Was browsing through the newest Star Trek: Communicator magazine, & found some interesting info.
First, in an Enterprise article describing each of the scenes of the opening credits, the warp ship with the rocket engines is referred to as a "lunar orbiter plane."
And second (& more interesting, IMHO) is a pic of the original painting of the "ring-ship" Enterprise seen in TMP. Surprisingly, the inside of the rear ring reads "U.S.S. Enterprise," not "S.S." as was previously believed. Written on the inside of the front ring is a registry number of "XCV-330."
Sorry, no scans.
[ May 14, 2002, 13:12: Message edited by: Dukhat ]
Posted by Dat (Member # 302) on :
Now that "USS Enterprise XCV-330" may cause problems...many problems. Unless the "USS" stands for something different than the Fed Starfleet "USS". Breaking with studio info, I'd say this is pre-pre-E-nil. Meaning this comes before Archer's Enterprise. Perhaps this ship belongs to the USN and is before the founding of Earth Starfleet.
Posted by The359 (Member # 37) on :
Maybe the name of the ship is "U.S.S. Enterprise" and not "Enterprise" with a U.S.S. prefix. Remember, the ring-Enterprise is supposed to be some kind of spaceliner according to lore, meaning it wouldn't be a military vessel, and therefore wouldn't need a prefix. The ship could be named after the Aircraft Carrier U.S.S. Enterprise, and whichever private company was naming their spaceliner fleet thought it would be a good name for it.
The registry would merely be one to help classify the vessel easier, since privatly owned ships have a habit of changing their names quite often. The registry would never change, therefore it'd be easier to keep track of.
Posted by Alpha Centauri (Member # 338) on :
I agree that the 'ring-ship' Enterprise is older than the NX-01. According to the Making of ST:TMP, the ship was constructed and launched in the early 21st century (no exact year was given), and the first sublight ship to make it to Alpha Centauri (the star, that is ). I'd say that this info carries substantial weight, perhaps even 'canon-until-contradicted'.
I speculate that the USS denotes a United States-built ship. But overall, I'm not sure how seriously I should take info from the Communicator.
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
I swear, they should've fudged the background in that TMP scene and snuck in the NX-01 on that display case instead of the ring ship -- that would make things so much easier... Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
I wonder if Picard suddenly has NX-01 stuff in his quarters in Nemesis.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
I'm voting for "yes". We'll probably see a tiny NX Class model on a table somewhere or something. Posted by pIn'a' Sov (Member # 293) on :
For someone living way off, what issue of communicator?
Also, must....have....big....scans.... Posted by Matrix (Member # 376) on :
Of course there will be a mention of an 'USS Enterprise, NX class" in the movie. We'll also see perhaps a model of her in the Enterprise case somewhere.
Posted by Dat (Member # 302) on :
quote:Originally posted by Matrix: Of course there will be a mention of an 'USS Enterprise, NX class" in the movie. We'll also see perhaps a model of her in the Enterprise case somewhere.
Sure, leave it to Picard and company to screw up the name as it's never been referred to as "USS Enterprise".
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
It would violate continuity in a weird way. Yes, it acknowledges ENT, but it disregards all those years of TOS, TNG, DS9 and VOY where noone talked about the NX-01.
Posted by David Templar (Member # 580) on :
quote:Originally posted by Harry: It would violate continuity in a weird way. Yes, it acknowledges ENT, but it disregards all those years of TOS, TNG, DS9 and VOY where noone talked about the NX-01.
Feels like Berman and Braga just walked over my grave.
Posted by U//Magnus (Member # 239) on :
I could still probably sleep at night. Oh, and I wouldn't have any ulcers, either.
Posted by Spike (Member # 322) on :
quote:Originally posted by Harry: It would violate continuity in a weird way. Yes, it acknowledges ENT, but it disregards all those years of TOS, TNG, DS9 and VOY where noone talked about the NX-01.
Anyone want to place bets on whether the NX-01 will mysteriously appear in the "grand ship display" that's traditionally in the Conference Room behind the Bridge?
Posted by Spike (Member # 322) on :
quote:Anyone want to place bets on whether the NX-01 will mysteriously appear in the "grand ship display" that's traditionally in the Conference Room behind the Bridge?
