I just got back from the 4:10 showing of Nemesis, the earliest showing in the area, and first off, great film.
But anyway, I figured I should tell everyone about the new tech seen in the film, just like we do for every new episode of Enterprise, so here goes:
- New Tricorders. They basically look like overglorified PDAs. They no longer fold up like the previous ones, instead they are just one big flat screen with all the necessary buttons either on the screen, or on top in a little fold out sensor doohicky at the top. Some of the classic buttons from the old tricorders can be seen on this little piece, but the rest is fancy LCARS graphics.
- New Sickbay. Dumping the old Voyager set, this new very white set is circular, like the old one, with beds on the outside and the main surgical bed at the center. The old displays that used to sit above the bed are still there, but there are now cabinets next to each bed, I assume to hold supplies.
- The Argo. The vehicle, when driving, has a unique sound to it, especially when its shut off. Sounds like a reactor instead of a gasoline engine. The shuttlecraft is apparently damaged when Picard launches into it, but there are locking mechanisms that latch onto the wheels to help keep the vehicle in place during flight. We never see the cockpit.
- The Scimitar. One big bad mutha fugga. I can't remember the exact weaponry, but I at least remember hearing 27 torpedo launchers. And believe me, they are all used. The main weapon, however, uses Thadion (sp???) radiation that is fired from the Scimitar's wings, which actually split up into 5 seperate wings. The Thadion radiation literally turns people to stone. It is used in Shinzon's takeover of the Romulan Senate at the beginning of the movie. The Scimitar also has foldout reverse engines, which look a lot like a rocket engine. I'm guessing they're actually something akin to boosters to help the impulse engines reverse.
- Microtransporter. This must be something gained from the Dominion (most likely that Bug Sisko used). It's simply a small circular device with two shutters that expose a little red LED, and voila! You can transport the person its attached to. However, I don't know how exactly you can dictate WHERE you are transporting to (although the plot device seems to be in great control of it). LaForge has made it so Data can carry one in his arm.
- The Enterprise. As part of preparation for battle, we get to see the Enterprises weapon lockers, which are merely parts of the corridor wall which swing around and reveal two phaser rifles per wall section. Also, LaForge tests out force fields that envelope the warp core. Of course, they immediatly fail after the ship is attacked, so lot of good they were. The Enterprise also gets a new "warp jump" CGI, with the stretching of the ship being replaced by slight smokey contrails from the nacelles and then the usual starburst at the end. The Enterprise also happens to depleat her supply of photon torpedoes during the battle with the Scimitar (which is what leads Picard to ram the Scimitar). Unfortunatly, after ramming the Scimitiar and asking for the auto destruct sequence, the computer chimes in with "Auto destruct sequence is offline". Wonderful. Picard is also able to send text messages from the arm of his chair to the helm console, where he tells Troi to ram the Scimitar without having to say it. After Enterprise returns to Earth for repair, we get to see her with open paneling all over the place, which gives us a beautiful view of the warp field coils on one nacelle. Picard also makes a brief mention of the ship's Gym.
- The Voldare. Two Warbirds show up, one being the Voldare. Nothing really unique about them, we see them both attach the Scimitar in conjunction with the Enterprise. One is destroyed when the Scimitar cuts off its wing (which collides with the Enterprise), and the other (Voldare itself) is disabled and set adrift. The Voldare later sends shuttles to assist Picard after the Scimitar is destroyed. I should point out it appears the Scimitar set is the Voyager bridge, or at least the rear of it (where the Master Situation Display was).
- Other Stuff. Picard orders a defensive pattern Kirk-6 or something of that kind. New Work Bees are seen in drydock during the repair of Enterprise, they have the beds in the back similar to the Sphinx work pods seen in the TNG:TM. The Titan is not seen, neither are any ships in the fleet seen in Stellar Cartography (it indeed is USS Archer). Picard's laptop now slides vertically out of his desk, istead of the old one from FC that folded upward.
This is all I can remember at the moment, if someone else has seen it and wishes to point out what I missed, go right ahead.
Posted by Spike (Member # 322) on :
And was that other ship in the list really the Nova or another ship?
Posted by The359 (Member # 37) on :
As far as I could tell, it was definately Nova. They really flash past the names rather quickly.
