I'll drop this in here too as everybody seems to have an opinion on just about everything.
While going through the dvd of "Journey to Babel" and getting screenies of the ship I heard James T. utter this line.
"On my order fire Photon torpedos 2, 4 and 6." And they fire in rapid succession.
I know what's out there, Franz Josephs stuff (not all that accurate to the studio model in my opinion), Steven Coles stuff from his game and various other 3rd party tech manuals. But this says more to me than any of that stuff.
It could be 2 launchers loaded with 3 torps each. It could be three launchers with 2 torps each. Or even a whopping 6 of them. I really doubt that they could reload one tube fast enough to shoot two giving you one tube that shot one and a second that shot 2. And that last one wouldn't make sense as the numbering scheme wouldn't seem right.
Just food for discussion if anybody is interested.
My next one will be the phrase "midships phaser" and it's location.
[ April 27, 2002, 08:43: Message edited by: Anduril ]
Posted by YrdMehc (Member # 417) on :
mmmmm, WTF is a / are screenies???? Sounds like something out of a no budget Z-movie....
If, according to the TNG:TM, the E-D can load 10 at a time, then it is possible that more than 1 could be loaded in a launcher on the E-nil.
screenies..... lol
Posted by Boris (Member # 713) on :
This doesn't tell us anything about how many torpedoes there are, only about the number of launchers.
The simplest explanation is that there are two launchers with torpedoes numbered like this:
Launcher 1 Launcher 2
1 2 3 4 5 6
That's exactly how the Defiant's quantum torpedoes are numbered -- the first pair to be fired is numbered 1 and 2, the second pair 3 and 4, etc. (as seen in "For the Uniform.").
Kirk was probably firing torpedoes from one launcher only when he gave that order. You can't have too many launchers on the Ent-nil, because the VFX always show them leaving essentially the same location (though I believe I've seen some torpedoes fire more to the left of the dome than others).
Boris
[ April 27, 2002, 09:26: Message edited by: Boris ]
Posted by Anduril (Member # 654) on :
Screenies are screenshots.
I'm taking them to remake my bussards. Amongst other things.
I'd agree with the 2 launchers so far...
Posted by YrdMehc (Member # 417) on :
errrr, where is VPchops and his Barrier at????
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Y'know, Ritten, this is the "Starships & Technology" board. If you think anyone who talks about Treknology is a fanboy, you might want to consider browsing someplace else.
Posted by YrdMehc (Member # 417) on :
I haven't said that.... just the 'screenies' thing has me......
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Actually, I thought he said fire photons 2, 4 and 6 - i.e. those particular torps - I saw JtB not too long ago...
Posted by Anduril (Member # 654) on :
I wrote it down as it happened so I'm pretty sure I got it right. I can always pop the DVD back in to verify but it's not a big deal
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Well, I might be wrong - but you might have THOUGHT "launchers"!
Go pop it back in! That's if you want to! Posted by The359 (Member # 37) on :
A scene during one of the battles in Star Trek II showed the torpedo bay with a plaque in the back saying TORP BAY 4. We had seen this identical room before when Kirk and co. entered as well as during Spock's funeral as TORP BAY 2.
Posted by Anduril (Member # 654) on :
Well since it's right at the beginning of scene 6 it's easy enough to find.
The quote is as I put it above.
You can add "Widest possible spread" right after it too.
I'm not thinking that I "heard" launchers. What I'm musing is how many launchers it may have based on what he said and the topedo loadout within them.
Posted by Saiyanman Benjita (Member # 122) on :
Isn't the torpedo launcher in TWOK in the "neck" of the ship? If so, then there may be four bays (2 forward, 2 aft). As for TOS, they shot out of the saucer, so 2 would probably be most accurate. However, there may also be one or two under the shuttle bay in the aft of the ship, but that's only a suggestion.
Posted by darkwing_duck1 (Member # 790) on :
quote:Originally posted by Saiyanman Benjita: Isn't the torpedo launcher in TWOK in the "neck" of the ship? If so, then there may be four bays (2 forward, 2 aft).
Nice idea, but no. Look at the ship again. No external "ports" for aft firing torps in the neck.
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
There's another possible location for the "torp bay 4" - namely, the very same location that was used in TOS. A bay situated at the bottom of the saucer would have externally identifiable torpedo tubes (the rectangles surrounding the sensor dome, or at least the forward-pointing rectangle), airlocks to port and starboard (as required by the interior set), and a logical positioning considering that the pre-refit ship used to have torpedo launchers here. This would also mean that Miranda class ships have torpedo launchers even when they do not have the dorsal torpedo pod - a requirement stemming from "Emissary" and the podless Saratoga which nevertheless armed her torpedoes when going into battle.
