "newer"? By that logic, the Constitution must be much much newer than the Danube.
Posted by Vogon Poet (Member # 393) on :
I'm conflicted as to how to contribute to this thread and maximise the points I'd get. Would I get them for conforming to type, and insulting the newbie who a) posted a thread on an old and well-worn topic, and then b) erupting in fanboyish outrage when we fail to respond with anything less than geekish enthusiasm? Or would I get more points for NOT doing that? 8)
Posted by Malnurtured Snayer (Member # 411) on :
20,000 points to Vogon Poet for no particular reason what-so-ever.
An additional 60,000 points for naked pics of Kate. Subtract 59,995 points if he is also naked in picture.
TSN gets 100,000 points for nixpicking Rob's post in the Flameboard.
I get 500,000,000,000 points for being a DeerKiller.
Hah.
Posted by CaptAlabin (Member # 733) on :
Who's kate?
Posted by Vogon Poet (Member # 393) on :
My fianc�e. Who I'm marrying in three weeks. Jeff has this weird obsession with her, he has this compunction to drop her name whenever possible. It's actually becoming quite tedious, verging on creepy in fact, and definitely an intrusion into my personal life.
And there's as much chance of him or anyone else seeing any naked photos of her as there is of Omega seeing that pic of LOA in a bikini which Tim has. 8)
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
If you only knew...
Posted by Peregrinus (Member # 504) on :
*belatedly joins Sigfreid in the lounge and mixes him a Suntan Lotion (an ounce each of Bailey's Irish Cream and Captain Morgan Rum)*
--Jonah
P.S. You can find a full synopsis of my stance on registries over in the "TOS ships" thread...
Posted by Balaam Xumucane (Member # 419) on :
Gimme one of those, a 'photon torpedo' and a 'drooling fanboy'.
Good morning, hangover. Posted by Fedaykin Supastar (Member # 704) on :
u know i hope Koi-boy (or girl, i wouldnt really know) isnt another Darkstar....whether that was alright to bring up i wouldnt know either.
anyway, lets add more to the dungheap while i still can: [try not to respond to the ideas put forward in this post just think about them] this tests the limits of On-screen Canon;[hypothetical situation] what if in the final version of an episode or a movie, for some obscure reason, there is an editing mistake and something makes it into the final version which completely contradicts what we know about the current Trek Universe. Do we take this as the 'truth' since it was said in dialogue? plus wat if a filmcrew member was seen on screen (by mistake, naturally) is it Canon, that such a person exists on the enterprise.?
just something to think about try not to overreact, if this turns into something that isnt fun anymore i dont think its worth commenting.
Buzz
--awards himself -100,000 points for making such a pointless post
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
"...if a filmcrew member was seen on screen (by mistake, naturally) is it Canon, that such a person exists on the enterprise.?"
Only as much so as that the E-D has at least one boom-mic installed in it.
Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
i was just wondering what Koy actually thinks about the Akira-class himself.. is he just trolling up a controversial topic for shits and giggles, or does he have an opinion?
Posted by Vogon Poet (Member # 393) on :
Perhaps KoiCarp'calledOtto is merely using us to plug his book. How humilating, to be reduced to the level of a daytime chat show. . .
(but on the other hand. . .)
Coming up next: Jeff Benson wil be showing us some interesting ways to kick roadkilled deer, and Frank Gerratana will be sending us a live report from the beaches of Tahiti.
Posted by Malnurtured Snayer (Member # 411) on :
It is best to leave dead deer alone. Better to inform the local police department so they can dispose of the body.
When hitting the deer, you want to strike it hard with the strongest part of your Jeep: usually, the front grille. Depending on your speed, an impact won't damage your vehicle, but will provide a killing blow to the deer.
It is best to hit the deer at the side. A head blow can be bloody.
If you don't want to hit a deer, be careful: deer don't run from headlights or moving objects. Repeated honks of your horn should be enough to entice the deer to move it's fat ass.
Mounting a computer-controlled 9mm MP5 to a drop-open slot on the engine compartment can also help kill deer without involving actual impact with the deer and your Jeep. I suggest the compact (non-stock) model, with CTC "Smart" Progressive Targeting Chip z3400, and fifty-round capacity magazine loaded with a mix of "hollow-points" and "exploding" rounds with mechanical mag-switch and infa-red targeting system (extra).
Now, depending on the time of day of your kill, you may choose to take photographs of your 'victim.' I suggest a Mark-VII Cannon (built in flash) All Purpose Camera with auto-zoom, stabilizer, and night-vision. After pictures are developed, mail them to Kate c/o Vogon Poet, London, England.
