I'll just mention this quickly as I really should be getting some sleep. I picked up the new Ships of the Line calendar today, $24.95 from Angus & Robertson. It's damn fine work and probably the best so far of the SotLs (I'll go into greater detail tomorrow). The only real disappointment is that it uses the horizontal orientation of the 2001 calendar (how the hell are you supposed to hang it?). Anyway, more later.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
YOU should be getting sleep!?! It's only midnight in WA!
I've got mine on order from one of those Calendar places that you see in the middle of 'shopping malls'/'shopping centres'.
In their list of calendars there was
A Daily calendar A "Captain's" Calendar An Enterprise Calendar SotL calendar and a Nemesis Calendar I think.
And SotL is not meant to be hung - it's Starship porn! ;o)
Posted by Starship Millennium (Member # 822) on :
Actually, I'm sort of glad that they returned to the horizontal format... I like the widescreen images.
As I've stated before, it's better than last year, but still isn't better than 2001's. There are some excellent shots, like the NX-01 in orbit of Earth (love the detail!) and the F-104 next to the original Enterprise (pulled off seamlessly), but some were just plain misses, like the Enterprise-D saucer on Veridian III (they could have at least tried to do it in CGI, and even then there are better ways to show the E-D) and Decker's shuttlecraft heading towards the planet killer (the Constellation would have been a better choice, but I guess they wanted to show off the Galileo mesh). Fortunately, there isn't anything as bad as the month of workbees.
And on a side note: unless I missed a name in the credits, it looks like Eden FX, Digital Domain, and even Foundation had nothing to do with the calendar, when I know they have been for the past two years. Anyone know if Mojo worked on the calendar this year?
Posted by Boris (Member # 713) on :
Er, don't confuse Digital Domain with Digital Muse! The former did effects for Apollo 13, Titanic, and now Nemesis, the latter for the sixth and seventh seasons of DS9 and some VOY episodes. Most of the people from Muse went to Eden FX after it was dissolved.
I posted a review at amazon.com a while ago -- it was helpful to three out of three people, the highest rating any reviewer of the calendar received, and was even a Spotlight Review for a few days. I won't brag more than that, however.
I'm not sure about exactly who worked on the previous calendars, but Mojo is a freelancer now, and I understand the images in the calendar were made by him unless credited otherwise. The other people credited seem to be his former colleagues from Foundation Imaging and a few others (Andrew Bradbury built the Defiant model and contributed an image for the calendar). I'd guess that the Steve Burg credited on one image is the same guy who designed the Starfuries for B5, for instance, although I'm not sure he ever worked for Foundation.
I didn't like the calendar as much as the previous two, simply because it seems that in trying to make the Unseen Frontier as unseen as possible, he decided to make this an almost totally "seen" frontier. The Veridian image is even credited ILM, suggesting that it's rather a framegrab. I could've got more original images by browsing through some of the posts at the 3D Gladiators forum, which is where Mojo has been trying to recruit some of his contributors for Unseen Frontier.
I'm not saying that one couldn't have been original even with such a tight restriction, but I don't feel they succeeded here. Nothing could grab my attention as much as that pilot next to a workbee standing on the Ent-D's nacelle pylon (from the 2002 calendar).
Boris
Posted by Starship Millennium (Member # 822) on :
quote:Originally posted by Boris: Nothing could grab my attention as much as that pilot next to a workbee standing on the Ent-D's nacelle pylon (from the 2002 calendar).
What I would give for that to be in widescreen format...
Posted by SoundEffect (Member # 926) on :
I liked the shot of the Escape Pods decending to safety with the burning Miranda Class Leonov plummeting through the atmosphere. Would it have killed them to put a registry on the hull and the pods? Inquiring minds like mine want to know!
I hadn't noticed before that the CG Defiant had a 'United Federation of Planets' marking behind the nose section before.
[ November 15, 2002, 08:39: Message edited by: SoundEffect ]
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
Definitely looking forward to getting this calendar!
Boris: Is Mojo still working on "The Unseen Frontier," then? I thought it'd been shelved...
Posted by Boris (Member # 713) on :
I'm not sure about the book's current status, but it was very much in the works a year ago when Mojo had a completed calendar cover and a pretty good idea about its contents. See this thread:
In the Veridian scene, what is that rather large shuttle? It looks like a City of New Orleans runabout, almost. It's the one right next to the word "July".
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
quote:Originally posted by Starship Millennium:
Fortunately, there isn't anything as bad as the month of workbees.
Well, it should be a good Calendar!! I *LOVED* That shot - and no I'm not being sarcastic. It was a really REALISTIC shot. Well done to Mojo for that one. It was like you were literally walking out onto a deck of ?space station? and seeing all the neatly parked work-bees. I loved it. Very realistic rendering.
quote:Originally posted by Starship Millennium: Anyone know if Mojo worked on the calendar this year?
Mark Nguyen might know - he worked on "Unseen" with Mojo I think.
Andrew
Posted by LET CAPTAIN = MIKE THEN GOTO 10 (Member # 709) on :
i loved the workbees.
the fuzzy defiant i could have done without.. same for the 'planetside' voyager and k't'inga.. yuk
hey im looking at mine right now.. too bad he forgot to include lotsa empty uniforms on the Exeter bridge. oh well, no biggie.