Then again, IIRC, "Bay 4" was used for Spock's burial scenes, and was thus firmly identified with the exact same bay Kirk had used for boarding the vessel originally - the bay that was just as firmly established as "Bay 2".
For the TOS ship, I suspect a single launch tube with a revolver-type, six-chambered launch mechanism, situated below the saucer. There's no real evidence for aft-facing launchers in TOS.
As for the "amidships" phasers, the likeliest location IMHO would be the underbelly of the secondary hull, since the refitted ship certainly has phaser emitters there.
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by Guardian 2000 (Member # 743) on :
Well, this being the same TOS Enterprise that pulled some freaky "warp pivots" in "Elaan of Troyius" (I think), she hardly needs an aft torpedo launcher.
She does, however, have aft phasers. You hear about them all the time in that background chatter usually heard while repairs are afoot. The phrase is most easily heard during "Balance of Terror", as I recall.
Posted by Boris (Member # 713) on :
Timo: the above quote doesn't require six exits. Do you have other evidence that limits the count to at least six?
Posted by Anduril (Member # 654) on :
Ooo, I thought balance of terror gave us the "amidships" or "midships" reference. I'm going to go back and listen to that damage report again this afternoon.
As far as aft phasers go the only thing I've ever see on that was a fan made diagram that shows the aft phasers coming out of the back where the lights are below the shuttle deck. It almost looks like they have them coming out of the two vertical lights. If anybody is interested I can dig the image up off of one of my cd's.
Posted by Peregrinus (Member # 504) on :
The best theory I've seen regarding the ST II torpedo bays is that bays 1 and 3 are the upper portions that we see through the holes above the launch rails, while 2 and 4 are the ones on the actual launch deck.
--Jonah
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
This would be the ideal explanation, yes - it would get a little cramped in there, but sets that are larger from the inside than from the outside are nothing new in Trek. We'd have to allow for some parallel corridors outboard of both bays, too, so that we could explain the portholes on the exterior walls and lack thereof on the interior walls...
There remain some other problems, too. Both #2 and #4 were shown to have an airlock/docking port (painfully clearly labeled) to port, and lacking a corresponding feature to starboard. We could assume a slight asymmetry here, of course - the starboard airlock could have been just around the corner, and there could have been an extra pressure-door between the bays 2 and 4 (somewhat confusingly labeled as "airlock"; or perhaps the signage only showed that this door led to the airlock?).
In theory, bay 2 would be the one through which Kirk boarded the ship, namely the port one. Khan would later devastate this bay. Bay 4 would be the one Spock was buried from. The signage showing bay 4 being devastated by Khan would just have to be ignored.
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by Dat (Member # 302) on :
I'm of the opinion that the whole thing is messed up. In ST2, Kirk is told to dock at the port torp bay airlock, but stock footage had him dock at the port secondary hull airlock. We see Kirk board right behind and enter Torp Bay 2, which is correct for dialog, but incorrect for space footage. Later we see Torp Bay 2 being destroyed by Reliant. No problems here. Later we see a torp being loaded in Torp Bay 4 when we know only two launchers exists. Plus it's fired from the starbaord launcher. When Spock's funeral is held, we see it being held in Torp Bay 2, but it was destroyed. When we see the Spock's torpedo fired, it's from the starboard launcher, which is correct given we know the port laucher has been destroyed, but is wrong given that the starboard bay is Bay 1 and the funeral was in Bay 2.
[ May 06, 2002, 10:00: Message edited by: Dat ]
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
I must disagree about that docking bit. The footage is cut short so that we cannot really tell where the pod actually docks - and Probert had apparently foreseen this sort of a situation, because he built the two docking locations with identical detail! Both the port that leads to the cargo area and the one that leads to the torp bay have the exact same kind of porthole arrangement next to them. So no real problem there.
As for the bit about launching torps from the wrong tube... well, we can always give Shane Johnson some credit and accept the idea of transverse rails that connect the two tubes. Given the abysmally slow functioning of the manually operated loading system, it would be no wonder if the designers wanted two loading bays to feed the actual launchers, and a method for sharing torps between the tubes so that both loading bays could be coupled to feed one tube.
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