I don't think the NX-01 should be in this display? It's not a ship of the Federation Starfleet.
[ May 15, 2002, 14:26: Message edited by: Spike ]
Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :
Are we going to have to put up with this bullshit for another six years?
Oh, and based on that ET report, the ship display that all of you have your panties in a knot over is gone, replaced with a big honking display terminal.
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
Not necessarily.. The room shown in that ET report doesn't match up with the one we saw in First Contact. While the room itself is about the right size, the doors are on the side(s), and not at the front wall. They can't possibly lead back to the bridge from there. Methinks they're just using a conference lounge somewhere else on the ship, which they've often done during TNG's run - the E-D had several other conference lounges identical to the one aft of the bridge, except they emptied out into a standard corridor rather than the less featured onw leading to the bride or turbolift. I believe Geordi used one on the leading edge of the saucer at least once, to look at something outside the ship.
Mark
Posted by The359 (Member # 37) on :
But the windows to the TNG Conference Lounge wouldn't match up with anywhere else on the ship...
Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
um.. that doesnt mean they didnt do it. The Ten-Forward windows dont match any exterior windows either.
For the record, Geordi had to look outside in 'Justice'.. and i never understood how kids would get to deck 1, so the scene where they found the kids in the conference lounge in 'The Last Outpost' might fall under this. I also noticed watching 'Ensign Ro' that the wall where the ships are sposed to be had some generic supprt/decorative greebles there instead..
Posted by David Templar (Member # 580) on :
quote:Originally posted by Spike: I don't think the NX-01 should be in this display? It's not a ship of the Federation Starfleet.
Neither was CVN-65.
Posted by Topher (Member # 71) on :
quote:Originally posted by CaptainMike: I also noticed watching 'Ensign Ro' that the wall where the ships are sposed to be had some generic supprt/decorative greebles there instead..
That's the late-TNG conference lounge. It was changed in s4 or s5, IIRC. Actually, I don't really remember. Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
actually i recall that now.. thats why, in AGT, they made a big deal of doing a closeup of Picard Year One walking by the gold ships to establish the era...
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
It should be mentioned that no "ships named Enterprise" display has ever been complete, and we shouldn't assume that being complete is their purpose.
Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
yes, each display is missing one aircraft carrier, and the World War I Large Motor Powered Boat U.S.S. Enterprise, the C.S.S. Enterprise, a few variations of wooden sailing Enterpri(z)es, the NX-01, the ring ship, and at least two others that they havent realized they are planning to make up, for example the fact that the AC Ent is going to be decomissioned and some other Enterprise would seem likely to be made by the US til then
[ May 15, 2002, 21:59: Message edited by: CaptainMike ]
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
The E-E lounge has already demonstrated TNG-like multiple personality symptoms. In "Insurrection", the set was used for a facility down on deck nine, the one where the diplomatic reception was held, complete with a fancy telephone booth to the side.
To be sure, there are lounge windows back there on deck nine - they are just significantly bigger than the deck one lounge windows. There are also other sets of windows that could be said to roughly match the lounge ones, so the set can be used for those rooms as well. We could assume that one of those is intended in "Nemesis".
In "Justice", Geordi peeked out from a starboard saucer rim lounge, IIRC...
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by Spike (Member # 322) on :
quote:Neither was CVN-65.
The CVN-65 was in the TNG-display. In the FC display were just Federation Starfleet ships named Enterprise, so I don't see a reason why they should include a non-Federation vessel.
Posted by Boris (Member # 713) on :
But why doesn't it show up in any of the permutations? Not in TMP, not in TNG, not in the count of the Temporal Investigations officer, not in the choice of Holodeck bridges in "Relics". In the latter two cases, both the computer and the TI officers automatically assume that the Federation Enterprises are meant, whereas Sisko could've easily met the NX-01 (we don't know enough about the ring ship to tell if it even flew long enough).
If it's a simply that there isn't enough space in the displays, then the ship must be as significant or less significant than the space shuttle, the aircraft carrier or the ring ship. Since the aircraft carrier has shown up more often, it probably is more significant than the NX-01.
[ May 16, 2002, 05:21: Message edited by: Boris ]
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Or maybe when Archer travels forward in time and meets Picard in the third season of Enterprise, Picard decides he's a jerk and purposefully doesn't include his ship.