Posted by Fleet-Admiral Michael T. Colorge (Member # 144) on :
I wanna see the workbees and the escape pods also.
Posted by Dax (Member # 191) on :
OK, some comments:
The Ent-E on the cover, I'm thinking it's the new model from Digital Domain. The E is looking good here. The blocky bits under the nacelles (at the end of the pylons) look a bit different in that they angle into the nacelle -- perhaps one of the changes that Eaves requested.
May, all those Defiant/Voyager type escape pods coming from a Miranda is a bit unheard of. Looks good though.
Although the centrefold is "stock footage" from FC, it's still nice to have a big and clear picture of that scene.
July, again, some nice stock from Generations. I would've prefered something new instead though.
August, Andrew Bradbury's new CG Defiant is very impressive. Easily the best CG Defiant model so far. It's likely a mistake that the Jemmy bug is firing from its back-side.
Overall I think this is the best quality SotL so far. The CG models are consistently of good quality. There's also some nice variety with plenty of colour, atmosphere, and realism. I'm gonna be forced to hang this on the wall but also to hang my head to view it.
Posted by Topher (Member # 71) on :
quote:Originally posted by LET CAPTAIN = MIKE THEN GOTO 10: hey im looking at mine right now.. too bad he forgot to include lotsa empty uniforms on the Exeter bridge. oh well, no biggie.
There's no scene with the Exeter in the calendar...
Posted by Austin Powers (Member # 250) on :
Oh yes there is. It's the picture of the month between March and April... Posted by Dr. Phlox (Member # 878) on :
quote:Originally posted by Topher:
quote:Originally posted by LET CAPTAIN = MIKE THEN GOTO 10: hey im looking at mine right now.. too bad he forgot to include lotsa empty uniforms on the Exeter bridge. oh well, no biggie.
There's no scene with the Exeter in the calendar...
He must be talking about 2002's calendar, the November picture is of the misty bridge of the USS Exeter.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
quote:Originally posted by Austin Powers: Oh yes there is. It's the picture of the month between March and April...
Heh heh, Lousy Smarch weather!!
Posted by SoundEffect (Member # 926) on :
quote:Originally posted by Topher: In the Veridian scene, what is that rather large shuttle? It looks like a City of New Orleans runabout, almost. It's the one right next to the word "July".
The Farragut rescue shuttles are similar (same?) as the Star Trek VI shuttle that delivers Kirk & co. to Enterprise. It's like the Jenolen without the warp engines. I was surprised that the Farragut's registry was on the side...hadn't noticed that before...
Oops, I was lookin' at the big blue things. The one near "July" is just the @ss end of a type 7 shuttle.
[ November 15, 2002, 08:41: Message edited by: SoundEffect ]
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
SM: This is Mojo's calendar through and through. Flare people's comments did assist in the creation of this calendar... Can we get a listing of what each month is?
Mark <--hasn't seen all of '03, but LOVES '02
Posted by SoundEffect (Member # 926) on :
January- Enterprise Shuttlepod 1 leaving the P'Jem Monastery.
February- Klingon Bird of Prey gliding under the Golden Gate Bridge.
March- The T'Plana 'Hath and 3 MOV Vulcan Shuttles lifting off from ShirKahr City on Vulcan.
April- NX-01 in Earth orbit. Shot is looking forward from the back of the starboard nacelle.
May- Miranda Class USS Leonov with nacelles venting plasma crashing through the atmosphere of a moon of a gas giant, while dozens of Defiant-type escape pods float to the surface.
June- Several Species 8472 bioships travel through Fluidic Space.
Centerfold- An upside down shot of the Enterprise-E with Picard, Worf, and Hawke strolling towards the deflector.
July- Farragut and Enterprise-D shuttles along with several survivors on the crashed saucer on Veridian III.
August- Aft view of the USS Defiant being fired upon by a Jem'Hadar Fighter in the atmosphere of a gas giant planet.
September- Enterprise shuttlecraft NCC-1701/6 with Matt Decker on board flies into the maw of the Doomsday Machine.
October- Two Borg cubes flying low over a charred forest after assimilating the native culture.
November- USS Voyager on a flyby of Los Angeles in 1996.
December- 'Wing Cam' photograph from Capt Christopher's Fighter showing the USS Enterprise within Earth's atmosphere.
Posted by LET CAPTAIN = MIKE THEN GOTO 10 (Member # 709) on :
what was the name of 1701 shuttle 6?
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
I'm gonna need some scans...
pretty please
Posted by Mojo (Member # 536) on :
Hey gang
I'm glad to see the calendar is finally making it's way out there! I love reading the comments and thought I'd chime in and explain what led to the images...
First of all, the unoffical theme of the calendar was 'environmental.' I noticed that people seemed to react best to the previous images that featured a ship in some form of unique setting, not just space (the snow crash and inside-nebula shot of the 2001 edition being prime examples). So, I thought I would come up with environments for each month of the 2003 calendar.
I started with a list of my favorite scenes from the shows and movies that reflected this, and then moved on to new ideas:
COVER: Since "Nemesis" will be in theaters soon, we all thought it would be a good idea to feature the E on the cover. This is actually a model made by Dave Lombardi from Digital Muse a few years back, and he was kind enough to allow me to use it for the calendars. The background is a real photograph, color-shifted. If you look closely you'll notice it's a binary sunset. There was an alternate (very different) version of this cover from behind that I abandoned and if you're all nice I'll upload an image of it.
