There's two screencaps I'd love to have if someone could make them.
1.) U.S.S. Saratoga from TVH, with registry readable if possible.
2.) U.S.S. Melbourne (Excelsior version) from "Emissary." Again, registry & name visible if possible.
Thanks, -MMoM
P.S. What are the clearest caps of the Operation Retrieve chart that we have? Is it possible to make any clearer ones?
-MM Posted by Ed / BWC (Member # 818) on :
Nope, sorry
Where is the image of the chart? I could try, but I'm not garunteeing anything...
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
I watched TVH the other day & caught the scene with the Saratoga. Although I don't have any screencaps, I watched the ship very closely when the Probe flew by it. I could clearly see that the ship's registry was NCC-1864, the same as the Reliant's. Probably still had the same name on it as well.
There are other scenes at the end of the movie with another Miranda and an Oberth docked in Spacedock. I have no doubt that they were labeled "Reliant" and "Grissom," respectively, with the same registry numbers.
[ June 30, 2002, 17:31: Message edited by: Dukhat ]
Posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov (Member # 742) on :
Sure it was 1864? Saratoga's is 1867, and I tried figuring out the registry some time ago, too. You can't see it that clear, at least not from the VHS-version. But I'm open for everything DVD-related. Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
quote:Saratoga's is 1867
According to the Encyclopedia, the Saratoga's registry is 1937. Which is of course not what was printed on the model, as it was just a reuse of the Reliant. I'm guessing that there wasn't a hurrendous call for ship relabeling during the movie period.
Posted by The359 (Member # 37) on :
The Encyclopedia actually says both NCC-1937 and NCC-1867. The later appears to be more likely, to me at least.
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
Where does it say 1867?
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
You guys, the number is NCC-1867. That is the number on the model. It's visible on the DVD, which I have seen, I just can't make screencaps. this was all settled LONG, long ago. (Do some old-thread digging.) The NCC-1937 from the Encyclopedia was a typo, (1994 edition gives right number in shiplist, wrong number in entry) and it got carried over into later editions. (Both shiplist and entry.)
Dukkie, you must have read wrong. I guess it could be mistaken for a 4...
-MMoM Posted by Dat (Member # 302) on :
Boring Wussy Cunt, I knew you could not keep the same name for more than a month. First you changed it from BWC to something else, then back to BWC, now you need to add "Ed / " right before it.
[ June 30, 2002, 21:09: Message edited by: Dat ]
Posted by Ed / BWC (Member # 818) on :
If you knew why I changed it you really wouldn't care.
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
It looked like 1864 to me. However, I'll take your word for it that it's really 1867. *(Goes & updates shiplist)*
Posted by Ryan McReynolds (Member # 28) on :
This is as good as it gets, unless I'm forgetting about another scene with the Saratoga in it...
(P.S. Although I'm rarely called upon to do so, I do have the ability to make caps from all nine movies and most of the better TOS episodes...)
[ July 01, 2002, 07:44: Message edited by: Ryan McReynolds ]
Posted by Spike (Member # 322) on :
At least the "7" is quite clear.
Posted by Dat (Member # 302) on :
It easily can be 1867 or 1937. All they had to do was switch the 4 into 7 or switch from 9 to 8 for Lantree. Though I really believe 1867 would have been easier. Perhaps the unnamed Miranda later in the movie was relabeled as 1937 so it was later easier to switch 9 to 8 for Lantree. (Though in all likelihood, the Saratoga was labeled 1867, the unnamed Miranda was not relabeled at all, and when it came time for Okuda to put the numbers in for the Encyclopedia, the Lantree's number stuck in his mind and he was going to put it down for the Saratoga, but even then when he was actually doing it, he made a typo and put a 9 down instead of 8.)
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
Thanks, Monsieur McReynolds.
As to the Encyclopedia errors, most of them either happen because of a simple typo, or because the numbers actually were given in two different forms in various places. (ie, the Zhukov, etc.)
Who knows, maybe Okuda actually had a display with the Saratoga as NCC-1937 in TVH? That could be where the Copernicus NCC-623 comes from too...
Anyhow, thanks again.
-MMoM
P.S.
Anybody got the Melbourne???
-MM Posted by iam2xtreme (Member # 836) on :
how do you take screen caps? if i know i will be willing to do it from dvd.
Posted by Wraith (Member # 779) on :
Well there's usually a button on the DVD control panel window or else just use the print screen button.
Posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov (Member # 742) on :
quote:Originally posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim: Who knows, maybe Okuda actually had a display with the Saratoga as NCC-1937 in TVH? That could be where the Copernicus NCC-623 comes from too... -MM
The Copernicus was there, with the proper NCC-623. When Kirk's gang is going to visit their new vessel, the first interior shot of spacedock shows an Oberth hanging on the left side of the screen. You can't see it the normal version, but thanks to a movie night at my local cinema some months ago, I have seen the ship. Trust me, it is there.
