quote:

---

-a refit Constitution class labeled as U.S.S. Constitution NCC-1700

---

quote:

---

What are these:

http://home.arcor.de/spike730/misc/displays/conspiracy_001.jpg

http://home.arcor.de/spike730/misc/displays/conspiracy_005.jpg

---

The first one was the one I thought was a space station. It also appears in STII. The second one is a mystery. It looks like two Voyager aeroshuttles back-to-back, but of course that's not what it is.

[ May 21, 2002, 15:06: Message edited by: Dukhat ]
 

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Posted by Peregrinus (Member # 504) on :
 
Notice also the caption under the bird reads "THE GREAT BIRD OF THE GALAXY"...

--Jonah
 

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Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
 
The second pictures looks like your typical modular cargo ship to me.
 

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Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
 
Considering that the other picture is also of a cargo ship (the Lotus Flower), and that it's only a top view like this one, I'm inclined to agree with you, However, I've skimmed through Shipschematics trying to find this design, but so far have had no luck. I figured it might have been another FASA design, but who knows...
 

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Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :
 
Um, ship thread? Here?
 

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Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
 
1. the original link doesn't work.

2. The bird... hmmm heh - maybe it is a captain's pet out there... maybe he like dressing it up. Maybe he's like some sort of pirate! Maybe it's an emblem something like the 'workbee' and the 'defiant with teeth' pics from the DS9 tech manual.

3. the first linked picture - I thought 'space station' but, if it has also been seen in TWoK it doesn't fit my second suggestion that it looks like the captain's yacht with some sort of nacelle above it.

4. The last pic - looks like two ships close together. They're not depicting the gravity plating are they?

Just had a thought - maybe the Conspiracy Aliens replaced a captain with a bird as a way of disrupting Starfleet!

Andrew
 

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Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
 
It was a pre-refit Connie labelled NCC-1700

http://home.arcor.de/spike730/misc/displays/datalore_007.jpg
 

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Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
 
using my special enhance routine.. the second pic up there seems to have address lines,

TO:        CAPT. XXX(X?) XXXX(X?)
           USS XXXXXXXXXX NCC-(4?)XXXX
.
FROM:      ADMIRAL GREGORY QUINN
           XXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXX 
.
SUBJECT:   XXXXXX (SHIP?) XXXXX XXXX(X?)
.
STARDATE:  (4?)XXXX.X
.

Whew.. i actually got a lot of that.. not. For the first line, it looked like it said 'CAPT JIM KIRK' and 'USS ENTERPRISE', but that seems unlikely to be followed by a five digit registry.

[edit.. further examination.. i realized the second line (the FROM field) must be a rank/name/name/ and stared at it, revealing Quinn's name (foreshadowing he would be the villain.. thats why i like Okudagrams! )]

[ May 22, 2002, 00:06: Message edited by: CaptainMike ]
 

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Posted by Vogon Poet (Member # 393) on :
 
That parrot looks like Dubya. . .
 

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Posted by Fedaykin Supastar (Member # 704) on :
 
....u know u're right - kinda....
maybe its an omen!

haha

neways, does that mean that there is some bird-wit-head thing [in some form or other] that is CANON? haha

lol

sorry i have nothing meaningful to offer

Buzz
 

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Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
 
I think it has Gene Roddenberry's face, actually, which would be consistant with the in-joke.

[ May 22, 2002, 12:19: Message edited by: Sol System ]
 

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Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
 
That's probably an excerpt from a Starfleet study on a strange ancient cult on planet Fanboy XXVII
 

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Posted by Spike (Member # 322) on :
 
Or an example of late 22nd century surreal art.
 

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Posted by Wraith (Member # 779) on :
 
What is this: http://home.arcor.de/spike730/misc/displays/nakednow_009.jpg
 

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Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
 
That is an Orion Wanderer from FASA.



However, as far as we know, Okuda just stole the design out of one of FASA'a manuals, and the fine print actually reads that the ship is the Hokule'a class U.S.S. Tripoli.

[ May 22, 2002, 13:28: Message edited by: Dukhat ]
 

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Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
 
wha?
 

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Posted by Alpha Centauri (Member # 338) on :
 
Looks like we're having a canon design for the Hokule'a!
 

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Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
 
Uh, no. I didn't say that.
 

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Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
 
just noticed that the side view is flipped. Or FASA's topview was turned into a bottomview by Okuda.
 

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Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
 
I think Dukat meant that it's possible Okuda labeled it as something other than an Orion Wanderer in the fine print. There's not really any way to read it though.