JANUARY: Eric Chauvin is the digital matte painter for Trek, and I wanted to showcase some of his incredible work. He graciously allowed me to use his matte painting of the Vulcan monestary, and I added the shuttlepod in the foreground taking off.
FEBRUARY: This was one of my favorite shots in all the Trek movies - the BOP sweeping under the bridge was just so cool I was itching to recreate it. After sifting through hundreds of pics of the GG Bridge, I finally came across the background you see in the image.
MARCH: Daren loves the animated series and we both agreed it would be nice to see more of Vulcan, so this image was born. Interesting to note is that the 'First Contact' Vulcan shuttle is not a new CG model - it's the 6 inch plastic model placed into a compurter generated environment. Sort of the reverse of the rest of the calendar!
APRIL: Since this is the first post-Enterprise calendar, I wanted to represent the show in more than one image. I figured showing off the model would be a good idea, since we haven't seen many new angles of it since the initial publicity renders. It really shows the amazing detail modeler Pierre Drolet put into it!
MAY: When trying to think of ships to feature that hadn't been used before, I remembered we had some great escape pods from "The Year of Hell" that deserved some screen time. I had a vision in my head of abandoning ship and touching down on a strange, new world - very much like a pulp sci-fi book cover. This is the sort of playground Steve Burg thrives in, so I asked him if he would like to contribute an image - fortunately he said yes! (Steve is a conceptual designer here in Hollywood who has helped forge the look of movies like The Abyss, Total Recall, T2, and contact. He designed all the aliens and many of the ships on B5, as well as Species 8472 and the Bioship).
JUNE: The aforementioned Bioship. Someone in this forum said they wanted to see it, so there ya go.
JULY: This is also one of my fondest 'wow look at that' moments from a Trek film, and I know *I'd* be excited to see that shot as a big fold out. It would have been a huge undertaking to re-create it as a CG image, and ultimately I decided why bother? It's perfect as-is and ILM was kind enough to send us the image.
CENTERFOLD: See above.
AUGUST: I wanted to feature Andrew's excellent new Defiant model, plus "Starship Down" was a great atmospheric moment in Star Trek. Andrew, of course, deserved the chance to do the image!
SEPTEMBER: Doug Drexler made a great TOS shuttlecraft, and I wanted to find a place for it. Originally, I had the shuttle parked next to a farm in Iowa and had a caption along the lines of "Kirk visits relatives" but it was decided that the image was too arcane and most people wouldn't get it. I was in an electronics store and saw a screen saver that looked a lot like the maw of the planet killer, and thus the idea was borne.
OCTOBER: This is actually a shot that was supposed to be in Voyager! In "Unimatrix Zero," the original script called for a scene in which a cube was hovering over a forest, searching out renegades. We were very excited about doing this, as the thought of the cube in a new environment was quite appealing. Ultimately, the shot was cut for budgetary reasons but I was never able to get the vision of it out of my head. After seeing a great shot of trees which had been decimated by acid rain in Life magazine, I knew I had my background.
NOVEMBER: From the start, I knew Voyager over LA would be one of the images. After much searching, I found the perfect shot of LA from Griffith Park, and spend a LOT of time making the Voyager's hull truly look as if it were illuminated by a late sunset.
DECEMBER: This was another one we knew we had to have. Rob Bonchune found the great shot of the F-104, and the rest was elementary.
So there you have it! All in all I am very pleased with the way it turned out and congratulate all the talented folks who pitched in. As some have noticed, my credit is missing - not by design, I assure you. This is something I am still looking into.
I'll be happy to answer any questions and answer any criticisms.
Mojo
PS: I'm tickled that the Workbee debate from the 2002 calendar still rages on. It's interesting that for every person who hates it, another has told me it's their favorite!
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
I liked it. It's artsy & different.
Thanks for the comments, Mojo! Everyone, let's be all nice & stuff and hope he shows us more!
And a question: Why USS Leonov?
Mark
[ November 15, 2002, 13:53: Message edited by: Mark Nguyen ]
Posted by Mojo (Member # 536) on :
Why Leonov? Why not?
Actually, Pocket Books picked that title for the caption - the ship itself is probably labeled RELIANT :-)
Posted by The359 (Member # 37) on :
*plays nice so I can see some purdy pictures*
Posted by TheF0rce (Member # 533) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mojo: Why Leonov? Why not?
Actually, Pocket Books picked that title for the caption - the ship itself is probably labeled RELIANT :-)
There's a reliant cgi? 8-O
Posted by Rogue Starship (Member # 756) on :
Was the Leonov a new ship name or have we seen it before???
Is their a readable regestery number??
Posted by Rogue Starship (Member # 756) on :
Was the Leonov a new ship name or have we seen it before???
Is their a readable regestery number??
Posted by Solommagnus de Pym (Member # 239) on :
There's a reliant cgi?
Uh, yes.
Is their a readable regestery number??
Uh, no. "the ship itself is probably labeled RELIANT" - The person who made the calendar.