Posted by Dat (Member # 302) on :
Riker orders Kirk-6 maneuver. The Valdore bridge was just the redress of the E-E bridge... or rather just the aft walls. No other Starfleet ships are seen. That means, no ships from the fleet, no Titan, no Hemingway (the ship that supposedly towed the E-E back home). CDR Madden is not seen. Neither is his former ship, the Talos. Wesley is seen, has no lines. Guinan is seen, has one ot two lines. No explanation of why Worf is back in uniform or anything about Wesley's appearance in the movie or in a uniform (he did look to be wearing just one pip). Janeway does indeed look to be wearing the three pip admiral pins. Why is it that only the helmsman was the only person to be blown out from the bridge? When the Scimitar pulls back from after being rammed by the E-E, we see the E-E her self had also been cut up by the ramming and that she's now missing some 5% of the front of the saucer. We see the torpedo launchers under the main deflector being used (don't recall them using the aft launchers under the fantail). The main shuttlebay door slides down to open. It does seem that aft torpedos are being fired from around the main shuttlebay area. Why didn't Picard call over to the fleet and ask for assistance during the battle? And seeing that Picard could have called over to them, why would it be the Hemingway that tows them back and not one of the ships from the fleet? And that's all that I recall for now.
Posted by Charles Capps (Member # 9) on :
quote:Why didn't Picard call over to the fleet and ask for assistance during the battle?
Plot device - the rift they are in blocks long range transmissions. Stellar Cartography went offline, Data explained, Picard bugged out, but just a bit too late.
Beyond the whole deck 29 thing, I didn't spot much in the realm of bloopers.
I wish I had focused more on that ship name list, however... all I caught was the Archer. It's shown twice, very briefly... if anyone sees it again, PAY ATTENTION. I recall both the Galaxy and Valiant, but I think we knew about them already.
Mad props to whoever made the call to make video transmissions actually *LOOK* like video transmissions - Janeway's in particular. Slightly grainy, lighting a bit too much... Very convincing.
Posted by The Vorlon (Member # 52) on :
They were 40mins out from the Fleet when the Scimitar knocked the E-E out of warp. The battle took a LONG time, you'd think that the Fleet would have wondered why the E-E wasn't on time OR on their sensors and would have come looking for her. It would have been preferable for the Fleet to show up just before the Scimitar fires and beam Picard off before proceeding to blow it to hell. Would have had the nice side-effect of not having Data die AND we would have gotten to see more Starfleet ships...
You know what I realized watching this movie? I MISS the 24th century. The 22nd century SUCKS. It's all "Oooh, strange one-off aliens we've never meet and never will again" and "Don't let your dog pee on the alien-of-the-week's trees"...
Posted by SoundEffect (Member # 926) on :
The Deck 29 thing really floored me! They guffed on it in FC and I can't believe they made the mistake again with an even higher number! AAGGHGHHHHHHH! There.
The other thing that really bugged me was Picard snapping a (probably) duranium-casing phaser rifle against a Reman's head. That thing should NOT have broken. They were hoping for a quick unthinking chuckle from the audience.
There were enough minor errors to keep me from jumping for joy when this was over. I enjoyed it, it was agood movie, but for a viewer like me, you have to also get the little things right too...like the Scimitar backing away and pulling herself free from the Enterprise...sorry, no friction or gravity is keeping Enterprise in place.
I also didn't like the Windows-based beveled buttons on the LCARS interfaces.
Posted by Topher (Member # 71) on :
Notice how most of the desktop monitors were exactly that - computer monitors? Mind you chrome-plated flatscreens, but nonetheless... Probably borrowed from the ENT sets.
Posted by The359 (Member # 37) on :
Yes, the buttons thing I did think was weird. The new weapons lockers were cool though.
Posted by SoundEffect (Member # 926) on :
Yes, I saw USS Nova. I'm sure we covered all of the correct names. It will be the NCCs to get this time. They're in the background for a while, though blurred, but it's the first quick frame that show them in focus.
Next time I see the film, I'm lookin' for NCCs!
Posted by Fleet-Admiral Michael T. Colorge (Member # 144) on :
When I watched the movie, I clearly saw USS Galaxy and the registry number. But I wasn't sure if I also saw USS Voyager and USS Titan. Oh well, we can find out later if I was dreaming them up. USS Valiant? It better not have the NCC-74215 registry next to the name.
Anyway, where did the quantum torpedoes go? And I thought that it was strange that the aft torps were launched from Main Shuttlebay's location. And why didn't Picard order the evacuation of the foward saucer areas before ramming the ship? And since when do 24th Century vehicles have wheels? Is Picard going retro like Tom Paris? Speaking of shuttles, why does the Argo have wings? It's like looking at a 24th Century version of the shuttles from Enterprise. What happened to the the other shuttles?
