Did Bill George build this model as a personal project and then loan it to the studio or was there a different story behind it. I can't remember...
Thanks, -MMoM Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
I believe that was the case, yes. IIRC, the script called for the Pasteur to be a medical ship, and George's already-built model was exactly the type of design TPTB were looking for.
Posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov (Member # 742) on :
That's it. At least the story reported by the TNG companion.The question is: what's the deal with the Olympic/Hope mess-up? George gives them the model. Okuda creates a dedication plaque. Okuda decides to redesign the plaque or - for some other reason - comes up with the idea that 'Olympic-class' might sound cooler. So he changes it. Then there's this registry-error (from the Encyclopedia).
I like the idea of the Olympic being some sort of sub-class medical variant of the Hope class cruiser or frigate or something like that. But can anyone tell us the real story about it?
Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :
I thought that Olympic was Bill George's name for it, but Okuda's dedication plaque (seen on an art department computer in the "Journey's End" Making-of-AGT... docu) said Hope (which is what was adopted initially in fan circles as the name for it), and that it then got switched back to Olympic for the Encyclopedia 2.0, prompting the online confusion that has existed ever since.
[ July 08, 2002, 12:45: Message edited by: The_Tom ]
Posted by USSMillennium74754 (Member # 822) on :
^ I always assumed that as well. Hope did make sense as a class name... nice homage to the WWII hospital ship. Okuda must've found out George's original name after AGT and had a change of heart. Now I'm wondering if the model was originally labeled something else before it became the Pasteur. Posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov (Member # 742) on :
quote:Originally posted by USSMillennium74754: Now I'm wondering if the model was originally labeled something else before it became the Pasteur.
[ July 08, 2002, 17:01: Message edited by: Cpt. Kyle Amasov ]
Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :
My non-animated response to that would be "Most likely yes." USS Pasteur was probably specified in the script before they managed (though a spate of luck, IIRC) to hear about this model of Mr. George's. The most likely name for the model to bear before then would be USS Olympic, methinks.
Indeed, the relevant scenes in All Good Things... may well have been filmed before the inside of the Pasteur was matched to an appropriate outside. If that was the case, then "Hope class" would have been printed onto the bridge plaque with the intent that they'd use a brand-new model. It would only have been later on that they discovered they could use Bill George's ship that he'd already dubbed Olympic and just paint on the name and registry of the Pasteur and (if George hadn't put them there already) the medical icons as well.
Posted by USSMillennium74754 (Member # 822) on :
quote:Originally posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov:
Hey, why couldn't I have seen this one sooner? It might have been useful over at the TrekBBS. Posted by Siegfried (Member # 29) on :
quote:The most likely name for the model to bear before then would be USS Olympic, methinks.
I'm never really gotten into shiplist threads, but this brings a question to mind. If Bill George did have the model originally labeled something else (for instance, The_Tom's USS Olympic example), does that mean it also originally had a different registry?
Posted by USSMillennium74754 (Member # 822) on :
I'm guessing it was probably a.) originally marked with the Pasteur's registry (unlikely unless George knew about Okuda's numbering system), b.) originally with a much lower or simpler registry (i.e. NCC-10000 or something, which is very likely), or c.) didn't have a registry at all (also possible, since it was just a "spare" model and may have just sat around without decals until needed).
Posted by Toadkiller (Member # 425) on :
quote:Originally posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov: I like the idea of the Olympic being some sort of sub-class medical variant of the Hope class cruiser or frigate or something like that. But can anyone tell us the real story about it?
From a historical sense it would be a medical variant of a passenger liner or a freighter (the current USN h-ships are converted tankers for instance). Basically the usefulness issues I would see are speed, useful internal space, low resource cost - pick two.
[ July 09, 2002, 00:56: Message edited by: Toadkiller ]
Posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov (Member # 742) on :
I don't even want to think about the possibility of another name for the ship. But the low registry could indicate that this was the original registry for the vessel (USS Olympic or whatever), just the name was changed for the show.