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
I *know* the Oberth-class ship was there, but it wasn't (in all likelyhood) labeled as Copernicus NCC-623, because when the model appeared on TNG it was still labeled as the Grissom from STIII.
-MMoM Posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov (Member # 742) on :
quote:Originally posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim: I *know* the Oberth-class ship was there, but it wasn't (in all likelyhood) labeled as Copernicus NCC-623, because when the model appeared on TNG it was still labeled as the Grissom from STIII.
-MMoM
But I'm quite sure the ship had the 623-regisrty (what was Grissom's? 639?). You were able to see it from below, so the registry on the underside of the saucer was visible. And I think it said 623.
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
Grissom was NCC-638. Are you sure you "really" saw 623, cause that would be wierd...
Why the hell would they relable it BACK to Grissom again?
-MMoM
[ July 02, 2002, 20:55: Message edited by: The Mighty Monkey of Mim ]
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
I'd have to (frighteningly ) agree with Mim on this one. The main purpose of relabeling a model is because the script has a reference to a specific ship's name. In this instance, there was no reference whatsoever to a "U.S.S. Copernicus" in ST:IV. Furthermore, the various models in Spacedock were just "filler" ships; the only vessels of consequence being the Excelsior & the Enterprise-A. So there was no reason for the labelers to go out of their way to relabel a ship that most likely wouldn't be seen clearly anyway.
I'm guessing Okuda just made the ship's name & registry number up for the 'pedia.
[ July 02, 2002, 21:24: Message edited by: Dukhat ]
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
Or alternatively, as I suggested, he may have done an Okudagram with the ship listed. (Seeing how neither the script nor anything else refers to a U.S.S. Copernicus, this might be likely, since he doesn't usually just make ships up. Sure, he might make the registries or classes up, but usually at least the ship *name* comes from the film/ep.) Also, like I said, this could be where the NCC-1937 for the Saratoga comes from...
Alex, are you sure you couldn't just have mistaken 638 for 623?
Any chance of getting a better screencap than this one?
-MMoM Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
What exactly are those shuttles flying over in that pic?
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
Ummm...one is a travel pod and the other is an orbital shuttle. Pretty standard faire around Spacedock.
-MMoM Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
No, I asked what those two shuttles were flying over. It looks like the top of another starship.
Posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov (Member # 742) on :
That's not the entire screen. You were able to see the registry, and there's a good chance it was 623 because this was one of the scenes I was waiting for to see if they really did it. I can understand that they don't rename the ships in the far background, but this one was even clearer than the Saratoga, and they renamed her, too. We're not talking about TV, on the big screen you can see far more details.
And the thing they are flying over is a Constitution-nacelle. As I said, there are things missing here (or they are not yet in the area of sight). The nacelle is a strange thing, because in the next scene there's another nacelle visible, obviously attached to another Constitution (you can see the pylon). You could assume it's the same ship, but this time, they are not flying over it but past it. So definitely not the same vessel.
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
Oh. Sorry Dukkie.
Yep, as Alex said, it's a connie nacelle. Actually, that's the ship my money's on for the Intrepid. (No stupid Mirandas!!!!!)
I mean, honestly, doesn't it make more sense that they'd replace a Connie with another Connie, rather than a Miranda?
Well anyways, despite Spikey, the ship's class is unknown.
-MMoM
P.S.
Alex: hmmmm....
-MM Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
*Captain's command throne spins slowly around to face the board* You will bring the screencaps HERE!!..... to ME!!.. then the DAY OF DECISION will begin!!! *slams armrest with metal fist*
[ July 03, 2002, 09:11: Message edited by: CaptainMike ]
Posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov (Member # 742) on :
quote:Originally posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim: Alex: hmmmm....
-MM
Whatever it is, it is not my fault.
Better now. Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
One of those unknown Connies was a Miranda. There were the Excelsior, Copernicus, Enterprise, an unknown Connie ("Intrepid"), and an unknown Miranda.
-MMoM Posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov (Member # 742) on :
Don't think so. Unknown 2 was a Constitution, definitely. And the nacelle - it could either be a Constitution or a Miranda, but there's no pylon attached baove the nacelle, so the only other possibility is a pylon being attached below the nacelle. This eliminates the possibility of it being a Miranda.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
quote:Originally posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov:
quote:Originally posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim: Alex: hmmmm....
-MM
Whatever it is, it is not my fault.
Better now.
Smashing work, surprisingly useful. However, I do seam to recall the shuttle taking a sharper turn before flying over the Excelsior.