The new workbees look kewl though but not the PDA tricorders and phasers. If they needed to use a PDA tricorder, why not use the Sony Clie NX-V70? It's a clamshell like the FC tricorders but better looking than the ones used in this movie. Is it me or is it that the phasers, that also were shown in Voyager's episode Endgame, look like they had foil on the tip? What is up with that? Oh, and Deck 29... shouldn't where the Remans beamed onboard more like Deck 15? That Reman viceroy dropped a long way down from that deck. I doubt that the Sovereign Class has nearly 42 Decks like the Galaxy Class.
I shouldn't have drank that damn caramel machiatto before I saw the move again tonight. The movie was good and I still miss the 24th Century.
Posted by Proteus (Member # 212) on :
The new LCARS and Shield displays rocked my world.
Oh, and the rest of the movie was FUCKING AWESOME. It roxored my boxors, etc.
God damn!!!
Posted by Shipbuilder (Member # 69) on :
A volley of quantums did fire from the saucer ventral launcher....all that was missing was an addition to the statement that they had no more photon torps available, should've been photons and quantums are empty....oh well, great movie minus the deck 29 thing.
Posted by The359 (Member # 37) on :
Regarding the Deck 29, and how the Viceroy could fall down a turbolift shaft if he was on the bottom deck, maybe the boarding party had gone up a few decks prior to being engaged by Riker, Worf, and Co.?
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
It wasn't a turbolift shaft, it was a conveniently placed Death Star brand bottomless pit.
Posted by Spike (Member # 322) on :
Was the Hemingway at least mentioned? Was any stardate mentioned?
Edit: Does anyone know if the DVD will have all the cut scenes?
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
No. Yes. Uh, 56ish?
Posted by Fleet-Admiral Michael T. Colorge (Member # 144) on :
I guess the new thing in Federation shielding would be Spandex size. No more bubble shields like on USS Voyager. It's now DS9 shielding.
It's funny that the more I think about the movie, the more I feel like finding a new hobby to replace Star Trek. Something didn't feel right when I saw it again, like Star Trek was missing its soul. I think the entire time I saw it again, I was mostly uncomfortable. Seeing it again for the second time made it seem flat, like the characters lost something.
I think it must have been the coffee.
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
I pout for my thread lockdown.
Anyway, someone here once mentioned that there could easily be several different shield systems used depending on what kind of combat undertaken, or environment they're in. I forgot what logic was used, but since we've seen ships use more than one shield type and often revert BACK to the previous one, there could be an explanation in that.
Mark
Posted by Dat (Member # 302) on :
Looking over the movie's rough draft script, I noticed a few things. 1. Deck 29 was even in the rough draft, so Logan didn't do enough reference checking. 2. Given that Picard's conversation with B-4 at the end of the movie is when the E-E's already in dock, the whole Hemingway reference was probably never filmed. The script had the reference of the Hemingway arriving to tow the E-E home just as the conversation ends. 3. This is most likely assumed by everyone who has read the early script. Not much was changed from the released rough and final scripts. 4. If Susan Gibney was indeed part of the cast, then she probably had one scene taken away from her and given to Whoopi Goldberg. (The conversation Geordi had with Leah just prior to Worf's Irving Berlin comment, he now has with Guinan.) 5. And I would not be surprised if Paramount releases a bare-bones dvd first as it seems likely a dvd release would be before even ST6 gets a director's/special edition release. And most likely, the Nemesis special edition dvd is going to be a director's edition/cut release with all the edited/deleted stuff put back in the movie itself and not a separate bonus feature on the second disc.
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
Okay, some of my notes:
-Reman fun: Used as ground troops during the Dominion War! Cannon fodder. One wonders on what planets they were used... Probably only on planets that the Romulans had sole operational authority, so no one would notice where they were from. It certainly seems that the Romulans used them as a slave race, and they were not some Vulcan offshoot.
-Hey, first time anyone has used the term "Dominion War"!
-Shinzon rose to prominence during the Dominion War, winning a dozen engagements. I'm guessing that somewhere during this time he started bulding the Scimitar. Given the superficial resemblence to a Dominion battlecruiser (probably unintentional on the production side, but certainly there), I'm guessing that the War gave him more than just prominence in the Romulan ranks. Perhaps the Scimitar was a Dominion design captured by the Remans, and then completed in secret? Also, the dustifying weapon they have is in line with something the Dominion would think up...
-For those wondering about the English language use of Scimitar and Scorpion for the Reman ships, well, with the Picard-deifying Shinzon in charge...