Posted by SoundEffect (Member # 926) on :
Unfortunately, it's a completely naked Miranda Class. It's quite obvious in the photo that there's no name or number on the hull at all!
The escape pods aren't even marked with a name or registry.
I know there are a lot of technical nit-pickers here on the forum, so I hope it's not just me feeling that leaving a name/registry off a Starfleet ship is as blasphemous as having a beautiful picture of a sports car with no tires on it!
BTW, The Shuttlecraft 1701/6 is cleverly lit so they didn't have to make up a name for the side...it's too bright near the front.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Hey Mojo! Nice to see you posting again!
Heh, talking about fluidic space and then escape-pods... wouldn't it suck if you had to abandon ship near a rift to fluidic space and your escape-pod ended up in fluidic space as the rift closed! heh.
So what is next-years theme Mojo? How is the push for Unseen Frontier coming along!?!
Andrew
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
quote:Originally posted by TheF0rce: There's a reliant cgi? 8-O
Yes, the model was labeled as the Reliant for that prettyful cover on the Mag issue that was dedicated to the TWOK DE. (Don't get confused though, there were NO new cgi shots in the film, just this one for the cover of the issue.) Posted by LET CAPTAIN = MIKE THEN GOSUB 420 (Member # 709) on :
im assuming its the Miranda CGI from DS9, altered. or was that lost with changes in CGi production houses?
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
Foundation HAD a model of the Miranda/Reliant, which ended up used in the Starship Spotter (and other appearances in DS9 and VOY). While I was working on UF, I recall Mojo had people working on a super-accurate newer Miranda model, which I presume was the one that ended up on the Magazine. I can't remember the timeline of the calendar at that time, but it may have been the one used for it.
Mark
Posted by Topher (Member # 71) on :
IIRC Fabio Passaro made the Reliant CGI that was on the cover of the mag.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Ahhhhhhh I finally tracked down a copy of the Calendar in Brisbane last night - on the otherside of town. They had like 10 copies, but at the calendar place on my side - they had none... so It's on order. Looks like they're not getting a sale on my side of town. PLUS all the calendars at this place were on sale that night or something so instead of 24.95 - I got it for 17.80!
VERY VERY NICE. So Mojo. I don't get. How much of this work here is yours?
What I'm not fussed on (It's easier to rememeber): The escape-pods and 'naked' Miranda. just don't like it.
That's it - everything else is GREAT!
I notice there is only really one DS9 'era' photo. I know DS9 can't really do an atmosphere thing. There was that ion storm in season 2.
I LOVE the Defiant model - it KICKs ASS!
The KBOP - looked great
I REALLY LOVED the "Tomorrow Is Yesterday" Scene - THANKYOU!
Shir-Khar city! GREAT IDEA!! - there's just a little something about the 'grounds' in the shots with... the GROUND in them. The Vulcan one - the ground looks metallic or molten metal or something? And all the hills look similar. And the Miranda/escape pod pic - this hills look straight out of Bryce!
The Voyager-over-LA Is SWEET. Awesome even.
P'JEM is nice. Does anyone think the Building is a little Hildebrant to anyone?
Oh - I think my fave (too) is the NX-E in orbit. That is one SWEET picture. Showed mum, who isn't a "Trek Fan" - but knows who Picard and Quark and Janeway are liked that shot.
The 'screen grabs' from Gen and FC - nice but... 'meh'.
I would have liked to have seen the TOS shuttle over one of those 'classic' TOS mattes like Starbase 12 (you know with the tall building and the purple sky) That Admiral Chief of Security was there in "The Die Is Cast" wasn't he? Or Eminar or what-ever??
Mojo, an idea for some more 'atmosphere' shots - Bajoran fighters (the little ones seen in The Circle) fighting Cardassians (an atmospheric ship or even a little shuttle) during the occupation over Bajor or Jeraddo etc.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Oh and the borg cubes gave me a shiver. Although I didn't like the 'tactical' cube being used on the left one (or both for all we know). Something a little more traditional would have been better - with out all that plating.
A cube and a sphere would have been interesting!
Posted by Proteus (Member # 212) on :
Mojo hosted a small sneak preview of the calander and some images from his canceled book at a scifi convention in MN a few months back, and all I can say is this calander is so worth it.
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
I'm definitely getting this calendar, but I'm not likely to see it until Christmas -- my family usually gives each other calendars at Christmas (among other things, of course!). I've made it clear which one I'd most like. No surprise, but it's still nice.
Overall, I must say that this calendar series has been a great success. Though I haven't been too fond of a few of the pictures, the artwork has always been excellent and perfectly conveys the sense of awe and grandeur that "Star Trek" as a whole is supposed to evoke.
And I've even liked some of the "non-traditional" shots -- the Work Bees weren't my favorite, but it was a cool idea to see them. The August 2002 picture of the Romulan Bird-of-Prey was neat, but there was too much blur applied to make it really good.
Still, you guys can count on getting my money for this offering! And I'm still hoping to get the chance to see "The Unseen Frontier" sometime soon...