Who knows. Of course we know the real reason NX-01 isn't in any of the displays is because it hadn't been thought of yet. I choose not to dwell.
Posted by Boris (Member # 713) on :
A theory with some evidence is better than a theory with no evidence. And we do in fact have evidence that Picard doesn't think highly of Archer -- he sees his first contact as "disastrous", as well as an event that "led" to decades of war. These are strong allegations.
The next best theory is alternate timeline. The next best theory is that it's merely a series of unfortunate coincidences that we haven't seen this ship yet.
(BTW, the producers' intentions are not more canon than the canon).
Boris
Posted by Dat (Member # 302) on :
I don't think that Picard doesn't think highly of Archer just because of one bad incident. Picard would be very narrow-minded if he did think that. Picard seems to be a man who looks at the bigger picture. If Archer continued to do badly as a captain, then I can see Picard despising the man.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
I don't think it's canon...I guess I just don't really care.
Maybe Picard didn't like the design of ship, maybe he had an ancestor aboard CVN-65. It would be like me putting up a display of great artists and leaving out Michelangelo. He was a great artist, but maybe I just don't like his stuff.
(I really do like Michelangelo).
I'm usually all for finding theories to explain stuff like this...I just know they'll never explain it so we're just going to have to assume there was a reason.
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
It's like listing all Star Trek series, and not mentioning TAS.
Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :
It's like James T. Kirk never mentioning Neil Armstrong.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
To go back to a previous point, I thought the lounge in "Justice" was supposed to be in the egg-shaped portion of deck 1 below the bridge...
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Did Kirk ever mention Armstrong? I don't recall...but that's just the point. Simply because Picard never said anything about Archer, doesn't mean he didn't know about him. I'll use the artisit analogy again. I deal with art and design every day...and I've done so for many years, but I can't remember the last time I talked about Picasso. It was probably 7 or 8 years ago.
And as far as the lounge goes, if memory serves...the space station/God thing was in front of the ship. If Geordi had been looking out of the conference lounge on deck one, he'd have been looking away from the object. It's been a long time since I've seen the episode, though...so I may be wrong about the orientation.
[ May 16, 2002, 13:17: Message edited by: Aban Rune ]
Posted by David Templar (Member # 580) on :
Maybe it's because in the end, the voyages and adventures of the NX-01 and her crew amounted to almost nothing, and as such was left out of the history books.
Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :
quote:Originally posted by David Templar: Maybe it's because in the end, the voyages and adventures of the NX-01 and her crew amounted to almost nothing, and as such was left out of the history books.
Unlike the voyages and adventures of the space shuttle and CVN-65, which amounted to a great deal and must absolutely cram the history books.
Posted by Guardian 2000 (Member # 743) on :
quote:Originally posted by Boris: A theory with some evidence is better than a theory with no evidence. And we do in fact have evidence that Picard doesn't think highly of Archer -- he sees his first contact as "disastrous", as well as an event that "led" to decades of war. These are strong allegations.
Archer didn't make first contact with the Klingons. The disastrous first contact was that whole part where a farmer shoots him with a shotgun.
Further, there has never been any other mention anywhere of actual war with the Klingon Empire (not counting the events immediately preceding the Organia incident). There was "unremitting hostility", and a relationship of "adversaries", but never all-out war. I daresay that Picard was exaggerating.
Posted by Peregrinus (Member # 504) on :
Kamarag, the Klingon Ambassador to the Federation in Star Trek IV, said clearly "there shall be no peace..." -- implying that the other state of affairs existed at that point. It might not have been a hot war (except possibly a couple isolated incidents we never saw), but it was definitely a cold war at the very least.
They seemed to have reached detente by the time of Star Trek VI several years later, though, as Azet'bur said that any attempt to retrieve the prisoners would be considered "an act of war" -- implying that the other state of affairs existed at that point.
What we want to make of this besides possibly lazy writing, I don't know...
--Jonah
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
What Klingons consider "war" or "peace" may of course be "unique concepts", as Sarek once put it...
If we consider acts of war on human terms, we know of one "battle" (Donatu V), one "raid" (the one Kor boasts about in "Once More Into the Breach"), plus several cases where Klingons shot at Kirk or his ship.