-This is the most enjoyable Trek battle I've seen since "Balance of Terror". It's an obvious take on that theme, with the E-E making FULL advantage of her arsenal. We see torpedoes flying from EVERY designed launcher, plus one from the main shuttlebay area. Would it be a popup, or could someone have opened the bay and launched somethign from there? The DVD would probably be needed to solve that question once and for all. And only the forward underslung launcher was used for Quantums. Neat!
-The shuttlebay itelf seems to have changed. In FC, it was designed that the whole door was identical, implying that the whole thing would retract when launching craft. In Insurrection, this changed somewhat, with only the centre sections opening up to launch Picard's shuttle. This time, we see that these centre sections are different in design than the ones surrounding it. They are clearly seen to be different as the Argo launches, and within the shuttlebay you can see there are walls, making the centre section an independent construct from whatever is surrounding it. Perhaps it's a dedicated launch bay for the Argo, with the surrounding sections still capable of opening to launch standard craft?
-I did not see the NX-01 in the briefing room. All I thought I saw was two sets of six starships, what seemed to be mirrored series of the six Enterprises...
-Janeway IS a three-pip Vice Admiral. From the fouth row, this was abundantly clear. Eww.
-The phaser rifles have always been known as semi-automatic weapons, but this time they were very rapid-fire. While I'm sure Worf could work that trigger really fast, I'm sure there's a full-auto at work here.
Mark
Posted by Spike (Member # 322) on :
quote:Janeway IS a three-pip Vice Admiral. From the fouth row, this was abundantly clear.
So, she got promoted 3 times within 1,5 years. I love that movie. It's so believable. Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :
Twice.
Posted by Spike (Member # 322) on :
1.) Captain to 1 Pip Admiral 2.) 1 Pip Admiral to 2 Pip Admiral 3.) 2 Pip Admiral to 3 Pip Admiral
Posted by Proteus (Member # 212) on :
i'll eventually get the MSD use in Nemesis (there was a very clear shot of it) to see if there were indeed 29 decks.
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
And I bet you 300 quatloos that it's the same basic one that we've seen since 1996, with a couple snazzy display graphics thrown in.
Mark
Posted by Akira (Member # 850) on :
The Nova was NCC-73515
Posted by Akira (Member # 850) on :
BTW Did anyone else think this was like TWOK.
Good verus evil The ending of them trying to stop an weapon (well you know what i mean) Someone giving their life to stop their friends from dying. big battle scene
Now if the next one is called Star Trek 10 the search for Data ill stop watching trek forever
Posted by The359 (Member # 37) on :
You mean Star Trek 11.
And if the Nova is NCC-73515, then I say we pull the Yeager situation again: Say the Nova class Nova was destroyed, and the Nova 73515 is a new ship.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
The director has made it quite clear that he has no interest in doing a director's cut, though I'm sure an otherwise bonusified special edition will be out someday. I'm not at all sure there will be two versions, though.
Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :
quote:Originally posted by Spike: 1.) Captain to 1 Pip Admiral 2.) 1 Pip Admiral to 2 Pip Admiral 3.) 2 Pip Admiral to 3 Pip Admiral
Uh, "One Pip Admiral?" What's that? Posted by Brown_supahero (Member # 83) on :
1 pip adm., isn't that a commodore? Don't they normally skip that rank, they only give that to old school's and make them desk jockeys.
Nemisis Tech.
Argo dune buggy, it's too high, thing will tip over, i'll never drive that shit.
Wesley, how did that punk come back?
Deck 29? probably uninhabital deck, about 5m high. Reman's moved up quick, its most likely they were on another deck when they engaged combat.
Ship names, i have a problem with the use of Nova and Valiant.
most of the other tech, i don't have a problem with.
Posted by Brown_supahero (Member # 83) on :
In response to the classification of the Soverign Class.
I think it is a Heavy Cruiser. Not stationary like a Galaxy, and not maneuverable as a Defiant.
Most likely designed for battle instead of exploring.
But compared to the Scimitar the Sovereign is no match. Fuck I would have booked it too.
Posted by Dat (Member # 302) on :
What's wrong with Nova and Valiant? Posted by Spike (Member # 322) on :
Nothing is wrong with those two vessels.
The new Valiant doesn't have the same registry as her predecessor.
The new Nova can't be the prototype of the Nova-class because the Equinox and the Rhode Island both have lower registries.
Posted by SoundEffect (Member # 926) on :
quote:Originally posted by Spike: The new Nova can't be the prototype of the Nova-class because the Equinox and the Rhode Island both have lower registries.