My guess is he picked the Tripoli for his hypothesis because Data served aboard the Tripoli (or was that the ship that found him?) and it would make sense that that info would come up in the data search.
 

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Posted by Dat (Member # 302) on :
 
Tripoli found him. He served on Trieste. Knew how slow that ship was.
 

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Posted by Masao (Member # 232) on :
 
FYI: http://home.arcor.de/spike730/misc/displays/datalore_002.jpg These aliens are supposedly traders encountered by an early Earth Ship on the Rigel Trading Planet. They're by Sternbach and come from the Spaceflight Chronology.
 

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Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
 
Any names for this species?
 

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Posted by Masao (Member # 232) on :
 
Nope, no species names associated with the little aliens. The spiny-looking one is just described by a wide-eyed Earth officer as looking like a cross between a porcupine and an amoeba as it attempts to sell a diamond as large as a fist.

You should all go out and get yourselves copies of this great book. All noncanon and runover by subsequent canon, but it makes good reading. It also contains countless side-view schematics of ships not depicted in the full-color paintings posted at various websites. It's the most imaginative Trek ship book I know.
www.bookfinder.com lists dozens of copies at all prices. I bought one for a friend recently for only $10.

Edit: Ok, not exactly dozens, but around 10. I had a hell of a time trying to find this book about 10 years ago. I Didn't manage to get one until I searched was on the web.

[ May 29, 2002, 17:16: Message edited by: Masao ]
 

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Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
 
"Book?"
 

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Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
 

quote:

---

These aliens are supposedly traders encountered by an early Earth Ship on the Rigel Trading Planet. They're by Sternbach and come from the Spaceflight Chronology.

---

 

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Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
 
I've made some caps from "The Last Outpost" @ http://harry2002.host.sk/dvdump/tng/lastoutpost/page_01.htm , they're again the same pics.
 

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Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
 
ooh.. interesting stuff.. first thoughts:

the Connie-refit cutaway looks to be reused from Okuda's ST:IV graphics.. still has the old wide font at th bottom of it as he designed the movie era screens..

theres a FASA klingon ship.. k-23 if i recall...

he let a bunch of stuff in the top screen upside down youll note.. why? [oh yeah.. the old excuse ' i never thought anyone would put this on DVD and microsopically examine every frame'.. what jury would buy that? just like trying to explain all the quasi uniforms in TMP]

that first exterior shot would be the aborted attempt to show the articulation of the Ferengi ship's moving wings (the shots were scrapped when the moving parts crushed all the neon within the ship, requiring the lighting to be rebuilt)

[ May 30, 2002, 04:03: Message edited by: CaptainMike ]
 

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Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
 
If you look at the LCARS borders and text alignment surrounding the upper display, you'll that's also flipped. I suspect it's the from same footage, but flipped.
 

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Posted by pIn'a' Sov (Member # 293) on :
 
CaptainMike - Klingon FASA ship K-23??? What is this, and are you sure? It looks like a standard D-7 or K'tinga to my untrained eye.
 

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Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
 
hmmm. yes.. wel.. um... it looked k23 on my first glance, but enhacing it it seems to be D7.. i was mislead since that particular drawing (from FASA anyway) seems to have a lot of etail rawn in on the centerline of the secondary hulll that was k23 shaped.. oh well
 

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Posted by Tahna Los (Member # 33) on :
 
This is a Starships thread. You will find it there.
 

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Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
 
Has anyone been able to find out what this is:

http://home.arcor.de/spike730/misc/displays/conspiracy_005.jpg

I've tried to find a FASA ship with this configuration on ShipSchematics, but so far, zippo. Could this be a ship from the Spaceflight Chronology? Since I don't have the book, I can't check.
 

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Posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov (Member # 742) on :
 
Dukhat, I tried to figure out what it is; it looks like the fuel tanker from Jackill's SRM, well, at least a bit. I doubt it is a base, but decide for yourself:


 

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Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
 
The front part (at least, I assume it's the fornt...the section to the right) looks an awful lot like a Gunstar.
 

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Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
 
Kyle: OK, here's my questions:

1. Is that image taken directly from Jackill's manual, or did you draw it yourself?

2. Is this a top view or a sideview?

3. Does the ship have a name or a class?

4. Is there a better picture of it somewhere, and

5. Where can I find more of Jackill's designs? ShipSchematics had some, but I couldn't find one that looked like this ship.
 