How comes no one wants to do the next step and present a ship with an 80,000+ registry. Think about it; every time we saw future ships (I don't think Relativity does count) it had a registry lower than 80,000. And TNG-timeline (Voyager) did never reach the 80,000, either.
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
My guess is that they were doing that on purpose. TPTB didn't want to show a new Starfleet vessel from 20+ years in the future because they didn't want to spend money building a model that would only be used in one episode. They compensated for not having newer ships by giving the older ships lower registries for their time, making it seem that older ships were still being used in the 25th century (which is kind of far-fetched; TPTB are basically saying that there will be no advances in starship propulsion, other than that silly "warp 13" throwaway line). But I see your point. I would have liked to have seen newer, more advanced ships in the future sequences of "All Good Things," "The Visitor," "Timeless," "Endgame," and the like.
Posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov (Member # 742) on :
But think of Harry's Nova, for example. The Excelsior was in use for a century, with registries from 2000 up to 62000. It wouldn't be that far-fetched if starfleet still builds ships of that class (relatively new during Voyager) twenty years later.
Posted by J (Member # 608) on :
Let's not forget... the Constitution Class, some 30-40 years old at the time of the Excelsior Project was being refit so that it would have technology similar to the Excelsior and be easily modified with Transwarp [as some have pointed out to me, the Enterprise did have consoles that said Transwarp].
Posted by Spike (Member # 322) on :
quote:as some have pointed out to me, the Enterprise did have consoles that said Transwarp
No, Shane Johnson faked these transwarp bridge displays for his book "Mr. Scott's Guide to the Enterprise".
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
Really? You sure they weren't authentic, Spikey? I thought I remembered Johnson claiming they were, after being accused of altering them. Posted by USSMillennium74754 (Member # 822) on :
Check questions 12 and 13. I do agree with Shane Johnson's reasoning on this one... heck, he had no idea what TNG or future movies would bring.
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
If Johnson's info is truthful, I find it ironic that the producers at the time decided against the Enterprise-A being an Excelsior class out of fan distaste, only to have the Enterprise-B end up as an Excelsior years later.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
"Pregnant guppy"? Isn't the term "pregnant" usually reserved for things that are overly fat and rounded/lumpy? Not for a design that was the sleekest and most streamlined we had seen SF use so far?
Posted by J (Member # 608) on :
It still looks awful....
*puts on flame-proof suit*
Posted by Edipissed Wrecks (Member # 510) on :
*whoosh...fire shooting.....burn* consider yourself flamed, J. the Excelsior is a Beauty!
Posted by Austin Powers (Member # 250) on :
Well, yes and no!
I admit I don't like the original Excelsior class very much. But it's not that bad. Only I always thought something was missing on that ship.
Funnily enough, the SFX guys added just these details I missed on the original when they turned it into the Excelsior refit for Generations. I therefor prefer the Enterprise-B type Excelsior ships.
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
The Excelsior had the odds stacked against her, really. In ST3, she was introduced as the baddie ship, and the design certainly reflected the "barnyard bully" nature somewhat - especially the bulging secondary hull that was made all the much more "muscular" by using a teeny weeny deeply inserted deflector dish. The chase scene between the Excelsior and the Enterprise relied a lot on the visual impression of a petite, "feminine" E escaping the burly, brawny hitman of the big bad boys...
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
If I recall correctly, wasn't the original ship built to be a contempary to the Enterprise-D. There was the argument that, to the casual fan, other Starfleet ships didn't look different enough from the Enterprise that someone who watched the show only occasionally could spot the difference instantly. If they showed an Ambassador, for instance, the viewers wouldn't know it wasn't the Enterprise.
So with that in mind, George built a model that could, in no way, be mistaken for the Enterprise.
And Johnson said "Turbo-elevators", the only phrase in all of Trek that I find more annoying than "Enterprise-class".
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
quote: And on a vastly larger scale, know that there IS a God, and that He knows your name and has stood at your side every moment, and that He has a unique plan for your life.
Well, that's cleared that up then.
Posted by Masao (Member # 232) on :
I remember reading a critique of Excelsior from an issue of Cinefantastique when STIII was released. IIRC, the writer compared the secondary hull to a squeezed toothpaste tube.
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