We've seen it happen before, so it's still possible. It's at least in the right range for the prototype. Construction could've been delayed causing its sister ships to be launched ahead of Nova.
USS Constellation is a lower number than USS Constitution.
Posted by Spike (Member # 322) on :
quote:USS Constellation is a lower number than USS Constitution.
Because she got her registry from people who knew nothing about registries.
Just another mistake of the Starfleet Bureau for Ship Painting. Like Brittain, Jenolin, and NX-59650.
Posted by Akira (Member # 850) on :
All you have to do is say that the Nova was the defiant testbed and underwnet refit to nova specs thus getting a higher reg that its sister ships.
like 2368 defiant testbed is started 2269 2 aditional frames are started as defiant class the defiant receave an change in design before complesion of the 2 space frames 2270 the nova testbed is started under the old defiant testbed 2271 the Rhode Island and ??? is comm. under nova class before the nova is Comm. 2272 Nova is finnaly comm. under nova specs. after its defiant testbed refit and given a reg.
Just an idea
Posted by Akira (Member # 850) on :
The prem. NX-59650 also could fall under this idea like the stargazer. She was given a Reg for Comm but found defective and refitted but with old hall number when she was stollen
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
Please, PLEASE use full words when you type! I have a hard time reading your posts!
Posted by Akira (Member # 850) on :
Sorry just tired and stupid today ill fix it shortly.
Again sorry
Posted by David Templar (Member # 580) on :
Or maybe the reg numbers don't really indicate ship chronology? *gets shot*
Posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov (Member # 742) on :
It was a "battle" group. You have a Galaxy, an Excelsior and other stuff that could fight the Romulans. So, a small Nova-class planetary explorer (you know, max. warp 8, small crew, not enough firepower to destroy a Pakled freighter), what would you do with such a ship? If I was in charge of the battle group, I'd send them home. No real use in a battle, but others would have to protect it because it's so vulnerable. Same reason why you wouldn't use an Oberth in such a fleet. Nova has to be a new ship.
EDIT: Here's the old image.
>Intrepid, Valiant, Galaxy, Aries, Nova, Hood, Archer, right? Did they really write Aires instead of Aries?
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Good points, but you forget that starfleet is run by the very same folks that sent the Bonestall- an Oberth class- out to die...er...fight the Borg at Wolf 359! The Nova could have really good sensors and mabye (likely) they were building a tachyon web to detect the Scimitar. 1.) Locate bad guy (s) 2.) Let capital ships engage enemy. 3.) Get the fuck out of town when the Scimitar destroys the entire "battle group". Posted by Proteus (Member # 212) on :
As Picard pointed out several times, he's an explorer, as such is his ship. We just see phasers and torpeedos more then scanners because... scanners are boring.
Posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov (Member # 742) on :
I think the battle group was more of a reinforcement for Picard than a "last line". If they really thought the Scimitar would be able to get to earth they would have sent everything they had, including Oberths and Runabouts and any other stuff availabe. The people at Wolf probably knew that there was not a good chance that they could defeat the cube. But every additional ship could buy them some minutes.
You could be right, maybe they were going to create a tachyon grid. But from "Redemption" we know that you need far more ships for such a grid to be effective. Furthermore, we could speculate that a tachyon grid would have been useless anyway since the Scimitar used a new type of cloaking device (fire while cloaked, I wonder where they got that from. At least Shinzon didn't quote Shakespere. )
Posted by Proteus (Member # 212) on :
It's Defensive Pattern Kirk Epsilon, and the MSD for the Ent-E does indeed look like its devided into 29 decks, but they seem uneven, the ones in the secondary hull appear to be offset from the ones in the saucer.
Additionally, it appears the Ent-E had the ability to detect taycon emmisions from cloaked ships by itself, as LaForge was doing before he stated "his cloak is perfect".
Posted by Dat (Member # 302) on :
Even of the Nova was the class ship and the entire fleet was ready or preparing for battle, I'd see no problem with the Nova being there. Perhaps Janeway told Starfleet what happened with the Equinox and so Starfleet understood that the Novas could take a pounding in battle and survive. It could even have led up to the refitted Novas like the alternate-future Rhode Island.
Posted by The359 (Member # 37) on :
It's possible not all Novas are explorers, the same that not all Mirandas are freighters obviously (ala Brattain).
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
I can't believe this argument is even going on. The Nova from NEM is clearly not the class ship of the Equinox and Rhode Island because of the registry. There's been plenty of time for something to happen to the Nova-class prototype and for it to have been replaced.