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
I have like one comic of TOS from a while back - where Scotty had a moustache and was working for some sort of Starfleet ops. He and a group of ops members had to infultrate a Romulan base and steal back a Starship (well it's engineering section). There was a shot there with about 4 war birds circling above the base (which was on/in an asteroid) And scotty said "look at those birds circling" or something... That would be a pretty cool shot. I.e. not the same situation - but something like a modern version with a Romulan base with some Traffic... Shuttles/Romabouts and Science Vessels and Scout Ships coming and going from an Asteroid Base! Just a little thought.
Andrew
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
Idea of the day: Something involving JUST the Battle section of a Galaxy-class starship - or if Mojo feels daring, of a Sovvie. We barely get to see stuff like that as it is, and it wouldn't require a ground-up mesh.
Mark
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Ohhhhhhh! YES!! Something I wish we saw during the Dominion war.
Wonder what other ships might have a battle section?
The Ambassador class?
I've always wanted to see a battle between two ships over a large Volume of space - cause phasers and photons act over thousands of kilometers!! Although, I don't think this idea lends itself well to be seen in a 2D format.
Andrew
P.S. Can I ask something about the Calendar... ShirKahr city... was that seen in that TAS episode? How does the calendar match up to the - if any - views of it in the episode? There are hills around - which Sarek mentioned in "Sarek" or "Unification" and supposedly the TAS episode?
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
This is Shikahr/ShirKahr as it appeared in "Yesteryear" (TAS). Here's a nighttime view, which surprisingly includes a large "moon." (So TMP wasn't the first to make that mistake... ) Here's a view of the surrounding landscape. Presumably, that mountain range is Vulcan's Forge, mentioned in the episode and again in "Change of Heart" (DS9), where Dax and Worf consider going backpacking on their honeymoon. And, finally, one more view.
Pics from Kail Tescar's TAS site.
-MMoM Posted by The Mike from C.A.P.T.A.I.N. (Member # 709) on :
why doesnt the dude post here anymore? id love to bs more ideas with him, in case he ever had a chance to make our ideas published semi-canon again.
Posted by Dax (Member # 191) on :
If ya mean Mojo, Mike, he did post earlier in this thread.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Hey Monkey!! They were cool links! THANKYOU! WOW! Looks like Mojo/whoever did that pic - referenced TAS! YAY!!
I don't reckon that is a moon - it seems to be there day and night - in the same position - actually is rising slowly!?!
Can two planets exist so close together like that?
I wonder if Mount Selaya is part of Vulcan's Forge?
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
Well, the common fan explanation (backed by Mandel's Star Charts) is that the "moon" is actually a VERY closeby planet called T'Khut.
-MMoM
P.S.
I'd loove to see some scans from the calendar, particularly one of the Shikahr/ShirKahr pic. Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
[Double post]
Posted by Dr. Phlox (Member # 878) on :
(P.S. Anyone else having trouble with the preview post button?)
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
[rant]
Buy the calendars, ya mooks! The calendars work different than novels in sales figures. Every sold one DOES count, and is a step closer to Mojo being asked back to do the next one if Pocket still wants it! And why would Pocket still want it? BECAUSE THEY SOLD TONS OF THE LAST ONE!
[/rant]
Mark
Posted by Dr. Phlox (Member # 878) on :
I'm buying mine as soon as I can get to the shop that sells them. Posted by The359 (Member # 37) on :
My girlfreind is buying mine, so I'm sorta helping.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Someone oughta talk to Pocket Books Australia (or who ever handles that here - Simon Schuster... MOJO... Last year all the trek calendars were to be found everywhere (at all the little calendar stands) This year NOT A ONE. Asking about it the person at the counter says "I don't know why we don't have them this year". So I ordered Ships of the Line... but the otherday being across the otherside of town found a few copies - but only in one place - and none in Book stores. So something is 'fucked up' there. With distribution.
Andrew
Posted by SoundEffect (Member # 926) on :
quote:Originally posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim: This is Shikahr/ShirKahr as it appeared in "Yesteryear" (TAS). Here's a nighttime view, which surprisingly includes a large "moon." (So TMP wasn't the first to make that mistake...
I didn't think it was a mistake in TMP... Vulcan is in orbit with another planet in the system. They revolve around one another and it's this other planet that has the moon. So Vulcan has no moon, it's just co-orbiting with another nearby planet with one. The Star Charts book includes that depiction on page 58.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
So where is this twin planet when we see Vulcan in ST:IV? In the shot where the Bounty is on approach, the planet is clearly a lone body with no moons or nearby planets.
Posted by The Mike from C.A.P.T.A.I.N. (Member # 709) on :
By that logic, Earth doesnt have a moon, since many of the images of Earth I see lack any orbiting bodies.
You have to be fairly far away from a planet in order to get its satellite in the same frame. The Bounty was on a close approach to Vulcan..
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
I'd gladly buy the calendar myself... I simply haven't seen it yet. I should probably get out more...
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Didn't we get a 'distant' view of Vulcan in "Gambit Part II"? and Unification Part I?
Why didn't we see more 'traffic' and 'stations' in orbit. I would assume it'd have to be like Earth.
Posted by Starship Millennium (Member # 822) on :
I thought that was a little weird too, but when you think about it, most of the time the Enterprise-D returned to Earth it was alone in orbit as well. It's really too bad TNG didn't have the cash to spend or the means to do stuff like orbital facilities...
