I have the Stargazer as being mentioned in all of the following:
TNG The Battle TNG Coming Of Age TNG The Measure of a Man TNG The Child TNG Allegiance TNG The Wounded TNG Chain Of Command TNG Tapestry
Obviously, "The Battle" is an easy one. But what about the others? Most of them are covered in the Encyclopedia ("Tapestry"; "The Measure of a Man"; "Allegiance"; "The Wounded"; "Tapestry") but what was mentioned in "Coming of Age", "The Child", and "Chain of Command"?
Thanks, -MMoM Posted by Dat (Member # 302) on :
Picard did mention to Scotty that his last "great love" was the Stargazer of which he commanded. But that's a trivial matter and not of great importance. Oh, yes, the episode was "Relics"
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
The Stargazer was mentioned in "Chain of Command" because Picard was selected for the commando mission thanks to a research project that he'd commanded while on the Stargazer.
Posted by Spike (Member # 322) on :
Coming of Age
REMMICK
Do you believe the captain is emotionally and psychologically fit for command of this starship? And there's nothing in his history or personality that would suggest... mental lapses?
TROI
Nothing.
REMMICK
Not even the Ferengi incident aboard his old starship, the Stargazer?
The Child
WESLEY
People say you're very old. And that you knew Captain Picard when he was on the Stargazer.
GUINAN
No, I never knew the captain till I came on board.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
I really wish they would have solidified Gunian and Picard's back story a bit more. Even if we never found out about it, I wish it would've been consistant. Picard's encounter with Guninan in the 1800's is reason for Guinan to have a bond with Picard immediately upon meeting him for the first time in the 24th century, but not a reason for Picard to trust Guinan at all until he'd known her for a while. I've heard other thoeries (can't remember if they were offical or not) that Guinan was actually aboard the Stargazer.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
An official theory is still just a theory. And yeah, while it would have been nice, I really doubt that whoever wrote "The Child" was told "Oh, by the way, in four years time we're going to go back to the 19th century ad have Picard meet Guinan from that time, okay?"
The main problem is that the people who were in charge of Trek by the time of Time's Arrow (Berman, Pillar, and to a lesser extend Moore, Braga and Taylor) were, with the exception of Berman, not around at the start of season 2, and so weren't aware that line existed. Besides, it's only really this one episode that stands out.
Regarding the Stargazer, I can't recall any other instances, but as a useless fact, there's only one episode where Picard doesn't actually have the Stargazer model in his ready room: The Battle.
(And don't start on the "It's not the Stargazer because the registry is wrong" thing, or I put my fingers in my ears and sing "lalala".)
Posted by CaptainMike: Director's Edition (Member # 709) on :
I don't see any conflict between 'The Child's line and 'Time's Arrow's events.. why would there be a problem?
Obviously, she had met the captain in the 19th century but wasnt going to drop hints or anything until it happened in the 24th. Either way the Stargazer has nothing to do with it...
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
quote:Regarding the Stargazer, I can't recall any other instances, but as a useless fact, there's only one episode where Picard doesn't actually have the Stargazer model in his ready room: The Battle.
Weren't there a few episodes which had a Constitution model in place of the Stargazer model? I thought this was because before "The Battle" the Stargazer was supposed to be a Connie. However, IIRC, the Constellation Stargazer model was seen in "Encounter at Farpoint." Was "The Battle" filmed before "EAF"? This is really confusing....
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
That's what I was referring to. "The Battle" (and only that episode) had a gold sprayed AMT model of the Enterprise-A there, instead of the made-out-of-the-AMT-Enterprise-model Stargazer design, which was done by (I think) Greg Jein. Which is why it says NCC-7100 on it (decal sheet trickery, although why they didn't go with 7101 and save themselves a decal sheet, I do't know).
Anyway, the art people had always intended it to represent the Stargazer (which was mentioned in the shows bible). However, when filming "The Battle", the original plan was to use the Constitution-refit model they had. The art department managed to change their minds, although only after Geordi's line had been said. As a result, Jein only had a very short amount of time to build the full size Stargazer miniture, and so he nicked the ready room model to use as a reference, which is why it isn't in that episode.
Which does mean that he knocked up the miniture extrememly quickly. How long does it take to build one of those things anyway?
Posted by Dat (Member # 302) on :
Well it must have been really really fast as not only Geordi said "Constitution", but so had Data and Wesley. And when Data had said it, he was on the Stargazer reading off the dedication plaque so the set was already complete along with that plaque. Plus remember that in the previous episode the desktop model was still in the ready room. So really the episode would have already been in post-production when the desision was made for the new model. Of course, when did the episode first air? Around the winter? Soon after? If so Jein could have spent the short hiatus building the model and having it filmed before having the episode completed and aired soon after the hiatus.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
Or it could have been pushed back. It did have an above average number of SFX anyway. I always believed that the production went roughly one week pre-production, one week shooting, one week post-production, and I doubt Jein could have built it and gotten it to the SFX company in time for them to film it in less than a fortnight.
I don't recall Data and Wesley saying "Constitution-class" though. Got an exact quote?
And the dedication plaques in the Encyclopedia say "Constellation class", or were they altered after the fact?
Posted by Spike (Member # 322) on :
There's no picture of the Stargazer's plaque in the Encyclopedia. Data read from the plaque:
And Wesley said "Constellation-class" when the Stargazer came into sensor range AFAIR.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
I'm pretty sure it was Geordi who said that.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
It's definetely Geordi. And his line is definitely dubbed over. I don't recall Data saying it, but does it looked dubbed when he says it?
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
The unnofical transcript does have Wesley and Data's lines. But it also says "Constitution-class" throughout, and has several other lines different from the aired episode.
Posted by Dat (Member # 302) on :
I have the episode recorded and noticed that both Brent and Wil had originally said "Constitution" as per the script, but had also dubbed over it with "Constellation". It's quite evident that the lines were dubbed over as if you look carefully at how their lips were moving they had said the former.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
Gotcha. So if three people said "Constitution", then it seems likely that all the way through primary filming they were planning on using the Enterprise-A model. Which makes the lack of Stargazer model even more curious.
Two possibilities:
1/ The "Jein took it to reference" story is true, but he was doing it initially without the approval of the producers, hoping that Probert and Sternbach would convince them to change their minds.
2/ TPTB decided that since the Stargazer was now a Constitution class ship, they might as well have a Constitution class model in Picard's ready room.
Or perhaps a little from both columns.
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
I think you've hit the nail on the head, Liam. This wouldn't have been the only time that Greg Jein took the time to make a new model to replace whatever old model or stock footage TPTB were previously going to use.
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)