Who's got the film on VCD? Will someone please check the brief shot near the beginning of the stellar cartography scene where all the names and regs are shown in closeup? I'd like to be positively sure of all the NCCs. I'm pretty confidant that I saw the last digit of the Archer's as a 6, but it went by pretty fast...
Alas, the lines concerning both the Hemingway and the Talos were cut. But I think I'll leave them on my list for now, with that disclaimer in the annotations. After all, shooting scripts are just about canon as far as I'm concerned, (STIII's Intrepid) and deleted scenes most definitely are. (INS's Ticonderoga.) Since we can't tell for sure at the moment if either NEM line was filmed and scrapped or if they were simply dropped during scriopt revision, I'll give it the benefit of the doubt. If they cut an hour out of the film, these scenes were probably part of it.
Interesting shuttles/workbees in the spacedock at the end. They looked like they had kind of Steamrunner-ish catamarrans.
-MMoM Posted by Boris (Member # 713) on :
MMOM: You can't say that the Nova was clearly another ship, given the numerous instances of offbeat registry numbers.
Boris
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
The only instance we have EVER had of a class ship with a higher registry than any known member of her class is that of the U.S.S. Constitution.
And, needless to say, I'm not gonna touch that one with a sixteen-and-a-half-foot pole...
-MMoM Posted by Boris (Member # 713) on :
MMOM:
If Starfleet is so orderly, why does it allow such things as Relativity-G, Yamato-E, or Enterprise-A,B,C,D...not to mention the Yamato changing its registry number a few episodes later?
If Starfleet is so orderly, why does it allow Prometheus NX-59650?
If Starfleet is so orderly, why does it allow Sao Paulo 75633 -> Defiant 74205?
If Starfleet is so orderly, why does it allow Brattain to be misspelled into Brittain?
If Starfleet is so orderly, why does it allow the U.S.S. Nash, NCC-2010-B?
What probably happened is that the project was Nova-class development project with the U.S.S. Noble being a designated testbed that was never to be commissioned. Then, the Galaxy Replacement Project came along and took over the name, so Starfleet decided to commission the Noble first and hold back the Nova as the designated testbed. The Equinox's dedication plaque supposedly reads Noble-class, suggesting that the first ship commissioned was in fact the U.S.S. Noble.
A little time passes and the Nova-class Galaxy Replacement Project is abandoned. The Noble-class ships are now in service, and the poor Nova is just standing there doing nothing. Starfleet decides to commission the ship, gives it a current registry number, and renames the class Nova according to the testbed (it just couldn't get over the stolen name which sounds better than Noble). The stranded Equinox, on the other hand, retains the Noble-class designation.
Boris
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
Every point you note is an explicitly established fact that we cannot get arounf without inventing some kind of explanation. But this is not so with the NEM Nova. There's no reason to come up with some elaborate excuse for its registry, when in all likelyhood it WASN'T EVEN INTENDED TO BE THE NOVA-CLASS PROTOTYPE.
As you say, it wouldn't be unheard of for such a mishap to occur, but I cannot fathom why you would *want* to make this ship out to be one. If the Star Fleet Battle Group Omega display included class designations, and the Nova was listed as Nova-class, I'd be right alongside you coming up with a rationalization. But it's NOT. There's no logical reason for taking this ship, which is listed with only a number and not a class, and arbitrarily placing it in a class whose registry range it is well outside of. You're not making much sense.
-MMoM Posted by Siegfried (Member # 29) on :
The technology in the movie was okay. Only two things I had a problem with. The first is the giant pit to nowhere in the Enterprise. Looks like the writers and set designers took a page from Galaxy Quest on that one.
The other one is the mini-transporter unit. I find it darn near impossible to believe that they've managed to cram everything they need to make a one-person transporter unit into something so ridiculously small. And even if they did, how could the thing even work? The little sucker gets transported too, which would mean the emitter, pattern buffer, and transition coils would all be converted into a datastream themselves. Bleh.
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
Sulu: "Alright, now we've given them something else to shoot at."
While I doubt a Nova would have superior sensors to a Galaxy or Intrepid, they would probably be worth having around. Also, for all we know her crew was really smart at detecting cloaked ships, and weren't willing to give up as easily as Geordi "There's nothing I can do" LaForge. At the very least, she could run a delaying action while the bigger guns tried the firepower route. We know that a Nova is no match for an Intrepid, but a phaser beam is a phaser beam - given the shoot-to-detect gambit Picard used, they could have easily kept the Nova in reserve for just that. And as we know, a Nova can put up a stiff fight before she'd be salsaed.
Mark
Posted by Boris (Member # 713) on :
Have we ever seen an example of a ship being named after a current class?