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Posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov (Member # 742) on :
 
The image above was a drawing I did when you asked for a better view. It's the screenshot, with corrected angle and enlarged. I simply reworked the green lines to make it clearer.

The ship I mentioned is a 'Huntington-class Deuterium tanker' from SRM 3. It's basically a streched Constitution secondary hull with two engines right and left of it and two big tanks - one above and one below the ship.

The image was not very clear, and I don't know if there are earlier versions of that ship, so maybe they used that ship image. I guess what we see on my picture is a top-view while the Huntington sideview would be close to this ship. If you want pictures, I can scan it.
 

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Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
 
You mean this?:

http://www.shipschematics.net/startrek/images/federation/deuteriumtanker_huntington.jpg

No, I'm afraid I don't think it's the same ship. Good guess, though. And now that I think about it, I really doubt Mike would have used a non-canon design in an Okudagram, unless it was from FASA (which still had their license at that point).

[ May 30, 2002, 13:55: Message edited by: Dukhat ]
 

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Posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov (Member # 742) on :
 
^^^^

Yes, that's it. If you remove the line connecting the foreward and aft part of the tank you get four tanks, tow above, two below the ship. That's what I though happened here.
 

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Posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov (Member # 742) on :
 
As good as possible from the screencap:


 

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Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
 
Well, the thing sticking out of the end of the right side could be a top-view of a Connie nacelle, but other than that, there seems to be no discernible characteristics of any Starfleet ship (which was the same story with the Lotus Flower, which made me think it was a FASA ship).
 

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Posted by The Defiant (Member # 818) on :
 
http://home.arcor.de/spike730/misc/displays/conspiracy_005.jpg

TO: CAPT. JIM KIRK
USS ENTERPRISE NCC-40147 or 4087
FROM: ADMIRAL GREGORY QUINN
STARFLEET

That's basically what CapMike pointed out, but that's what I could decipher

[ June 30, 2002, 18:42: Message edited by: Ed / BWC ]
 

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Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
 
Well, obviously it doesn't say "Enterprise" if that's the NCC number you made out.

BTW, here's the original FASA miniature of the Lotus Flower (the ship in the second Conspiracy jpeg).


 

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Posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov (Member # 742) on :
 
Hmm, is that a Constitution-nacelle on top of it?
 

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Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
 
According to the FASA diagram, it is.
 

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Posted by The Defiant (Member # 818) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dukhat:
[QB]Well, obviously it doesn't say "Enterprise" if that's the NCC number you made out.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dukhat:
Well, obviously it doesn't say "Enterprise" if that's the NCC number you made out.

---

Of course not. He plainly stated that it read "ENTERPISE." Therefore, we can perhaps infer that this "Starship Enterpise" is commanded by one CPT Jim Bob Kirk & is infact some sort of intragalactic bakery-product transfer vessel.
 

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Posted by The Defiant (Member # 818) on :
 
Yeah, it's a, uh, a Baker class transport.
See here.

With ovens powered directly from the Warp Core.

[ May 30, 2002, 19:19: Message edited by: The Defiant ]
 

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Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
 
The mystery ship that wasn't a Huntington tanker is very probably taken from the old Spaceflight Chronology. The book has several designs that look roughly like that, although I don't remember which one this is supposed to be. Will check over the weekend.

Timo Saloniemi
 

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Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
 
Timo: I know it's been awhile, but were you able to check the Spaceflight Chronology for the mystery ship?
 

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Posted by pIn'a' Sov (Member # 293) on :
 
Actually Dukhat, there is no ship in that book which correspond to that design. However, I will soon add a new section to my homepage. I just bought the book, so you can look forward to seeing all the starships, bases and what nots from "Spaceflight chronology" on the Guardian of Forever.
I will also post a pic here as soon as I get home. I got it from a guy who has done a cool job with the mystery ship. You�ll see

[ June 25, 2002, 02:33: Message edited by: pIn'a' Sov ]
 

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Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
 

quote:

---

TO: CAPT. JIM KIRK
USS ENTERPISE NCC-40147 or 4087

---

I may be wrong, but could swear that it says "U.S.S. ATLANTIC".
 

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Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
 
I thought it said "U.S.S. Alaska," which could have been a reference to the FASA Alaska-class starships, of which the Enterprise-C was a member (according to FASA, since at the time there was no correlation between the Enterprise-C and the Ambassador class, which was then only referred to in dialogue about the Horatio).
 

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Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
 
Well, what was the Alaska's registry number? Does it fit?
 