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
Compared to a starship, even Earth orbital space is frickin' HUGE. So unless the Enterprise or whoever was purposefully rendevousing with something else in orbit, it makes perfect sense that they'd appear alone in orbit. Even when relatively close to each other, in practical sense there'd be little viewing any other craft unless they were REALLY CLOSE, or were actaully being looked AT by someone (like the audience).
Case in point - today, I was watching NASA TV as the space shuttle rendevoused and docked with the ISS. Now granted, both spacecraft were way smaller than most starships, but even at eight miles away and at maximum magnification on the station's cameras, the shuttle was a very small white dot, only really visible during an OMS burn. Barely anything on the shuttle could be made out until it got within a mile or two!
In other words, for all intents and purposes practically every advanced planet Trek has run into could be swarming with ships and satellites... They're just never close enough to see.
Mark
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
And on the issue of seeing or not seeing the Vulcan moon/T'Khut, it could be that this second body is orbiting neither Vulcan nor its sun. There are plenty of other geometries for this fancy four-body problem to follow.
One of the fancier orbital geometries was on the local science pages last weekend: a tiny rock that corkscrews around Earth's orbit around the Sun. Every 95 years, the corkscrew brings the rock from a position just "ahead" of Earth to a position just "behind" it, via the long route. And then back. And every 1200 years or so, the thing jumps the end bumpers of its track and gets stuck orbiting Earth on a polar orbit, as a moon of our planet. And then it breaks loose again, and starts seesawing between the "leading" and "trailing" positions again. Look for Earth gaining another moon again in 2600 AD or so.
T'Khut (and its smaller companion from ST:TMP:CE) might visit Vulcan every X years, and ST4 and "Unification" didn't quite mark the time of nearest approach.
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by Toadkiller (Member # 425) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mark Nguyen: Compared to a starship, even Earth orbital space is frickin' HUGE. So unless the Enterprise or whoever was purposefully rendevousing with something else in orbit, it makes perfect sense that they'd appear alone in orbit.....They're just never close enough to see.
Mark
Agreed.
In addition one might imagine "military space" or Fleet-only orbits where only Star Fleet ships/craft are allowed to be.
Wouldn't do to have some tourist run their rental runabout into the UFP's shiny new flagship.
Posted by SoundEffect (Member # 926) on :
Another case in point, altered for your viewing pleasure, are asteroid belt sequences: if our asteroid belt is typical, the rocks are so far from each other you could be standing on one and not know you're 'in the belt' because you couldn't see another asteroid. It's dramatic license that has asteroids so close together (like in Empire Strikes Back) that ships need to weave in and out to avoid collisions. Interplanetary space is big! If the asteroids were as close as ESB depicts, we wouldn't have an asteroid belt beacuse the rocks would've pulverized one another eons ago.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
2600 AD, huh? I wonder if I can set my camera's timer that far ahead....
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
So how long does that mini-moon orbit the earth - like only once (in it's close pass)? Is this Cruinthe? So in 1400 it was orbiting earth? For how long?
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Heh, it'd be interesting if they went to Vulcan and saw that 'moon' and Trip says "I thought Vulcan had no moon" and T'Pol says "We don't like to talk about it". a la Worf in Trials and Tribble-ations.
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
The moonlet is just a tiny rock about a hundred meters across - one wouldn't even see it when it's playing "moon" with Earth. Supposedly, it would spend about fifty years pretending to orbit Earth, then jump off again. This based purely on modeling of its trajectory in the past few years - I don't really know how they can be sure the system isn't chaotic.
Well, perhaps if something this weird is witnessed once, then one can assume there must be unknown factors that make it likely to happen another time - otherwise, even the first time would have been an incredible fluke. I'll dig up the article when I have the time and the inspiration...
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by Mojo (Member # 536) on :
Hey gang
To respond to a few questions:
- As I'm sure you've all discovered, the Vulcan shot WAS based on TAS. Daren Dochterman (of ST:TMP DE DVD fame) was responsible for that. I'm sure he'll be pleased to know it's appreciated.
- People seem to be underwhelmed by the shots from First Contact and Generations. I wonder if this feeling is limited to the hardcore fans, who are aware of the behind-the-scenes production of the calendar. Since you guys know that many of these images are being made from scratch, perhaps it disappoints you to see images that aren't totally new. Hopefully, the 'average' fan will pick it up and just be happy to see a dozen ship shots! Also, come on guys, be fair - for decades the calendars have been nothing but recycled cast shots ad infenitum - we can live with TWO in the SOTL calendar, can't we? At least I had to go and GET hi-res files of these images, which have never been seen in print before!
- As far as what my role was exactly, here's how it all worked: First, I asked Pocket Books to choose between two themes - space battles or atmospherics. They chose the latter. Then, I spent a few weeks developing concepts for all the images, for which I created low-res, rough drafts of all the shots to simply get the idea across visually. After they were approved by Paramount, work begun on the final, hi-res shots.
A lot of my pals were keen to work on the calendar, so a few scenes were handed out to them for final rendering. All the rest (and the cover) were finalized by me.
So, despite the lack of a "Mojo" credit within it's pages, rest assured it is a product of yours truly. In several of the images (like the BOP and Voyager) credit was given to the photographer who provided the background image.
As far as next year's calendar goes, I have yet to be commissioned by Pocket Books to proceed. There's lots of time until 2004, however...