[ April 11, 2002, 10:26: Message edited by: Malnurtured Snayer ]
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
quote:what if in the final version of an episode or a movie, for some obscure reason, there is an editing mistake and something makes it into the final version which completely contradicts what we know about the current Trek Universe.
They don't have to make mistakes. They're doing this just fine in regular production.
Posted by Fedaykin Supastar (Member # 704) on :
i ocmpletely agree with u Dukhat, the points i put up were just for the sake of argument, and possibly shutting up this thread
neways, on a side-note (i[m sure its been mentioned b4 but) has the Enterprise-E been confirmed as Sovereign class in dialogue?
Buzz
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
No.
Also, I don't recommend using a cannon on the deer. You'll just make an even bigger mess.
Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
Thrill of the hunt, TSN, thrill of the hunt. Jeff wants to make a big mess...
Posted by Wraith (Member # 779) on :
If you tie the deer to the cannon's barrel (just over the big hole), it's even better. Obviously this requires quite a few people to move the deer, but believe me the end result is worth it.
Posted by Malnurtured Snayer (Member # 411) on :
Cannon? Cannon? No one said anything about a cannon ...
Posted by David Templar (Member # 580) on :
Stop giving him ideas, damnit. I can see the headlines now, "Man kills deer, self, two passerbys with home-made howtizer".
[ April 12, 2002, 15:46: Message edited by: David Templar ]
Posted by Malnurtured Snayer (Member # 411) on :
Are you kidding?
Man Eliminates Deer Population of Northern Baltimore County with Howitzer.
Thousands of Cockeysville and Timonium residents feared dead in deer bloodbath.
[ April 12, 2002, 17:44: Message edited by: Malnurtured Snayer ]
Posted by Rogue Starship (Member # 756) on :
You know, I think it is really rude to go off and talk about something else that is off topic like ways to kill a deer. If you want to do that then start another Post! We are suppose to be talking about starships and tech, not bull that has no relevance on the topic at hand.
And for the smart ass out there, I know that what we argue about is fictional. It is just a hell of alot of fun and should be looked on as a hobbie.
Rogue Starship
Posted by Siegfried (Member # 29) on :
As has been pointed out numerous times before (particularly pages 1 and 2 of this thread), we've been through this discussion several times before and there is still nothing new to add to the topic. Therefore, there isn't a topic to stay on since we summed up all there really is to know early on.
Posted by Dat (Member # 302) on :
RS: how long have you been here? I think by now you should have noticed that most of the topics degenerate or go off-topic and that what we end up talking about has absolutely no relevance to the original thought or question.
Posted by David Templar (Member # 580) on :
We could talk about the effectiveness of an Akira as a deer killing platform, if there were deers in space. Heh, space deers.
Posted by Malnurtured Snayer (Member # 411) on :
Jesus. That would rack up the body-damage pretty quick ...
... nothing more embarassing for a junior lieutenant on his first bridge watch then having the ship hit a deer Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
xxx***xxx*** TEH AK1rA CALSS CaN ***KkIIlLlL*** a MILLLiun deEr w1HT iTs -47- QqUanTMU ToRPeDOE TOObz!!! adn the BoRg 2!!!! lololololololololol ***xxx***xxx!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by akb1979 (Member # 557) on :
CaptainMike, can I have whatever you're on please? Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
marijuana and dayquil, man... marijuana and dayquil. You guys are just lucky I don't/can't drink anymore
Posted by Proteus (Member # 212) on :
quote:Originally posted by Malnurtured Snayer:
quote:If it looks new
Compared to ... ? It doesn't look new, it looks different. Big difference, and you're confusing the two.
Fine, in my opinion, its shape, looks, and color looks NEWER then most other ships in First Contact or other series. (excluding the Promie)
I belive the Akira is a newer and more powerful vessel then the tech guides say.
Posted by Malnurtured Snayer (Member # 411) on :
I believe you're wrong and talking out of your ass, no offense.
The Akira looks different from all those ships, didn't you yourself say that? You decide whats newer based on, what? Very little, I'd say. Sorry, Proteus, but you see a ship that looks different and you decide that it must be newer!
Well, ok. Fine. I'd do that cute little UM fanboy typing, but I'm not very good at it.
Posted by David Templar (Member # 580) on :
Or we could just consider the fact that it's newly created especially for ST:FC...
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
So was the Phoenix.
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by Wraith (Member # 779) on :
I can't see Starfleet being too impressed with any Starship ramming a deer:
Admiral: Captain, what the hell is that huge red stain on the front of your ship?
Posted by David Templar (Member # 580) on :
quote:Originally posted by Timo: So was the Phoenix.
We were actually shown that the Pheonix was old, unless that whole time-travel thing was just a Borg-induced psychadalic mass hallucination.
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