Clearly, humans would have had plenty of excuses to declare war. However, one could have these battles and raids and exchanges of fire without having a war. And "Errand of Mercy" and "Friday's Child" speak of the possibility of a war in terms that make it sound as if none had taken place in the lifetimes of the heroes.
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by Identity Crisis (Member # 67) on :
Maybe NX-01 isn't given a prominent display because it ended up starting the Romulan War. Fits the timeline and would explain why future generations prefer not to remember it. Would also go some way towards explaining why Starfleet doesn't name another ship 'Enterprise' for about a hundred years.
Just another dumb theory.
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
Another reason why there's no starship named Enterprise until 2245 or so could be that there exists a barracks ship or buoy repair tender or other insignificant vessel named Enterprise. The damn thing keeps the name "reserved" while living a dull, low-risk and thus insufferably long life. While still nominally Starfleet, she ain't a real starship, and the organization just doesn't want to have two ships of the same name.
In fact, NX-01 herself could live out the latter half of her service life as such an insignificant vessel...
Whatever the explanation to why NX-01 hasn't been mentioned before, there's one thing I *don't* want to happen. I *don't* want to get a gratutious reference to "the famous Jonathan Archer and his equally famous Enterprise" in ST:Nemesis. Or in the movie after that. In a new spinoff show, I just might stomach a reference or two, of the type "Archer? Archer... The name does ring a bell. Wasn't he a starship captain, way back in the days of the famous captains Neerhurd Befur and Hozzat Suppozabe?"
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by Dat (Member # 302) on :
Well whatever happens to Archer's Enterprise, we know she will have an illustrious career. There was an admiral in a 2nd season TNG ep where he claimed that in the past 500 years, all ships that have borne the name has had great careers.
Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
Yeah, and while people are known to generalize, they never generalize about stuff like that...
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
I like the idea that the Ring-Enterprise is a Vulcan ship... maybe built out of respect to the NX Enterprise?
Posted by Guardian 2000 (Member # 743) on :
Actually, ever since we first saw a ring-warper, I've assumed that the ring-warp Enterprise from TMP was merely a really old Vulcan ship that Earth got from the Vulcans to play with . . . perhaps nothing more than a Coast Guard ship for the Terran system, or maybe a full-fledged explorer of local space.
Or, maybe, like the shuttle, it was something we got from the Vulcans, but which we never flew, just studying the hell out of it. Probably all those damned Trekkies wrote in to insist that it be renamed Enterprise, or something. :-)
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
Or else the ring-Enterprise was a home-grown ship that simply mimics the Vulcan designs, figuring that the Vulcans know what they're doing.
Posted by nx001a (Member # 291) on :
Could the war between the Federation and the Klingons be similar to the situation between North and South Korea? A peace treaty was never signed after a brief war. The relations are tense and there is the occassional border problems. A similar might be taking place in the late 2280's.
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
I doubt the Klingons would sign a treaty with a word in it they don't know yet (just like ol' Dubya )
Posted by David Templar (Member # 580) on :
But North and South Korea spawned from the same people and culture. They're constantly at odds because on some level, both sides wants reunification, just not on the same terms. Humans and Klingons have no such sentiments towards each other.
Posted by Mucus (Member # 24) on :
"Spawned"?
What is the Korean pennisula one big Quake map now? How did so many people spawn at once without telefragging?
[ May 22, 2002, 19:08: Message edited by: Mucus ]
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
You're all under the assumption that the rings on that ship are warp nacelles just because the Vulcan ships have them. There's no reason to assume that at all. For all we know, the rings are just solar panels or (if the ship is really large) habitable living quarters.
Posted by Alpha Centauri (Member # 338) on :
Maybe the ring is a habitat section, rotating to simulate gravity. However, the ring seems quite narrow, I'm not sure if it's wide enough to accomodate a crew.
Posted by J (Member # 608) on :
The Rings are more than likely field coil housings, just like Nacelles are. But we do know that the Cardassians and many other species do not use external field coil housings, they embed their warp field coils.
PS: Stop calling the Rings Nacelles, there is a difference, they are similar in function but not in structure. They are both WFC housings, but they are not both Rings and they are not both Nacelles....
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). I'd say that this info carries substantial weight, perhaps even 'canon-until-contradicted'.![[Wink]](wink.gif)
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