Have a happy Thanksgiving everyone! In the states, anyway :-0
Mojo
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
That is true about having nice high-res shots from the movies. It did reinforce one of my opinions - that the Hull of the E-D is some much more beautiful than that of the E-E. What is with those little try-hard 'divots'/'sunken panels' on the E-E hull. I really hate those - it makes the ship really fake. Why couldn't it have the beautiful and distinct panelling of the TMP E(R) and the Generations E-D!?! Even Voyager has a better surface.
Posted by SoundEffect (Member # 926) on :
I liked all of the photos in this calendar. I've seen the others, but this is the only one that's made it to store shelves out here in Eastern Canada.
I was impressed with the crashed saucer pic: I didn't realize before the shuttles had the Farragut number on them, I didn't know a lot of the red striping wasn't applied to the 12' saucer model, like around the phasers, etc.
I did see last years calendar from a friend though. One thing that popped out at me immediately was the Galaxy Class labelled USS Challenger on the saucer but Enterprise on the stardrive.
Posted by Dat (Member # 302) on :
quote:I did see last years calendar from a friend though. One thing that popped out at me immediately was the Galaxy Class labelled USS Challenger on the saucer but Enterprise on the stardrive.
That was going back two years ago from the cover of the first calendar. I made mention to that as soon as the first one came out. I was one of the very first to get a copy back in July of 2000. I bet it probably goes back all the way to the Voyager episode which had the Challenger.
I had also mede mention of the Nebula class captioned as Farragut, saucer labeled as Honshu, and weapons pod and pylons labeled as Bonchune.
And we already knew the executive shuttles had the Farragut's number on them.
Posted by Peregrinus (Member # 504) on :
Mojo, I love what you're doing with the calendar(s). I think what people are griping about is something you're actively working on, and what UF was/is all about. We love seeing the familiar from a new point of view. And using existing frames provided nothing we hadn't seen before. F'r instance, the E-D crash site? I think we'd love to see a shot from just outside the main shuttlebay (or just under its overhang) looking back up the slideout trench, with all the shuttles and people and general evac procedures going on all around.
I admit that's way into UF territory, but there's not really much we can get from the crash site shot that we can manipulate, as it was a model shot and not CGI. We can't even rotate it to get a different angle.
And sometimes a different angle is all it takes. I love the U.S.S. Akira card for Decipher's 2nd Ed. Star Trek CCG. Is it okay to post a link?
And don't worry about a little grumbling, Mojo. One can't hit a home run every time. It's part of being human. But you succeed brilliantly far more than you miss, which is impressive and (in my distinctly unhumble opinion) far too much of a rarity in Trek these days...
--Jonah
Posted by SoundEffect (Member # 926) on :
Not two years...not the Galaxy Class in the drydock...unless it happened to that one too. I meant a nearly top view, with some other starship in the frame as well. 'Challenger' was on the top of the saucer and 'Enterprise' was on the upper pylon area.
I did catch the Bonchune podded Honshu!
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
If you mean the centrefold from last year's calendar, it had Challenger ont he front, and Enterprise on the aft dorsal of the saucer.
Mark
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
I'd LOVE to see something of the Main Shuttle-bay!! Good idea... and 'member when Mojo was mentioning about having fans in some shots? Well I was a bit scared at that idea after some Fans I've seen at conventions But - then I was thinking - it'd work with shots where you can't really tell who the people are - and that is like the VFX crew being used for the people on top of the saucer in that pic! Or those Matt-shots from things like SF command in ST:IV or Homefront/Paradise lost - academy shots or even some of the space dock window scene in ST:III. Even closer (than the Veridian shot) would work for something like the Main Shuttlebay pic... you could be right deep in the shuttlebay looking out at the bright ligt of Veridian's Sun (or would that be Veridian itself?) streaming through the open shuttlebay door - like looking outside - from a darkened inside on a bright day. There would probably be a lot of dust in the air creating light-streams... And people could be standing looking out but standing all over the launch bay - so you'd most probably see sillouettes. Shuttles could be all around - and work bees - some leaving, a few crashed, a few coming up the platforms from below. The doors to the rest of the ship open... triage teams... it'd be cool! The camera is like, in the back corner.
Posted by Masao (Member # 232) on :
Mojo: If you don't want to answer, I understand, but could you tell us the reason we won't be seeing your eagerly awaited Hidden Frontier book? Does it have anything to do with how well or poorly Starship Spotter (or other books) sold? Was it seen as being too expensive with no enough of a market? What was the actual format of the book supposed to be (ie, hardcover, dimensions, pages, etc.) Are there any plans to revive the project (or already completed images) in another form?
Thanks in advance
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
How well did the Art of Star Trek sell? I want something like that for UF.
Posted by Peregrinus (Member # 504) on :
Here's the link to the Akira shot I mentioned. Love the angle...
--Jonah
Posted by Fleet-Admiral Michael T. Colorge (Member # 144) on :
Darn, I'm still waiting for the USS Prometheus to show up in a calendar so I can get a new Prometheus desktop. Oh well, there's always the Rhrode Island...
Posted by Dr. Phlox (Member # 878) on :
Wasn't the Prometheus in the first SotL calendar? Granted it was that picture of the front of the saucer, but it was quite big if I'm not mistaken.