Now go and do the same for the earlier spacedock sequences ;-)
BTW, my money is also on the Intrepid being one of those connies. Although I'm sure they were both labelled NCC-1701-A. As for the Miranda, it was most likely labelled as the Saratoga, since it seams unlikely that they'd reliable the model for such a brief shot. On the other hand, for all we know it could have been done up as the Lantree
[ July 03, 2002, 16:13: Message edited by: Reverend ]
Posted by Dat (Member # 302) on :
That seems to be a really bad way to position/dock your ships in Spacedock. Anyway, I also agree that one of the unknown Connies is the Intrepid (obviously not the same one from the episode with the giant space amoeba, but her replacement). The other unknown Conniw could be any name and registry, but I choose it to be Merrimack NCC-1715 just because we now know it's existance from ST1 (I assume it to be Connie class based on Franz Josephs Tech Manual). Finally I also agree the Miranda would be Lantree (just because it's the only other named and registered Miranda we know to be in this timeframe, other than Miranda herself)
Posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov (Member # 742) on :
I guess most of the disables ships were later recovered and towed back to the station. This would explain why the dock is filled with so many ships.
Posted by Raw Cadet (Member # 725) on :
quote:Originally posted by CaptainMike: *Captain's command throne spins slowly around to face the board* You will bring the screencaps HERE!!..... to ME!!.. then the DAY OF DECISION will begin!!! *slams armrest with metal fist*
*thinks about the last big Spacedock debate he remembers*
No. Before any more screencaps may be posted, everyone must arrive at an absolute, unchangeable opinion about what classes the mystery ships are. (Oh, and there can only be two different opinions, that way everyone may take sides; after all, there are ONLY two sides to any given argument.) That way, if clearer, more detailed screencaps, which might even show beyond the shadow of a doubt the classes of the mystery ships, are posted, those of the incorrect opinion (and there is always an incorrect opinion) can absolutely refuse to believe their own eyes.
Then the day of decision may begin.
[ July 03, 2002, 22:31: Message edited by: Raw Cadet ]
Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
um.. but i havent seen any screencaps so far. .. the only thing that has been posted is schematics of the travel pod and a map of the ship's layout within spacedock.. but you suggest i come to a decision as to what they are before seeing anything before seeing any screencaps? ok, sure thing, space cowboy
Posted by Raw Cadet (Member # 725) on :
A screencap is posted by The Mighty Monkey Of Mim on page two of this thread; the posts following the screencap are, in general, based upon viewing it.
Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
that screencap tells me nothing. we wont be able to see what the ships are, until we see good screencaps
Posted by Ryan McReynolds (Member # 28) on :
Okay, okay, give me a minute...
First we see two spacedock shuttles approaching Spacedock. No big deal.
Next we cut to inside Spacedock. There is the travel pod with our heroes following another spacedock shuttle. To the left is an Oberth. No registry is visible, and this is the most we ever see of it (despite Capt. Amasov's memory). This is allegedly the Copernicus. Below the pod is a nacelle, clearly that of a refit Constitution since no pylon consistent with a Miranda is visible.
[ July 04, 2002, 09:11: Message edited by: Ryan McReynolds ]
Posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov (Member # 742) on :
I was *nearly* right. I should change the schematic then.
Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
ive just gone ahead and rewatched the scene on my non-letterbox video. first off, i cant believe we think these ships are labeled as anything since the registries arent visible, except possibly the Copernicus. i dont think theres any possibility of the nacelles being Mirandas, since we'd be passing through the saucer of the first one, and the second nacelle has a visible connie pylon... also, your layout for the docking stack pattern is wrong, the second connie nacelle is facing aft-end towards the E-A, not fore-toward.
Posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov (Member # 742) on :
I don't have widescreen either, last time I saw it was months ago. So be happy I didn't add some Mirandas and Phase2-ships and Cardassian Keldons to the image because I 'thought I saw them'. Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
i like your plan of doing it from memory better than Raw Cadet's plan of 'let's decide what the ships are, then look at screencaps' idea.. by the way, with the advent of these screencaps, i think we can conclusively say that neither set of glimpsed nacelles belongs to a Miranda, so they must be connies, probably the E-A model.
Posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov (Member # 742) on :
Here it is - corrected and everything. The red numbers indicate the screenshots and the area they show. Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
completely unrelated, but does anyone else think that Spacedock is one of the most retarded things ever? how much stuff do they need to have a facility that is so many miles tall? is that all rooms for visitng crews and repair staff? and they just kind of leave the ships stacked up traffic-jam style?
anywho.. yes, good schematic.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
No disrespect to Capt Kyle intended, but here is a more correct version of what was where...
[Edit] whoops, looks like he beat me to it
[ July 04, 2002, 11:26: Message edited by: Reverend ]
Posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov (Member # 742) on :
quote:Originally posted by Reverend: whoops, looks like he beat me to it
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
Cool! Next, someone has to come up with a simple flash animation with the ships in their respective places as the travel pod moves between them.