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Posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov (Member # 742) on :
 
Back to the good old days of screen-analysis...



the four words on the left side are pretty clear: To, From, Subject and Stardate.

To: The first is 'Cpt' for sure, then two short words, but it's not Jim Kirk. Below the Atlantic/Alaska/whatever (I thought it was Atlantis), registry 40xxx.

From: first word is Cmdr, followed by either the first name of the person or two short words. since I think the second word is 'in', I assumed it is Commander-in-chief. The name is unclear. The line below could indicate Planet/number/Base-name/coordinates or something.

Subject: No idea

Stardate: Most definitely 4, followed by either 1 or... something else.

The rest is unclear, too.

Do you think that Okuda still keeps those old Okudagrams somwhere?
 

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Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
 
Wow. Most of that is really too hard to read though. It could be anything.

-MMoM
 

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Posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov (Member # 742) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim:
Wow. Most of that is really too hard to read though. It could be anything.

-MMoM

---

quote:

---

...Below the Atlantic/Alaska/whatever (I thought it was Atlantis), registry 40xxx.

---

quote:

---

Do you think that Okuda still keeps those old Okudagrams somwhere?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dukhat:

quote:

---

Do you think that Okuda still keeps those old Okudagrams somwhere?

---

Highly doubtful.

---

I don't know...

While it's a good bet he personally doesn't have easy access to them, I'm pretty sure they wouldn't have just thrown them away. They're probably in Art Department archives or something, kept there on the off chance that they might be used again for something.

Cpt. Kyle, (or anyone) is there any possible way of being more sure of the name and registry of the ship?

-MMoM
 

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Posted by Akira62497 (Member # 850) on :
 
http://home.arcor.de/spike730/misc/displays/conspiracy_001.jpg

http://home.arcor.de/spike730/misc/displays/conspiracy_005.jpg

These have the same name and Registy i have tried playing with them with no luck maybe one of you guys can make it a simi-transparent ontop of the other one and get the numbers to show better.
 

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Posted by Akira62497 (Member # 850) on :
 
this is the best i can do

http://www.240sxs14.nissanpower.com/biggie.gif
http://www.240sxs14.nissanpower.com/biggie2.gif
COPY AND PAIST THEM IN!!!!!

see if you guys can get anything out of these combo's

[ June 25, 2002, 19:49: Message edited by: Akira62497 ]
 

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Posted by BWC (Member # 818) on :
 
You don't have to copy and paste them. That's odd.

Me and CaptainMike (sorry, Capped In Mic) tried to dechipher them earlier in the topic.
 

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Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
 
There have been rumblings, from time to time, almost always fan-generated, about a big book of Okudagrams, priced reasonably for weddings and bar mitzvahs. Now, no such book is in the works, at least not that Okuda has ever said. But he's never, to my recollection, said that such a project would be physically impossible. So I bet some survive.
 

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Posted by Masao (Member # 232) on :
 
I bet Okuda has all those Okudagrams on his Mac's harddrive. The actual transparencies might not exist, but I'm sure he still has all the artwork in his computer. I mean, I never through away any computer artwork files.
 

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Posted by Capped In Mic (Member # 709) on :
 
i throw away a lot, depending on how big the He-Man ep im downloading turns out to be.

and i sincerely hope that Okuda isnt using the same Mac he had in 1986.
 

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Posted by Starship Freak (Member # 293) on :
 
Well, now I have added the new section to my site the Guardian of Forever: Spaceflight chronology
Also, here is the picture-analysis I told you about from a guy called John Taverni:
Original:

Original ship from Spaceflight chronology:

John Taverni�s picture, which is two of those above together with a bit of a modification

Pretty close in my opinion
 

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Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
 
Interesting...
 

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Posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov (Member # 742) on :
 
But what exactly am I supposed to see here? What is it?
 

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Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
 
Yes, and what was the ship? Any info about it?
 

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Posted by Starship Freak (Member # 293) on :
 
Well, it was suggested that the ship from the screencap from "Conspiracy", the first pic, was a design from the book "Spaceflight chronology" I just bought the book, and I can tell you the design is not there. However, a guy called John Taverni mailed me and mentioned that a ship from the book resembled a section of the mystery ship, this is pic number two. He then put two of those ships together, added a few modifications of his own, not too much as you can see, and we got a ship that resembled the mystery ship from "Conspiracy", which then is pic number three. The ship itself is mentioned in the book as USS Muletrain a Provider-class ship, 225 meters long with a crewcomplement of 65.