Posted by Dat (Member # 302) on :
Yeah, the Prommie was in the first one with the 5xxxx number on the hull.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Hmmm CCG - 2nd edition!?! What about those people with the first edition?? Not that I play it - no one ever to play it with. I have a sizable black-boarder and white-boarder collection of the very first release - but then I stopped collecting them.
Andrew
Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :
About half of Second-edition will be backwards-compatible.
I = geek.
Posted by Mojo (Member # 536) on :
Pocket Books has sited pricing as the official reason for cancelling "Unseen Frontier."
As a large, coffee table book, it would have carried a price tag approaching $50. During production, their sales staff found it to be a very tough sell to the various book chains' buyers. Invariably, they elected to hault the book rather than risk spending a lot of money they weren't sure they'd recoup.
Pure economics.
As far as future projects with Simon & Schuster, at the moment I am not contracted for anything. Only time will tell...
Mojo
Posted by Masao (Member # 232) on :
Fifty bucks is pretty expensive, but I woul've bought one. However, the hardback encylopedia lists for $42 and the Star Trek Action hardback was $40 (who bought that?). They had that coffee table book about Trek geography, for God's sake ($35). They thought that would be popular? More popular than a book about starships?
What percentage of the images had been completed when they pulled the plug? (Any chance you could post them here?)
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
With fifty dollars I could eat for weeks.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Eeesh... what are you eating?
Posted by Dat (Member # 302) on :
Mojo, perhaps if they are unrelenting, you can compromise with them. You can offer to have the book be a smaller one (in terms of book dimensions, not the number of pages). You can also offer to have it paperback instead. I think the fans want this published enough that these are possible compromises that you, the fans, the Pocket books would be comfortable with. They may be satisfied that they can sell at a lower price and not worry over substantial losses if it doesn't sell well. You can finish your work and have it published finally. The fans can see this work and not have to pay a bigger price for it.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
I'm pretty sure that the size and format of the book are up to the publisher... not the artist. Correct me if I'm wrong, Mojo.
Posted by Wraith (Member # 779) on :
Well, I guess it wouldn't hurt to throw the idea at them. Preferably wrapped around a brick with 'We want Unseen Frontier' written on it...
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Cafeteria food. And not much of it.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Surely they'd want to have a new product... why would they just slot it into the $50 mark!?! How much was Art of Star Trek - I still bought that - and now at least two hard-covered Encyclopaedias.
How many people buy all 4 or 5 calendars each year!?!?!?! That would easily equal the price of Unseen Frontier.
Posted by TheF0rce (Member # 533) on :
Perhaps splitting the content of the book into two books and selling one of them first for $25 to test the waters?
Too stupid of an idea? I don't know, I'm just throwing them out without any professional understanding of the printing market. Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
I thought of that too Force.
And can I just say - I saw the Star Trek Cartography/Map book today. I don't think I'm buying this - I would by 2 more copies of the Calendar before buying this book.
Its funny how Christian Ruhl was mentioned - I remember doing a whole lot of my 'maps' on here and he was just starting his web page up at the same time. I believe I gave the Gorn - it's "Hegemony" name! LOL! And is that the fair-dinkum Breen symbol in there - the one we see on DS9?
I wouldn't have made Klingon space so bloody big. And The Federation is too skinny... and that's the whole problem which made me abandon any more map making a long time ago. We know too little of any stars. It's VERY hard to do the whole 3d galaxy on a 2d page... the Federation should really look like a smallish ball with lots of tendrils coming out of it on all sides. Wrapped in amongst these tendrils passing on either side and above and below would be the Klingons, Cardassians and Romulans. All Four powers have some sort of connection with each other - and this is very hard to achieve by having them separated on the one plane by the Federation.
Also the Tholians are way out in whoop whoop. They need to be right near the Klingons and the Romulans as several key events between the Federation and these two powers also involved or nearly involved the Tholians. Why would they care if they are further away from Earth than DS9!?!
Oh and it says that first contact with the Tholians was made (by the time) during "The Tholian Web" - Spock etc. had already prior knowledge of the race and their habits.
Oh and the book looks too busy - and confusing.
GIVE US UNSEEN FRONTIER!!
Andrew
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
quote:Originally posted by AndrewR: Oh and it says that first contact with the Tholians was made (by the time) during "The Tholian Web" - Spock etc. had already prior knowledge of the race and their habits.
Well, that's not a new snafu. Pretty much anything that's ever been written about the Tholians (both canon and non-canon, and including IIRC the Encyclopedia and official website) has made the same claim. But you're right about it being heavily implied in the episode that there was prior contact.
Or, perhaps, it was just the Vulcans that had had contact with them?
-MMoM Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
...Or their reputation preceded them? Like the Ferengi.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
That reputation caused by the REAL first contact by Archer. GAH! And then there is the REAL first contact with the Borg by The Hansens. Maybe it was the group Hason!?!
"Resistance is Futile" "Your technology and culture will service us"
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) Here's a view of the surrounding landscape. Presumably, that mountain range is Vulcan's Forge, mentioned in the episode and again in "Change of Heart" (DS9), where Dax and Worf consider going backpacking on their honeymoon. And, finally, one more view.