Keep in mind also that the odd layout of where the ships are could be because many of them are in motion around the dock. According to the picture above, they could be backing the Excelsior into a berth close to the central core thing, or she could be through the closest space doors (unlikely, as Sulu was half boasting about getting that ship); the Oberth and first Connie are entering or leaving. The second Connie and E-A are in "parking" berths, albeit at odd angles.
Mark
[ July 04, 2002, 12:55: Message edited by: Mark Nguyen ]
Posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov (Member # 742) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mark Nguyen: Cool! Next, someone has to come up with a simple flash animation with the ships in their respective places as the travel pod moves between them.
But I need Reverend's help for it. I'm not that experienced in creating flash animations. Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
And you think I am?
Posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov (Member # 742) on :
Then I think we have a problem. We could create 3D-meshes and render a little sequence from different angles then.
(Oh, and do you really think the pod made a 90�-turn? Looked more like a 45�-turn to me. That's the reason my spacedock looks more messed up than yours does. Maybe we should find an answer for this one first before attempting to create the movie sequence. )
[ July 04, 2002, 17:12: Message edited by: Cpt. Kyle Amasov ]
Posted by Raw Cadet (Member # 725) on :
Don't mind me.
[(Second) Edit: the message I originally posted probably should have been sent as a personal message. I have now sent it as such, so I erased it here. This whole post may be deleted, with extreme prejudice.]
[ July 05, 2002, 15:17: Message edited by: Raw Cadet ]
Posted by Dat (Member # 302) on :
Here's a thought. Does anyone think that Spacedock and Drydock should actually swtich names? Spacedock seems more like a drydock (docking ships outside of and protected from space) and Drydock seems more like a Spacedock (docking ships in and not protected from space)
Posted by Spike (Member # 322) on :
quote:Originally posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim: Why the hell would they relable it BACK to Grissom again?
Maybe they only relabeled the underside of the saucer and the upperside was still labeled "USS Grissom".
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
Okay, that's a really cool reconstruction. The Miranda I was thinking of was seen earlier in the film.
I guess ships shifted positions between then and the end sequence. Not at all a problem, considering we have no real idea of how long it was in between.
-MMoM Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
NOBODY HAS THE F*CKING MELBOURNE??? Posted by Snay (Member # 411) on :
Apparently fucking not!
Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
hm.. the advice we seem to be constantly giving the monkey boy that he consistently does not take, would be that he should calm the fuck down... oh well.
Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :
"Fuck" the Melbourne! It had the 6xxxx registry. We were told that. We've checked images on numerous occasions and found that to be true. Move on. Find something else. Find a woman and "fuck" her. Anything.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
I know this is now several million years later, but a question regarding the first Constituion nacelle seen in this shot. If it is a Constitution, shouldn't you be able to see the back of the saucer on the left hand side of the sceen? Aren't the nacelles and saucer of the refit-connie at the same height?
You can just about see the registry on the second Connie nacelle too, although I think it's at too extreme an angle to be readable. But unreadable registries doesn't normally stop people from attempting...
And do both those Connie nacelles look strangely dull to everyone else? Shouldn't they have running lights, or spotlights, or something on them?
Posted by Ryan McReynolds (Member # 28) on :
The top edge of the saucer is roughly on the same level as the bottom edge of the nacelle... since the bottom of the nacelle is not visible, neither should the saucer be.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
So, I assume then that that is not the top of the ship's bridge that's sticking out above the nacelle?
Posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov (Member # 742) on :
There are two possibilities: either they used the Reliant or E-A to shoot this ship (assuming they didn't take a single, large nacelle for this scene because it would have been easier to handle or to shoot). And since there's no pylon on top of the nacelle visible, it has to be a Constitution.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
All these years I wondered what people were talking about when they mentioned other ships in Spacedock. Is this what happens when you do not visit a theater often as a child and purchase your videotapes in unpopular pan-and-scan format?
But I have seen the light!
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
quote:Originally posted by TSN: So, I assume then that that is not the top of the ship's bridge that's sticking out above the nacelle?
No. That nubbin is on bot the Connie and Miranda nacelles at that point, just where the inset bit at the top front ends.
Posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov (Member # 742) on :
quote:Originally posted by Sol System: But I have seen the light!
You mean the position light on top of the nacelle?
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
![[Confused]](confused.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
) agree with Mim on this one. The main purpose of relabeling a model is because the script has a reference to a specific ship's name. In this instance, there was no reference whatsoever to a "U.S.S. Copernicus" in ST:IV. Furthermore, the various models in Spacedock were just "filler" ships; the only vessels of consequence being the Excelsior & the Enterprise-A. So there was no reason for the labelers to go out of their way to relabel a ship that most likely wouldn't be seen clearly anyway.![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
![[Cool]](cool.gif)