Boris
Posted by Siegfried (Member # 29) on :
Not really, no. Some people think there have been new starships named Excelsior and Constellation since their mention in The Next Generation and Deep Space Nine, respectively, would put them well past their prime. However, nothing completely and irrefutably canon-wise has been given to say that those two were the original starships or not (aside from an off-the-record remark in the Encyclopedia and a Trek 'zine article).
Of course, there are those who think the Enterprise from Star Trek's II through VI was an Enterprise-class starship.
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
Siggy: Sternbach has suggested that within "deeper layers" of subspace, larger amounts of data and energy can be found or stored - this is the basis of potential increases in suspace communication range as outlined in the DS9 tech manual, which certainly applied to the Pathfinder mission's hyper-subspace technological advances later on. Assuming that a micro-quantum tunneling phenomenon (not unlike the slipstream drive) can "burrow" to a deep enough layer of subspace to act as a sufficent capacitor for a temporary matter stream accomodating one humanoid transportee, the buffer problem is thus solved. The machinery necesary to tap into and reconstruct/transmit the stream can be accounted for by quantum physics as well, given that one of the most prominent proprties of quanta is the ability to exist in multiple states - and multiple places - simultaneously, provided an outside observation is not made within normal 5-D space-time. Replication and the quantum technology could thus be combined with an adequate power source to effectively create a quantum-sustained micro-device with the ability to exist as a full-featured transporter in direct correlation with the amount of power the unit carries.
In short, the micro-transporter works just fine, as long as you don't look too closely at it.
Mark
Posted by Siegfried (Member # 29) on :
Mark, I hope you realize you just lost me after you said "Siggy."
I'll take your advice and not look at it too closely.
Posted by Boris (Member # 713) on :
As for the giant pit, they could've been on an upper level. It's fairly clear that deck numbers do not always equal level numbers.
Defiant: 4 levels, at least 5 decks Ent-A: ~21 levels, at least 78 decks Ent-E: 24 levels, at least 26 decks (FC). Ent-E: 24 levels, at least 29 decks (Nemesis). Enterprise: the deck letters in dialogue supposedly do not correspond to observed damage (I haven't seen the show so I can't verify).
There will be more examples. It's fairly clear that Starfleet's deck designations are more like addresses -- after all, if all you're doing is traveling by turbolift, what's the purpose of a regular system? It's easier to say Deck 78 than Deck 13, Section 5C.
In the future, the writers simply need to affirm this system by using deck numbers that are so high that no viewer can confuse them for level numbers (i.e. Deck 132 instead of Deck 4, section 6), with a few *carefully planned* references to "Level 5, Deck 78" or "Level 3, Deck 6", as well as a couple of hallways labeled "132..133" as we run along. This ought to clear up the confusion for any viewer.
BTW, Babylon 5 had the exact same problem, but they seem to have fixed it later on. In the early shows, they referred excessively to things like "Red 5, Level 3" or "Brown 7, Level 2", supposedly because the station was divided into discrete colored cylinders divided into 36 pie slices (10 degrees each). So you'd specify the sector color first, then the section, and then the level of the section.
After a while, we began to see Blue offices in the Garden and Brown areas all over the station (basically, wherever the story required them), with the obvious conclusion that the associated numbers couldn't stand for section numbers any more, or we'd have such cases as multiple Blue 5's all over the station.
Guess what -- starting with season 2, we lose the "level" and gain higher numbers after the color, resulting in Brown 95, Blue 95 and similar designations. The numbers sometimes correspond to levels, sometimes not -- they basically seem to be addresses distinguishing the Blue patch in the Garden from the Blue patch near the Zocalo.
Boris
Posted by Shipbuilder (Member # 69) on :
It looks like some folks are troubled by a few of the ships present (as far as types go) in the battle group. According to lines in the movie... the ships in the group were basically circling the wagons and not purposely heading to do battle with anyone. One of the lines spoken referred to "safety in numbers." Apparently all the ships in a given locale were diverted to rendevous with each other and stay grouped up just in case the Scimitar showed up to lay waste.....so with this in mind, you would most likely have ALL different kinds of ships, scouts, cruisers, explorers, etc., in this group. Calling the group a battle group was probably an indication that Starfleet expected trouble and was at a high alert level.
Posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov (Member # 742) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mark Nguyen: [...] Sternbach has suggested that within "deeper layers" of subspace, larger amounts of data and energy can be found or stored - this is the basis of potential increases in suspace communication range as outlined in the DS9 tech manual, which certainly applied to the Pathfinder mission's hyper-subspace technological advances later on. Assuming that a micro-quantum tunneling phenomenon (not unlike the slipstream drive) can "burrow" to a deep enough layer of subspace to act as a sufficent capacitor for a temporary matter stream accomodating one humanoid transportee, the buffer problem is thus solved. The machinery necesary to tap into and reconstruct/transmit the stream can be accounted for by quantum physics as well, given that one of the most prominent proprties of quanta is the ability to exist in multiple states - and multiple places - simultaneously, provided an outside observation is not made within normal 5-D space-time. Replication and the quantum technology could thus be combined with an adequate power source to effectively create a quantum-sustained micro-device with the ability to exist as a full-featured transporter in direct correlation with the amount of power the unit carries. [...]
Umm... Indeed. Posted by MrNeutron (Member # 524) on :
quote:Originally posted by Shipbuilder: [QB...the ships in the group were basically circling the wagons and not purposely heading to do battle with anyone.[/QB]
No wonder it didn't work. Circling the wagons is a Hollywood fabrication that never actually happened. Starfleet admirals would be better off not studying those "historical documents" called "Wagon Train". Posted by Shipbuilder (Member # 69) on :
Boris, I've seen this deck/level explanation of yours posted before and although creative...I just think its too far of a stretch to make up for mispoken deck numbers. Taking the E-D For example, the TNGTM specifically states that the primary hull has Decks 01 to 16 and the engineering hull has Decks 08 to 42, now are we supposed to assume that it is a complete coincidence that these Deck numbers correspond exactly with the number of your "levels" that are shown on the E-D's MSD?
The statements are located in the Internal Coordinate System section (2.2) and it clearly shows that the 2 digit deck numbers are unique identifiers. Starfleet already has an addressing system for their starships (at least fully detailed for the E-D) and it uses deck numbers as the lead identifiers. Granted, your theory makes up for mistakes made by the writers, but it just doesn't make logical sense.
Maybe we'll get lucky in a few years and get a Sovereign class TM in the ST mag...and just maybe by then they'll have it sorted out. Posted by Fleet-Admiral Michael T. Colorge (Member # 144) on :
I'm wondering if the battle group that the Enterprise-E was suppose to meet would have shown the USS Archer as an Akira Class... Oh and the USS Valiant's registry seems to correspond to the USS Sao Paulo.
Posted by SoundEffect (Member # 926) on :
The old Sao Paulo was NCC-75633, different from the 'new' Valiant's number.
The Archer's number is 44xxx so it's way too early a number for Akira Class ships. It's closer to, but later than, the second major batch of Excelsiors. It's an old ship to be sure.
Posted by Fleet-Admiral Michael T. Colorge (Member # 144) on :
So, the new Valiant could be still a Defiant Class.
Posted by SoundEffect (Member # 926) on :
The new Valiant could possibly even be another Sovereign Class.... Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
...Or any of a dozen currently-produced classes. Sad part is, we'll probably never know..
Mark
Posted by Fleet-Admiral Michael T. Colorge (Member # 144) on :
Damn bastard!!!
Posted by P0sitr0nic (Member # 553) on :
I believe by the time the crew caught up with the boarding party, they had gone up a few lwvels, and could the pit have possibly been the Warp Core containment shaft?
Posted by TheWoozle (Member # 929) on :
While it didn't look like the warp core shaft, that would be cool to see and much more likely then a generic bottomless pit.
Posted by Siegfried (Member # 29) on :
I had originally thought that maybe it was a elevator shaft that allowed rapid transport of spare parts from storage to those maintenance corridors. However, I had to dismiss the idea when I remembered that there was a catwalk spanning it.
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
The catwalk could be retractible... Plus, it could also be an unused storage area for something big, like a reserve warp core. Hey, Voyager had one...
Another option is that the shaft could hae been created by empty space between rooms. Earlier work has established that a starship's internal volume is not static - rooms are installed and removed around the internal skeleton, whether by construction or transporter-swapping. What we could have been seeing is the space created when smaller rooms (modular labs, storage bays, etc.)are installed into a space where larger rooms could be placed. The catwalk could be a removable thing that was meant to bridge the gaps between the J-tubes.
Mark
Posted by Fleet-Admiral Michael T. Colorge (Member # 144) on :
Well, why not just have the guy fall down from an upper cargo bay then?
Posted by StyroFoam Man (Member # 706) on :
quote:Originally posted by Fleet-Admiral Michael T. Colorge: Well, why not just have the guy fall down from an upper cargo bay then?
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