[ July 01, 2002, 04:03: Message edited by: Starship Freak ]
 

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Posted by DoughBoy (Member # 804) on :
 
I was just looking at that picture you fellas were discussing there earlier and the first glace I would have said that it read U.S.S. Atlantic, but the Captains name I would almost swear it said Capt Jack Ryan!
 

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Posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov (Member # 742) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by DoughBoy:
I was just looking at that picture you fellas were discussing there earlier and the first glace I would have said that it read U.S.S. Atlantic, but the Captains name I would almost swear it said Capt Jack Ryan!

---

What was the name of the U.S.-submarine in 'Hunt for Red October'? I could swear it was the Dallas, but... - what was the release date of the movie? 1989? Hmm...
 

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Posted by Snay (Member # 411) on :
 
It was the Dallas.
 

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Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
 
Starship Freak: Thanks for the info! I really do think that the two ships are one & the same (with "doubled-modifications" to the Okudagram; perhaps Okuda was just trying not to plagiarize Sternbach's design, or wanted to make a variant). Anyway, thanks for clearing up the mystery. One question, though: From what century was this ship supposed to be from?

MMoM: The more I think aboout it, the more I think that it's NOT U.S.S. Alaska. The FASA Officer's manual didn't come out until after the first season of TNG, so it'd be impossible for Okuda to pay homage to a ship that hadn't been invented yet.
 

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Posted by Spike (Member # 322) on :
 
Maybe the FASA guys had access to the okudagrams and used this name for one of their designs.
 

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Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
 
It's possible, but there was never actually a design made for the Alaska class. There's a fan design at Shipschematics, but that's all it is - a fan design. Perhaps a true FASA design might have been made later, but they lost their license right after the Officer's Manual came out, so that was the end of it.

Side note: If FASA had ever gotten around to making a design, it most likely would have been based on the Enterprise-C wall ornament, which ironically the Ambassador Ent-C was NOT based on.

[ July 01, 2002, 07:59: Message edited by: Dukhat ]
 

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Posted by DoughBoy (Member # 804) on :
 
^
Remember FASA's design for the Royal Sovereign Class BattleCruiser? I always thought it looked pretty nifty.
 

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Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
 

"what was the release date of the movie? 1989?"

The book came out around '81, IIRC.
 

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Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dukhat:
perhaps Okuda was just trying not to plagiarize Sternbach's design, or wanted to make a variant).

---

Wouldn't be the only time.
If you look at the Spaceflight Chronology's version of the DY-500, you'll notice that it's very similar to what Okuda ended up using.
 

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Posted by Starship Freak (Member # 293) on :
 
The ship is from the 22:nd century:
USS Muletrain
 

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Posted by Masao (Member # 232) on :
 
See that "Prototype battlecruiser" is the link to USS Muletrain? I based my USS Wasp class on it ( http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/sfmuseum/wasp.jpg ). I saw that schematic in a "Federation Technical Survey" wall chart, which had swiped all its designs from the Spaceflight Chronology. I didn't know that when I drew Wasp because I didn't have the book yet, so my Museum article originally included an acknowledgement to the plagarist.
 

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Posted by Scott Nixon (Member # 540) on :
 
Since we're on the topic of the Spaceflight Chronology, something that amazed me when I went back and read through my copy last year was that in a couple articles I saw things that look like they were used later in Trek: there's an article talking about a mysterious extra-galactic probe, and the picture/design looks like the basis for the probe in STIV; and there's an article talking about the Romulan War ending with a Federation victory at the Battle of Cheron. Pretty neat to think that this book (published in 1980) was probably used to come up with things later on (in STIV, as mentioned above, and in TNG--"The Defector").
 

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Posted by Spike (Member # 322) on :
 
Let's continue this with new "old stuff".

http://home.arcor.de/spike730/misc/intrepid1.jpg
http://home.arcor.de/spike730/misc/intrepid1.jpg

And what do you think about this display from "The Measure of a Man". First word in the first line looks like "STARSHIP". But then the third row would be the class-names, which doesn't seem to fit.
http://home.arcor.de/spike730/questions3.jpg
 

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Posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov (Member # 742) on :
 
The Captain is Drew Duncan/Deckham/whetever.
I wish all those entries on the lower image's chart are ships, but I don't think we'll ever get to know what the really are
.
 

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Posted by Spike (Member # 322) on :
 
Drew Deighan. IIRC he was the writer of "Sins of the Father".
 

---